Gents,
As the title says I'm looking for some input on how nids seem to be affected by 6th ed. I'm considering getting a nid army on ebay consisting of both shooting and CC units (several MCs included), but have the impression that nids were not as "fun" in the last edition.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
nids seem to have drawn the short straw this eddition- the inablitly to take allys, the inablitly to man fortifications effectively plus the additional power that shooting has over CC generally means they have lost out- you can still have a fun game if your local players are more for 'fun' rather than top end commeptative but they are cetranly in the bottom end of the power spectrum for power lists
Originally Posted by Walgis
Nids are far from useless. Things like the trygon are very effective, and poison horms can glance vehicles to death.
That said, they are far from hugely effective, and will remain so for what may be the entirety of this edition. Very limited AA in a flyer-strong game, a high reliance on CC with no assault grenades an edition which really punishes this. The codex seems dated, even though it is one of the more recent ones.
Nids are fun, but you'll be relying on luck more so than others in order to win, and have very limited options if you want to be particularly effective.
Nids can be incredible if played right. MC biomancy spam is deadly. Warp speed, iron arm, haemorrhage and enfeeble? Definitely a potent combo
In 5th they couldn't hurt vehicles. In 6th they can't hurt flyers. They lost assault after outflank but gained access to some good psychic powers. Feed is better now. It's six of one and half a dozen of the other.
I have been at 2 tournaments for 6th so far, with mainly very competetive tournament junkies taking part (some have travelled over 350 miles) and Nids did really well. I wouldn't write them off as it seems to be the consensus here. If used properly they can be very scary.
I would have thought the return to true fearlessness for synapse would be a huge boost to Tyranids, more than any other army. Wasn't that the big complaint in 5th?
... and then I won.
Dammit, I knew I'd forgotten to list a major one. Not taking extra wounds for fearlessness is a boost for nids. But with all the other changes I still say it's a wash.
6th edition is a mixed bag for Tyranids. Some of the changes really help. Others really hurt. Tyranids are still an army that will struggle in competitive settings but some different reasons than 5th.
Positives
-Monstrous Creatures have gotten better. Easier to grab cover. Fear, though it can't be relied on, can be useful. Smash is great for killing Multiwound models.
-Less vehicle spam and more boots on the ground means Tyranid shooting (which is mostly geared toward anti infantry) has gotten more effective.
-Non Flyer Vehicles are a bit easier to deal with.
-Being Fearless is now actually a good thing again. "No Retreat" wounds from loosing a close combat are a thing of the past. Big broods of Gaunts/Gants/Goyles can be great tarpits.
-Ymgarls, as one of the few units that can assault from reserve, have gotten more valuable.
-Biomancy can be truly frightening on a Tyranid MC.
-Boneswords are one of the few CC weapons in the game that flat out ignore armor saves.
Negatives:
-No assault grenades hurt in 5th. It's even worse now in 6th. Not only are we striking at I 1 but we are also taking Overwatch fire on the way in.
-No reliable way to deal with enemy fliers other than 260pt (at least) Flying Hive Tyrants that can fall out of the sky if they are nicked by a lasgun, or have a flashlight shone at them. (same thing maybe?)
-Close combat, though still deadly as ever, is harder to get to. Tyranids are slower overall (no more Run + Charge via Fleet), cover is reduced to 5+, and Overwatch can hurt and/or deny you a crucial charge.
-Tyrants, Fexes, T-fexes still horribly over costed.
-No access to allies makes sense fluff-wise, but causes us to lack a major advantage that every other army has.
-No assaulting from Outflank really hurt Genestealers and has made the Hive Commander upgrade borderline useless.
I'd say power-wise, Tyranids are about where we were at the end of 5th. Can be a fun army to play in non-competitive settings, but will struggle in tourneys. Dark Eldar and Grey Knights still eat our lunch.
Last edited by Megad00mer; 18-10-2012 at 13:50.
The changes to fearless and the ease with which tanks are ripped apart in CC are both huge buffs for nids. The new challenge rules can also prove useful for MC anxious to avoid power fists. However the reduction to cover saves and ability to focus fire stuff out of cover makes them even more fragile, especially swarms. Dealing with flyers is also an issue.
I've been having a lot of fun with my nids and my impression is that they are overall actually a fair bit better than in 5th. You can certainly have fun with them, but probably not if your opponent is using flyer spam. Although that isn't actually fun to face with any army, just most other armies deal with it better.
I think the no allies thing with Tyranids is a travesty. I mean it isn't like they adhered to fluff with some of the battle brother/allies. Tyranids could even have allies if you played them as genestealer cult fifth columnists. Hell then they could ally with just about anyone save necrons or daemons.
Ive fought against them pretty often and they seem to do quite well especially with Biomancy buffing the MCs. Flyrants seem to be the best against flyers with the TL devourers but can be grounded but Ive found grounding them is a lot harder than it sounds as you need to hit them first and you only make 1 grounding test per unit that hits you not per shot.
We got an army wide boost (Fearless, hull points, Smash, just to name a few) in exchange for the only really viable tactic we had (deep strike/outflank surge). Right now, genestealers are too fragile to last a turn of shooting and still be killy, so the only really good troops choice we have is devilgaunts or tervigons, which is a huge drag for me.
1222. It's a stranglehold. Not an Ogryn neck pinch.
1395. Eldar really hate it when you greet them with "Live long and prosper".
1537. My Rogue Trader does not need to announce his arrival with eight hours of orbital bombardment.
1572. The Navigator has Warp Sight. Not Insane-o-Vision.
1594. Flak armor is not just a muscle shirt with the word "ARMOR" stenciled on it.
Has anyone ever tried a Nid army that is filled to the max with cheap troops with synapse in the unit (I don't know if possible). I played a guy with a list like this and he had so many models that I couldn't kill them all with all my shooting. I was wondering if anyone has had sucess with this type of army?
The same fundemental problem of 5th edition exists. Namely, the closest thing to a competitive build is Tervigon spam but that autodies to JotWW, which is extremely common in competitive play. The flyers are actually a non issue, because there is almost no build that can be broomed fromt he table by cron flyspam and thats the version that racks up the most shooting kills per point. The psychic toys and fearless changes were the biggest boosts they got, but the core issues of the book remain and make it the same one dimensional army book it was before.
the no allies thing was a big screw up for us, since alot of tournaments wont run 2000 point games to alow us to get a secound force org. going to tournys to see GK/DA and CSM/DoC really sucks for my nids. I have started to try to run large swarms of gaunts/venomgaunts and they do work, just watch out for your support units and MC's or your troops will just get stuck.
Played two 6th edition games involving nids. Once against an ig/space wolves alliance and once in an unholy alliance with ig against space wolves/eldar.
We found that they really suffer in 6th. Especially if you play them close combat style. Hormagaunts must be among the most overpriced troops in the entire game. Sadly.
I have played against a guy who spammed gaunts both kinds and Tervigons I have never faced a more difficult army. My guard couldn't kill enough of them before they hit my lines and my orks couldn't kill enough of them in combat before I was wipped out.
Yes they cannot deal with flyers. So what. Flyers are not that great yes they are hard to hit but nids like orks have the key and that is weight of fire. Which is key for bring in down these machines.
Just to let you know I am Dyslexic.
This means that some of my spelling and grammer will be incorrect.
Thanks
Or as Balerion put it,
Oh, wow. You are to language what a Hive Fleet is to biological matter and DNA. Realigning, recombining, amalgamating, recreating... perfecting.
Are you serious? Toxin sac Hormagaunts are one of the best cc units in the game for their points. At half a space marine, you strike before them (I5), wound everything on 4's (so long daemon princes) and re-roll 1's to hit. Oh and 3 attacks on the charge, 4 if you let them out of synapse. Oh and they have fleet. I never leave home without them.
People who think there's no good way to die have obviously never heard the phrase 'Drug-fuelled-sex-heart attack'.
My norse dwarfs
Hive Fleet Colossus (zoats!)
agree, venomgaunts are great. took out a 5 man unit of Blood crushers with a unit of 20 and they killed them without even losing half of my unit.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
wyvirn