Viability of Horus Heresy Lists against normal

[TheSultanofBillGates]

Having recently picked up Betrayal, I can't see any problem, at all, with playing a game against a 30k army using a 40k army. I can't think of anything in the book that is any more abusive than anything in any of the existing codices.

That said, would you be willing to play against a Horus Heresy list with your normal list in a tournament or a pick-up game, or at all?

[Grimbad]

I can't think of anything in the book that is any more abusive than anything in any of the existing codices.

I think they should be separated but I don't think it has anything to do with abuse or imbalance.

[Charistoph]

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Unless the TO says otherwise before hand, its fair game. As for a non-tournament game, why not? While my meta here has a good selection of forces, anything new and different is always welcome. One should always be prepared to face a new list, whether it is from a new codex, or someone bringing a new approach on a more classical style. It keeps the game fresh, and my mind flexible.

[Battleworthy Arts]

Is there any intent mentioned in the book about mixing 30k and 40k?

Surely with warpstorms and such, just about anything CAN be explained... will we be seeing a glut of 30k marine armies?

[Memnos]

Is there any intent mentioned in the book about mixing 30k and 40k?

Surely with warpstorms and such, just about anything CAN be explained... will we be seeing a glut of 30k marine armies?

I certainly hope so. Heck - I'd love it if Games Workshop did a storyline invasion of Ultramar and ended up with the stasis field holding Guilliman being destroyed.

And then the G-man waking up.

Expect that SOMEONE is getting their backsides handed to them at that point.

[Khornies & milk]

My group allow any army/list to be fielded, end of story. Grow some cajones and deal with the challenge is our Mission Statement.

[Vaktathi]

The big issue is that the lists utilize a non-standard FoC chart and are designed really for a sweet spot of ~2500pt games, so they're a bit wonky, with some things being relatively better or worse in 1500/1750pt games than in 2500pt games.

Overall though, I wouldn't mind playing against it with a normal list.

[nosebiter]

Use the army with the std foc chart. Sais so in the book to do so under 2000 points.

The list isn't overpowered at all. Yes there are some new cool toys and options, but the stuff in the list are really expensive.

[Khornies & milk]

The big issue is that the lists utilize a non-standard FoC chart and are designed really for a sweet spot of ~2500pt games, so they're a bit wonky, with some things being relatively better or worse in 1500/1750pt games than in 2500pt games.

Agreed! The gamer goes into the game with open eyes though, so knows what to expect - or should know anyhow.

Use the army with the std foc chart. Sais so in the book to do so under 2000 points.

The list isn't overpowered at all. Yes there are some new cool toys and options, but the stuff in the list are really expensive.

Aiiieee, that's for sure. There's a third of my group building HH armies, so 5 guys, and all our lists are built to 3K minimum so mucho expensive

[spaint2k]

I certainly hope so. Heck - I'd love it if Games Workshop did a storyline invasion of Ultramar and ended up with the stasis field holding Guilliman being destroyed.

And then the G-man waking up.

And then he drops dead from the unhealed wounds he has.

[Endobai]

Perfectly viable.

Probably weaker than the vanilla SM list, but it depends how many points are used. Still seems one of the most balanced lists in Warhammer 30/40k.


Noone forces you to take super-heavies or a Primarch and what is left is hardly OP.

[TheSultanofBillGates]

You can't take super heavies or Primarchs at less than 2000 points.

And, unless I am mistaken, at 2000 points the 30k lists do NOT get the double force orgs that "normal" lists now get, so that actually puts them at a bit of a disadvantage with respect to bringing the cheese, in my opinion.

I'd much rather face Angron or Horus, as a quarter of my enemy's list, than 6 Vendettas or Night Scythes or or or or... all the other crap you can build these days.

Primarchs are seem quite a bit overpriced for the impact they have on the game.

[SideshowLucifer]

Noone around here allows anything from forge world to be played outside of their specific genere (apoc, and heresy).

[TheSultanofBillGates]

Sounds like a sad place to play.

[SideshowLucifer]

It's been that way in the 4 states I have played in in the U.S. For some reason, forgeworld is a no-go.

[de Selby]

Although I'm not too keen on playing with Primarchs (like playing with C'tan, if they're anything less than unstoppable it's unsatisfying, and if they are unstoppable it's not a game), I'd play against a Legion list any time. I actually really like what they've done (apparently, I don't have the book) with rearranging the troops into big bolter armed squads and specialists, it's an elegant way to make them very different to Codex marines without much effort.

[Azulthar]

It's been that way in the 4 states I have played in in the U.S. For some reason, forgeworld is a no-go.

Same here (well, not the four states, as I'm from Europe). Very surprised by the poll results.

[Chapters Unwritten]

I might play it occasionally but I want to play the "real" game, for lack of a better word.

I don't really care about power level, I don't really care about the fluff awkwardness of a 40k army versus a 30k army. I just like to play the stuff that is part of the core. Forgeworld, to me, is on the fringe of that.

I personally believe it is a pitifully small slice of the fanbase, at least in my area. We opted to allow FW at our last tournament and no one took any. It's just not a big deal. To me FW is like, a novelty army. Playing it, to me, is akin to playing some guy's homebrew.

[logan054]

I might play it occasionally but I want to play the "real" game, for lack of a better word............. Playing it, to me, is akin to playing some guy's homebrew.

Oh dear, I feel very sorry for you, I really do.

I don't see the issue with using them against 40k armies, I thought eldar and orks are about back then? have they really changed that much since then? its doubtful.

[Charistoph]

I might play it occasionally but I want to play the "real" game, for lack of a better word.

I don't really care about power level, I don't really care about the fluff awkwardness of a 40k army versus a 30k army. I just like to play the stuff that is part of the core. Forgeworld, to me, is on the fringe of that.

I personally believe it is a pitifully small slice of the fanbase, at least in my area. We opted to allow FW at our last tournament and no one took any. It's just not a big deal. To me FW is like, a novelty army. Playing it, to me, is akin to playing some guy's homebrew.

Interestingly enough, Games Workshop is making efforts (on the corporate level) for their customers to recognize the Forgeworld lines to be as much main stream as any of the regular 40K/Fantasy books and Citadel models. The 40K Stamp, the announced refusal to convert any more ForgeWorld prdocuts to Citadel, the Flyer rules in 6th Edition, and the Chaos Daemon Engines (look at the pricing) are all efforts to get collector's to feel comfortable in purchasing these "fringe" models and lines.

The problem is that too many people focus on the tournament scenes like Feast of Blades and 'Ard Boys and call them the "real" game, when the real game is what happens without a TO. Everything from Forgeworld IS as much a part of the "real" game now as the Chaos Daemon WD enhancements, the Storm Talon, or even Sisters of Battle. The tournaments are the game's exceptions, not the standards. Even more so when they can and do deny use of units and rules that are in the BRB and Codex/Army Book (like Warlord Traits or Unique Models/Units, aka Special Characters).

But in the end, all this boils down to the discussion you have with the bloke you're going to play against, little more. The point is to have fun, and if I want the same game over and over again, I'll go back to Checkers.