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Thread: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

  1. #21
    Chapter Master Gaargod's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Klobb_Maniac View Post
    Space Wolves are Versatile; so they're bad. <= End of that debate.

    Well, technically Space Wolves are on the other side of the fine line. They are as good as normal marines in shooting (although have no heavy options in return for more special, not a big hardship) but are better in combat too. For free (well, actually cheaper!).

    Technically, Haravikk could have phrased it slightly better by talking about Jack of All Trades, Master of None. Which is what a dread with one ranged weapon and one melee weapon is - it's mediocre at range and mediocre in combat (although that combat massively depends on who you're fighting, to be fair. Against some targets, dreads are nightmares, but against others they're short-term tarpits or even just puppy-chow). Whereas Space Wolves are Masters of All fricking Trades (for the price, that is).
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  2. #22
    Chapter Master Max_Killfactor's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by duffybear1988 View Post
    Well don't forget that the dreadnought is much cooler looking than the dinobot. Also it has a much smaller footprint so it's easier to get cover saves.
    I believe the fiends have a 5+ invulnerable save though.

    I plan on trying both, but I ran MM/CCW dreads with the last book too because I'm crazy. I think I'm going to keep them because they are cheap and I like dreads. The dreads will move up and support my squads, while the fiends will sit back and shoot the AV 12 and under. Dragons will fly around and look dumb. It will be glorious.
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  3. #23
    Brother Sergeant timff8's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    I've been combing through this and another thread I started on Bolter&Chainsword, and I think that I'll be running my Hellbrutes with a MM/CCW and a Heavy Flamer (built in melta if they can take one?). Reasoning being that a Hellbrute is the only unit that can run around with a MM in the chaos codex, so that does give it a role that Havoks and Forgefeinds can't fill. Basically, I'll be playing it like a Land Speeder, but with MoNurgle instead of a Jink save. There are other units in the Chaos book that can (and do) bring melta and can DS, but no ther unit gets a MM/HF for cheap, so at least that's something. Still wish they could pod, though.

  4. #24
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaargod View Post
    Well, technically Space Wolves are on the other side of the fine line. They are as good as normal marines in shooting (although have no heavy options in return for more special, not a big hardship) but are better in combat too. For free (well, actually cheaper!).

    Technically, Haravikk could have phrased it slightly better by talking about Jack of All Trades, Master of None. Which is what a dread with one ranged weapon and one melee weapon is - it's mediocre at range and mediocre in combat (although that combat massively depends on who you're fighting, to be fair. Against some targets, dreads are nightmares, but against others they're short-term tarpits or even just puppy-chow). Whereas Space Wolves are Masters of All fricking Trades (for the price, that is).
    I don't know. They don't work as assault specialists at that price and MEQ are always mediocre at shooting power for the cost; or they were. Necron Warriors and new CSM (standard marines) are both very close to Shoota capability. But still, IG, Shootas, Devilgaunts, Firewarriors, Kroot, and i'm sure more I'm not mentioning all beat out Grey Hunters and their bretheren in the shooting *power.* Basically Grey Hunters are similar to Shootas in effectiveness and being all-rounders, but neither of them can do either role at top of their class. This is why i point them out. A dread can be reasonable at both CC and Shooting. Rifle-dreads are top of their class shooters; 'tis why they're spammed. A mixed dread is half of that and a little bit of CC ness. Add in the cheapo heavy flamer option and the double-tap option and they seem pretty nifty.

  5. #25
    Chaplain bobafett_h's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    I am personally intending on using my Dark Vengeance Helbrute as is (with the Multi-melta and Fist) then sticking it in a Dreadclaw and dropping it where needed. Luckily people in my gaming group are more than happy to use Imperial Armour units, so it won't be an issue for me at all.

    As for my older Forge World, World Eaters dread, I am really not sure what to do with it. I bought it back before 4th edition when it was still the Chaos 3.5 Codex so I only got plasma cannon, lascannon, left missile launcher and left CCW arms. I will try it out with a Plasma Cannon and CCW, but am really going to need to get more of the arms for it.

    Regardless, the improvements to the Crazed rules certainly make them usable again. I particularly like how it now seems like revenge against whoever caused damage to it rather than simply being so crazy to the point of blowing up your own units. Despite the addition of the Fiends which seem to specialise at certain things better than Dreads/Helbrutes can, I can still see that there is a place for them and we will actually see them used in games again.
    Last edited by bobafett_h; 26-09-2012 at 23:40.
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  6. #26
    Chapter Master Fizzy's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobafett_h View Post
    I am personally intending on using my Dark Vengeance Helbrute as is (with the Multi-melta and Fist) then sticking it in a Dreadclaw and dropping it where needed. Luckily people in my gaming group are more than happy to use Imperial Armour units, so it won't be an issue for me at all.
    .
    As I stated earlier that is the best use and people should not complain about the dreadclaw since SM got a drop pod.
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  7. #27
    Brother Sergeant timff8's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Can you get the rules for the Dreadclaw without buy an Imperial Armor book? I'd love to use them, but I'm not made of money here. Are they on the Forgeworld site anywhere?

  8. #28
    Brother Sergeant timff8's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    I'd just rather not use Forgeworld stuff is all. I mean, I know TECHNICALLY they're legal, but it's the sort of thing that a person might not agree to play with you if you bring out. It's also the sort of thing that your FLGS manager, even at a GW, might ban from tournaments for no apparent reason. I'll download the rules I guess, but I'd still rather not use them.

  9. #29

    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by timff8 View Post
    I'd just rather not use Forgeworld stuff is all. I mean, I know TECHNICALLY they're legal, but it's the sort of thing that a person might not agree to play with you if you bring out. It's also the sort of thing that your FLGS manager, even at a GW, might ban from tournaments for no apparent reason. I'll download the rules I guess, but I'd still rather not use them.
    Please don't bring up the forgeworld debate again

  10. #30
    Chapter Master Haravikk's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaargod View Post
    it's mediocre at range and mediocre in combat
    Still, I don't think that's a bad thing; you can't expect an all-rounder to be just as good as two specialists that are individually more expensive! Sure the Space Wolves get this, but I don't think anyone's arguing that they were GW's finest hour
    I think on balance, going by the White Dwarf battle report list and guesswork, it'll probably work out fairly even, with the Hellbrute giving a decent stab at each role, though it'll probably shine if you get it to do a bit of both; equip it for the shooting you need it to do, then charge it headlong at something that could do with the extra muscle against it, and you don't think you can go far wrong. The tricky bit is really dropping it into the right location, after that I'm sure it'll pull its weight just fine.

    With both fiends, a little strangely, in Heavy Support the option of taking something decently flexible isn't a bad one; maybe there'll be cheesier ones, but assuming the Hellbrute gets 3 Hull Points (since it does in Dark Vengeance) it's going to be one of the more durable walkers anyway, even when overshadowed by the more costly fiends. Plus I expect there will be some upgrades we're not yet aware of, which will hopefully make it decently tailorable; anything that gives extra attacks could tip the scales towards being more of a threat in close combat.

  11. #31

    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    I would like them to retain their crazy person rule... load em up in a dread claw drop em off. Fail the crazy test an hilarity ensues.

  12. #32

    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    I will be using mine in pairs, one with a Plasma cannon, and one with a missile launcher/Lasscannon, the thing people seem to forget is that they need cover, and I usually run a landraider or sometimes 2 with heavy melee, this means that the Dreads will get ignored for the first two turns for the most part, and if you stick a dread in the back of your army in 4+ cover I think they will be very viable, they are good for supporting your babysitting units as they have both a fair bit of fire power, and they are quite strong Melee fighters, I assume that with a single PF they will have 3 attacks like they used to Dark Vengeance seems to suggest that will be the case. Also new Crazed is way better.


    One way or another I will be using mine often as I have three, the Hell Brute, a Black legion FW one,and a World Eaters FW one, I love them all.

    Also not sure why you seem to think there are only two viable builds for them, I have always thought that the Plasma cannon was a great choice for them.

  13. #33
    Brother Sergeant timff8's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    @Haravikk:
    The issue is that Space Wolves are hardly the only army with units with duality like that. Though they are one of the only two armies with broken units that can do any role (O hai GK, you're here too).
    Chaos have plenty of units that have duality: Obliterators, Havoks, Plague Marines, Terminators, basically all the best units from the last book. That's why the Hellbrute is in a tough spot; it has to compete with them. It doesn't necessarily have to compete with Oblits, but only because Hellbrutes add to your mech saturation, but just within elites you're in a tough spot competing with terminators and cult units. You can move one cult unit to Troops but there are still two other good ones (anything but TSons are good).

  14. #34

    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    What to do with Helbrute? That's easy
    http://imageshack.us/a/img600/2243/csmx.jpg
    I guess Helbrute "head" can be also attached to Heldrake for those who do not like dragon form and would like to have a mutated Hell Talon with its pilot merged with daemon-machine.

  15. #35

    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    That is an interesting conversion but I dont think I like it more than the standard ones... The head just looks silly small

  16. #36
    Brother Sergeant timff8's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Ha ha nice conversion. I'm using the melee arm as a conversion for a Forgefiend counts-as project.

  17. #37
    Great conversion! I really like that!

  18. #38
    Veteran Sergeant EvilFuzzyDoom's Avatar
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    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurgling Chieftain View Post
    The rumoured price of the Forgefiend has been all over the map, but the latest I read said it's like 200 points fully equipped. I think that's too high to replace standard walkers.
    This is confirmed in the WD battle report. Maulerfiend is a bit cheaper.
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  19. #39

    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    It might also depend on the respective close combat weapons.

    "Hellbrutes" can now have Thunder Hammers and a Power Scourge that actually does something special - they might make a combat dread useful.

  20. #40

    Re: What to Do with Hellbrutes?

    i love dreads, visually probably my favourite pieces in the game and even if they are sub par i'll include them. i got 2 brutes in DV set which ive gone to town on nurgling them up and by gum i'll use them. probably go for plasma cannons just because i likes em and fists because thats what ive converted them with

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