Do the World Eaters have any normal Chaos Marines?

[Phoebus]

Again, though, the defining 40k short story on Kharn shows that even the most Berzerkerish of the Berzerkers (Kharn) thinks in complex terms during battle, and fights as part of a larger tactical plan.

Berzerkers do what they do out of religious zeal and for the pleasure they receive when they kill. They venerate certain actions (killing, gaining skulls for the Skull Throne and blood for the Blood god), and they favor certain ways of carrying out said actions (intense close combat). Even though their mode is more challenging than the conventional means of battle (firearms from a distance) they don't seem to sacrifice common sense when going into battle. They accept the greater danger as part of their calling, but they still act in conjunction with other supporting assets (whose users they probably don't respect, but whatever).

m1acca1551 has it exactly right.

[Harwammer]

In the pics of the new codex so far, neither the World Eater bit, or Berzerker bit mentions that most hated and limiting line 'All World Eaters are Berzerkers...'

I take this as a good sign...

I think we need to remember that line was written when the definition of 'Berzerker' was a little less specific than a single unit with limited options.

Also, isn't 'The Butcher's Nail' that all World Eater's received a surgical implant rather than a simple lobotomy?

[prowla]

Also, isn't 'The Butcher's Nail' that all World Eater's received a surgical implant rather than a simple lobotomy?

It would have been pretty advanced form of psychosurgery and multiple surgical implants to recieve the desired effect, not the traditional "blind" lobotomy practiced on Earth during the early 20th century. I think the "lobotomy" part is a reference to having some bits of their brain altered, however in very exact and controlled manner.

I recall that in The Outcast Dead, the WE sergeant has the Butcher's Nails but is still able to - mostly - control himself. It was noted that the WE's greatest aspect was the mental discipline and self control, to allow them to go berserk but still able to focus their rage, and display almost graceful skill in battle despite it.

[Lothlanathorian]

Also, isn't 'The Butcher's Nail' that all World Eater's received a surgical implant rather than a simple lobotomy?

It's been that way for a lot longer than 'The Butcher's Nail' has been around. And, while not all Khorne devoted Marines are Berzerkers, all WE being Berzerkers works. Not all Berzerkers are WE, so this isn't really a huge issue. The surgical implants Angron had wired into all of his Legion turned their rage up to 11. While I don't have an issue with their being WE Havocs, I can't imagine them standing still and blasting away at the enemy would they could be closing that gap and beating things to death all nice and proper like.

[OgreBattle]

The problem is the Death Company are clearly frothing lunatics who can't do anything but kill

But they are Loyalists.

And you assume Chaos is going to be more Hardcore than Loyalists... but in this case, they aren't. Death Company are the guys who will anger themselves to death. Khorne Berzerkers are more a warrior with a ritual fighting style.

*on berserker havocs: Have you heard the term "going ape-****"? It refers to the practice of chimpanzees in captivity flinging poo at the objects of their scorn. So use of ranged attacks certainly fits with being a berzerker.

*on berzerker Drivers: Well that's obviously 'road rage', just imagine an angry soccer mom with a minivan filled with berzerkers, she will drive like a maniac to deliver them to the game on time.

[nosebiter]

Except they slaughtered an entire worlds population during the great crusade.

[Harwammer]

on berzerker Drivers: Well that's obviously 'road rage', just imagine an angry soccer mom with a minivan filled with berzerkers, she will drive like a maniac to deliver them to the game on time.

Sharon the Berserker!

[Sandlemad]

New CSM codex says that other warbands actively seek out surgeons and medicae who can perform the implantation of the Butcher's Nails or similar alterations, so there's the support for non-WE berzerkers. It notes that Abaddon can currently claim the most of these surgeons' allegiance besides those working for World Eater warbands.

There's also mention in the FW HH book of 'Rampagers', WE marines whose bodies and minds seem to have taken the implants particularly well. There's a rationale for different levels of ...berzerkness based on how well the surgery goes, as well as how devoted the marine is to the Blood God.

[Son of Morkai]

*on berzerker Drivers: Well that's obviously 'road rage', just imagine an angry soccer mom with a minivan filled with berzerkers, she will drive like a maniac to deliver them to the game on time.

Just gonna say, it shouldn't be that hard to replace a Rhino's tracks with massive chainblades. Chainrhino anyone?

[Lothlanathorian]

Who needs a chainsawsword or a chainsawax (what an ineresting lumberjack related redundancy) when you can have a CHAINSAWTANK!! The important part is replacing the horn so that, instead of honking, it fires electrified circular saw blades. Boosh.


I like the notion of other Warbands hiring out surgeons to install the rage-enhancing implants (I assume that, as of the HH story of the same title, these things are now called 'Butcher's Nails'?). I very much look forward to reading the new Codex, that's for sure.

[Col. Tartleton]

The Butcher's Nails amplify their aggression, but that doesn't mean they can't control themselves at all. They can and they must.

The beserker is ultimately a nihilist. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. Be it his followers or their foes. A Beserker is as eager to die in battle as he is to reap a tally for Khorne.

It's as much an honor to lose your skull for Khorne as it is to take a skull. In Wrath of Kharn one of Kharn's disciples decapitates himself as he falls, offering his skull to Khorne as his final act. Kharn also IIRC makes a point of decapitating his wounded comrades so that they too can join the skull throne forever. Being killed in the name of Khorne is the best death a man can hope for. In such a frame of mind the slaughter is a beautiful thing.

Better to die for Khorne than to live for yourself. Or was that the Emperor...

Naturally of course the Beserker understands that keeping himself alive will provide Khorne with more blood and thus some thought must go towards self preservation.

So the guiding principle of the Beserker is to walk the eight fold path, ritually purify himself with violence, remove the useless flesh from his face, sharpen his teeth to razors, adorn himself with bronze and bone, bathe in the blood of his enemies, and become as death, the eater of worlds...

A World Eater is better described as disturbingly eccentric. Crazy isn't the right word. They just have a different set of motivations.

[Murphey]

I honestly hate the current fluff about Berserkers being brain damaged lobotomy patients.

Seriously, can't the overwhelming bloodlust of a god of rage be enough to inspire these guys? I always preffered the "their rage allows them to transcend mortal limitations" take on the Berserkers. In some of the fluff, they rip tanks apart with their chainaxes and can scream in space. Moreover, they can make other people hear those screams of rage in total vacuum, because their rage resonates in the warp so strongly that other's hear it in their souls.

Or, you know, lobotomy patients.

(Sigh)

[thedigitalflip]

Not all bezerkers are World Eaters, so i feel that some of them are just crazy with bloodlust, which seems to be a common side effect of worshiping Khrone.

[Phoebus]

I believe Col. Tarleton put it best.

[Jonny Draigo]

I just had the funniest darn mental image. Two berserkers, chainaxes mag-locked on their backpacks, going around the neighborhood, knocking on doors, asking people "Good day, sir, do you have a minute to talk about the Blood God?", "Would you mind contributing towards building a new Skull Throne in your neighborhood?" and "Have you let Khorne into your life yet?"

That sounds much more like a Word Bearers, Jehova witnesses of the 40k universe

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Next codex:
-BerSluggas
-BerShootas
-Ber-Raptors
-BerDrivas
-Ber-Repair-Folk

etc..

[Excessus]

'Every member of the World Eaters Legion is a Beserker, although not every Beserker originates from that Legion.'
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 ed.), pg.29

Welcome to 6th edition! That piece of fluff is from a very outdated source. Here is a new description from a much much much more recent source:

Notice the part where it says "rites they still impart to those they consider worthy to this day.", and how there then must be some that are not worthy yet?

I'd say that there are heaps of "normal" marines in WE warbands who are more than eager to prove their martial powers in war, they most likely all strive for berzerkerness(and/or beyond) at the end of the line...

[Phoebus]

I'm not sure that the new description proves that. I think one could just as easily argue that the 6E quote is referring to non-World Eaters being afforded the privilege.

[Fizzy]

Except they slaughtered an entire worlds population during the great crusade.

Yes but it was not the WE's choice. Angron ordered them to. And they follow their primarchs order.

Otherwise they would have followed Horus will about tactics and so on.

[Excessus]

I'm not sure that the new description proves that. I think one could just as easily argue that the 6E quote is referring to non-World Eaters being afforded the privilege.

How would the WE know that they were worthy if they weren't fighting together? Did they hear a rumour? Was he vouched for by some random lord? I don't think they'd settle for that, I think they'd need to see the devotion and slaughter up front before they did anything like installing nails in him...

World Eaters are religious nutters whose religion is bloodshed, you don't just show up on the doorstep at a church and get promoted to a cleric...there would be years of "going to mass", "textreading" and "singing hymns"(exchange those three for more WE-oriented stuff) before you would even beconsidered for a higher service...