Heroic Killing Blow and the Cauldron of Blood.

[dementian]

Hey all,

Just recently picked up a Bretonnia army and was having a couple of games with it the next day. I fielded a Lord with the Virtue of Heroism (heroic killing blow). As per the question in the subject line. I was in combat with the Cauldron of Blood and was wondering how one would resolve a heroic killing blow on it. In the end we didn't give any effect (was playing my brother and I was pretty far ahead of him at this point and I wasn't worried about losing combats).

So I had a couple of ideas. Since when the first and second wound is done to the CoB hag attendants are removed and with the 3rd and 4th wound the death hag dies. Either HKB would kill all 3 or if the CoB was on it's first or second wound would it lose an attendant? On third wound would it kill the death hag?

I assumed HKB would work and just kill everything. But if anyone has come into this situation or knows how to handle this situation please let me know.

(For fun an anecdote from the battle: Group of 11 KotR charged one of his hydras. Knights deal no wounds (uh oh) Hydra rolls 11 for str 5 breath. (Uh oh). Between breath and attacks 9/11 Knights of the Realm die. Break run down...)

So anyways can the Cauldon be Heroic Killing Blowed?

[Mid'ean]

HKB would remove all wounds on the model and destroy it.

[Blkc57]

It is a war-machine and thus if HKB'd would be removed in its entirety, although I still think it has a 4+ wardsave, maybe I'm wrong I haven't played one in a while since Dark elf players learned that the silly thing can't charge anything anymore.

[Kayosiv]

I don't even think you can attack the Cauldron in close combat. You fight the attendants and when they die it dies. Attacks are only resolved against the cauldron itself when you shoot at it and randomize to it.

[Artinam]

I have to look up the rules for fighting the warmachine in closecombat. I'm not sure.

[Kalandros]

I don't even think you can attack the Cauldron in close combat. You fight the attendants and when they die it dies. Attacks are only resolved against the cauldron itself when you shoot at it and randomize to it.

This is wrong. The entire War Machine is a SINGLE model, its crew and the machine make one unique model, it is not a machine + separate crew models though they are usually modeled that way for convenience.
If you strike a Heroic Killing Blow and the 4+ ward save is failed, even if it hasn't taken any wounds yet, you remove the entire war machine model with its crew. Its gone.

The rules are quite clear that the 'crew models' are simply wound counters.

[Blkc57]

I don't even think you can attack the Cauldron in close combat. You fight the attendants and when they die it dies. Attacks are only resolved against the cauldron itself when you shoot at it and randomize to it.

kalandros is very correct here, the Cauldron is a war-machine thus it uses all the rules of fighting a warmachine. You are confusing, Kayosiv, the concept of a split profile. The machine is a single model with two stat lines one for the crew and one for the machine, use the crew stat lines in close combat the machine when being shot at (you don't randomize between the crew and the machine in 8th). The crew themselves are simply wound counters, they don't actually exist for game purposes, heck most people I know don't even bother modeling them anymore. The thing about removing the witches in a certain order is to specify as the machine takes wounds which stat lines are left for it to use in combat.

[AntaresCD]

In fact, this question is also specifically addressed in the BRB FAQ:

Q: If a war machine is attacked by a model with the Heroic Killing
Blow special rule, and the attacker rolls a 6 to wound, are all
remaining wounds on the war machine lost? (p72)
A: Yes.

So if the Cauldron is a war machine and it gets HKB'd (and fails any applicable Ward Save) it is completely destroyed.

[vorthrax]

When attacking a Cauldron of Blood in close combat, are you testing to wound versus T3 or T10?

[theunwantedbeing]

When attacking a Cauldron of Blood in close combat, are you testing to wound versus T3 or T10?

You need to read the war machine rules.
You use the crews toughness in combat, the machines toughness at all other times.

[vorthrax]

You need to read the war machine rules.

Read the rules? I never would have thought of that! Sometimes one might question a rule they think they know and not have immediate access to a rulebook. Thanks for the clarification nevertheless.