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Thread: Barbarians at the Gates

  1. #21
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidal View Post
    the early Eldar fought them with spears and javalins didn't they?)
    They were however very advanced high-tech spears and javelins, not so much the kind of pole-arms you're used to, but energy/laser/power/phase spears that skewered through reality to get at enemies in cover, or mind-seeking laser-guided warp-travelling javelins with dark-matter implosion warheads. Or something like that. They also had the support of early wraith-constructs and the Talismans of Vaul.

  2. #22
    Chapter Master Stonerhino's Avatar
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDungen View Post
    Techonlogy is just the study of how to do things. Which means its a matter of knowledge, the old ones knew things the necrotyr didn't thus they were more advanced.
    That's fine believe that if you wish. It does not change:

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldcron codex page 24
    [Snip]The Necrontyr could never win. Their superior technology was constantly outmanoeuvred by the Old Ones thanks to their mastery of the webway portals.
    So by your own ideas of what counts as technonlogy the Necrontyr were still superior. The Old Ones just a faster means of transportation.

  3. #23
    I'm not sure they would have had high tech spears at the beginning. I get the impression the Eldar were young during the Necron domination, which was after they did the bio transference. They likely developed from primitive savages to a space-faring race during the time of the conflict. They would have been used by their 'allies' in the old ones early on but eventually developed over time.
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  4. #24
    Archanist Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    Copy/Paste:

    According to Inquisitor Horst recounting the tale of how the Eldar fought against the Void Dragon during the War in Heaven - 'These events occured aeons before the Eldar had mastered such things [plasma weaponry]. They fought with swords, spears and their own twisted version of faith. And it was found wanting' ('The Cripple and the Dragon' in 'Translations of Pretinent Eldar Mythic Cycles', in White Dwarf 273, pg.29).

    Of course, they 'cheated' somewhat in the account, with their god(s) granting them access to the Talismans of Vaul, Swords of Khaine, and [presumed] wraith technology.


    The Eldar didn't spend the whole of the War in Heaven with such a technology level though - the description of Zapennec (Codex: Necrons (5th ed.), pg.16) shows that the Eldar had a sizeable fleet towards the end of the War, and 'Kal Jericho: Above and Beyond' in Warhammer Monthly #67 features a picture of War in Heaven -era Eldar wearing armour and wielding weapons which don't look too dissimilar to 'present day' kit (although the image might not be accurate; it could be Inquisitor Orechiel's imaginings of the scene).
    Last edited by Lord Damocles; 06-10-2012 at 08:14.
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  5. #25

    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    Copy/Paste:

    According to Inquisitor Horst recounting the tale of how the Eldar fought against the Void Dragon during the War in Heaven - 'These events occured aeons before the Eldar had mastered such things [plasma weaponry]. They fought with swords, spears and their own twisted version of faith. And it was found wanting' ('The Cripple and the Dragon' in 'Translations of Pretinent Eldar Mythic Cycles', in White Dwarf 273, pg.29).

    Of course, they 'cheated' somewhat in the account, with their god(s) granting them access to the Talismans of Vaul, Swords of Khaine, and [presumed] wraith technology.

    The Eldar didn't spend the whole of the War in Heaven with such a technology level though - the description of Zapennec (Codex: Necrons (5th ed.), pg.16) shows that the Eldar had a sizeable fleet towards the end of the War, and 'Kal Jericho: Above and Beyond' in Warhammer Monthly #67 features a picture of War in Heaven -era Eldar wearing armour and wielding weapons which don't look too dissimilar to 'present day' kit (although the image might not be accurate; it could be Inquisitor Orechiel's imaginings of the scene).
    Got a picture of that by any chance?

  6. #26
    Archanist Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    As a matter of fact, I do.

    From Warhammer Monthly #67

    (I don't know if the cropped version will make them any clearer)
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  7. #27

    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidal View Post
    Just as the Orks are sort of the barbarians at the gates of civilisation now (in a manner), did the Necrontyr (or were they Necron by then?) regard the Eldar as similar? (as they would be, in comparison, a collection of barbarian tribes with primitive technology; the early Eldar fought them with spears and javalins didn't they?)
    The concept of barbarians at the gates might be fitting, but note that barbarians aren't always savages. The ones who were about to invade Rome were quite civilized, it's just that the Roman depicted them as savages.
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  8. #28
    Chapter Master Stonerhino's Avatar
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    True but they had an "Inferior1" civilization. Except for maybe Carthage and Greece.

    1: By "inferior" I mean less advanced technology, socially, culturally and application of knowledge. For example having the knowledge of how to build a paved road is worthless unless you actually make paved roads. At least at some point.

    Which is why after the fall of Rome. The other cultures were unable to continue the advancements that Rome had. Literacy rate dropped to almost nothing, the construct all but stopped and the huge empire split apart (Just looking at the western empire). Bad leadership already had The Roman Empire falling apart.

  9. #29

    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    It's quite well established and common knowledge that the Necrontyr were masters of the immaterium (i.e. technology), the Old Ones were masters of the matterium (i.e. psychics), and the Eldar are somewhat in between.
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  10. #30
    Chapter Master innerwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Standing View Post
    It's quite well established and common knowledge that the Necrontyr were masters of the immaterium (i.e. technology), the Old Ones were masters of the matterium (i.e. psychics), and the Eldar are somewhat in between.
    Don't you mean the other way round? Inmaterium=psychics and "Materium"=technology?
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  11. #31

    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    Yes, yes I do.
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  12. #32
    Chapter Master TheDungen's Avatar
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    which brings me back to the likeness with newtonian physics and relativistic physics.

  13. #33
    Chapter Master Stonerhino's Avatar
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    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    And the Necrontyr was still had superior "Technology".

  14. #34

    Re: Barbarians at the Gates

    I don't really like the separation of the two like that. The Warp is a naturally occurring phenomenon in the 40k universe, and is a pretty unified thing. I like that Mat Ward made the Necrons based around it more, relying on sleeper ships but the scale having a large empire makes no sense, when communication would take 1000 or so years when they are far apart; separate enclaves would have made more sense then.

    Actually, if the Necrons (before the Burning one taught them Dolmen gates) used something like the Tau did from reverse engineering something a sleeper ship found to expand, that would be cool (with a sort of echoing impact).
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