Marine Tactica

[teh_soldier]

Okay, here goes.
Basically, i have no idea what to choose to make a list.
I know how to make a list, just not what to put in it. For example, should i choose a Librarian or a Chaplian, cos i dont know which would go better with my army. If i choose Tactical Squads over Scouts, do i arm the Marines with Flamers and Missiles, or Plasma and Lascannon?
Basically, im asking for advice on how to play Space Marines, and what to sue in my Army.
I have bog standard Space Marines, not Blood Angels or Space Wolves, etc.
I have pretty much any model needed (30 terminators, 3 Dreadnoughts, etc)
So any advice at all woiuld be much appriciated. I have looked around the Tactics section, and all i can find is specialist tactica, like Ravenwing, etc.
Thanks alot,
Soldier

[Reticent]

It is a lot easier than you think, just-

1) Make a quick list that takes the models you like most

2) Play a game with that list

3) Remove anything from that list that you think didn't work out well in the game and replace it with something else

4) Repeat step 2.

[impending slaughter]

I'll go through some good units to take (imo). This assumes no traits btw:

1. 3 LS with HB and assault cannon
2. 1 LS with HB (corner snatcher)
2. 5 man SM squad with lascannon
3. 7-8 man SM squad with lascannon and plasma gun
4. 10 man SM squad with meltagun, hidden fist and DP
5. 10 man assault squad with hidden fist and attactched chaplain
6. 8 man dev squad with 4 missile launchers
7. Ven dread with assault cannon
8. Pred with lascannon turret and HB sponsons
9. Pred with autocannon turret and lascannon sponsons

What sort of army are you looking for? We can help more with more details. Shooty, cc, fast, etc?

[teh_soldier]

Basically, im after any kind or army that will work well. Im not worried about how fun the army is to play (i have Orks for fun :P) but i think shooty or close combat would work the best, maybe not rhino rush though (i'm carving up my rhino's for my Orks at the mo).

[TheCimSaint]

One army that I would think would be nasty would look something like this:

- Librarian Termi, Fear of Darkness
- Termi Command

- Termis
- Dreadnoughts with or without Pods

- Scouts w/ Teleport Homers
- Tactical Squads in Fire Support roles and in Drop Pods (maybe 2:1 ratio)

- Speeders w/ the inevitable assault cannon

- Whirlwinds

That's the kind of nasty thing that I might take to a Tournament if I ever went to one. To be honest, if you showed up week after week with something like that, we might not play all that often.

But, of course, do whatcha want.

-Saint

[Gondorian]

What sort of style do you like, lots of infantry, Mechanised, drop troops?
It's hard to advise otherwise.
The same principle applies to your HQ. It depends what the rest of your army is.

To Impending slaughter:
What is the principle behind the pred with auto cannon and las sponsons. It sounds interesting but what role does it fill?

To All: Should this become Tactica Marines in the same way as Tactica orks or Tactica Imperium or is such a step unecessary?

[impending slaughter]

To Impending slaughter:
What is the principle behind the pred with auto cannon and las sponsons. It sounds interesting but what role does it fill?

I always like my preds to be have both anti-troop and anti-tank capabilities. The autocannon/las build can do that, but it also has a better chance of taking down vehicles like skimmers and AV11 than tri-las does. It performs pretty well. I also think tri-las is just a pt sink to be honest unless you're chaos and can take Mutated Hull to help it stay alive.

Having said that, I personally prefer the las turret HB sponson build because it can move and fire whereas the las sponson one can't.

To All: Should this become Tactica Marines in the same way as Tactica orks or Tactica Imperium or is such a step unecessary?

I think so yeah, considering how many n00bs start out with SM.

[Nemesis Inferno]

Not that many n00bs...I started with nids...

My question is, have people tried the other kind of LST (Yes, there's one without AC)...I plan to try it out soon with two seperate speeders, and I would like to know some people's views on them...

Pred with TL Las and HB sponsons are definately better, but it depends on your type, stand back and shoot deserves full blown las imo...

[teh_soldier]

To TheCimSaint:
I treid out that kind of build not too long ago, but my but group of Terminators didnt arrive till the last turn of the game, which really screwed me over.

Im thinking going for a Shooty or a CC army? Any advice?
Also any builds that would combat a Ulthwe army would be helpful (NOT a Strike Force Ulthwe, the other kind)

[impending slaughter]

Im thinking going for a Shooty or a CC army? Any advice?
Also any builds that would combat a Ulthwe army would be helpful (NOT a Strike Force Ulthwe, the other kind)

Heavy bolters are great at killing eldar. Assault cannons are good too. If the seer council has a wave serpant or falcon, try and take that down as a priority because you really want to be able to weaken them before they reach combat as SM lack the numbers to tie them up like latd, nids and orks do. You could try taking an allied Vindicare assassin to kill starcannons but then you would need to take an inquisitor too. Worth considering though.

[Gondorian]

You said you're using bog standard marines, does that exclude the use of traits.

cc armies tend to do well with lots of infantry. More bodies to get into the assault. Assault marines are good, command squads, termies if used well.
Shooty armies like lots of bolters, tanks, heavy weapons.

These are just guide lines, either style army can work with various options.

[teh_soldier]

Gondorian- Imeant that im not using Space Wolves or Black Templars, etc. Traits are fine by me. Also, the guy doesnt use any vehicles besides 2 Wraithlords in his army-no Falcons or Wave Serpants.

[Spada]

I have a couple different SM Armies, but the ones I have had most success with are my Dark Angels. The list looks something like this

HQ
Master Termie armour
w/ Termie Sqd

Elite
6 Assault Termies /w Librarian Termie
In a
Land Raider Crusader
2 Dreads (1 ML/ TL LC and 1 Assault Cannon/ Fist with flamer)

Fast Attack
7 Assault Marines (SGT and 2 others /w plasma pistols)
Ravenwing Bike Squadron

Troop
2 Tac squads with plasma cannons 1 with Rhino
1 Sqd Scouts /w 1 HB 2 Snipes

Heavy Support
2 Whirlwinds

After upgrades and everything it's usually about 2000 (I think with a little room to play around). The main questions you have to ask are these:

How will I deal with CC units (Dread /w assault cannon, Assault Termies, Land Raider Crusader)

How will I deal with Armor? (Dread with ML, Whirlwind with the optional missles, Plasma cannons, Melta bombs w/ Assault Squad)

How will I deal with Range? (Wwind, snipers for pinning units, move dreads/rhino in the way, and Tac squads).

And finally, like someone else said, play a few games, and see what you are strong (or maybe too strong) at defeating. If you consistently wipe the enemies armor by say turn 2, but can't deal with CC units, then drop a Lascannon or the melta bombs (they are spendy) and put some more meat into your force.

It's called playtesting

One thing I will say, is that an army you tailor to defeat one opponent is kind of cheesy. You just get into a constant battle of strengths and if you come against another type of army you WILL lose, that and it's no fun for your opponent. Balanced armies make for more unpredictable gameplay, and won't see you getting your butt handed to you any time you come up against orks or something.

[the_crazy_russian]

I think that your standard Marines are not specialized enough to be a solely close combat (a la Khorne) army, or an entirely shooty army (Tau come to mind). What they need, IMO, is to take the best of both worlds.

What I did with my Marines to fill the assault role is take No Mercy, No Respite to turn my Assault Marines (10x) into close combat engines and augmented them with a Chaplain for the precious re-roll and fearlessness. Backed by 10x Scouts kitted for assault, they work miracles.

To cover shooting, I took Honor your Wargear and two squads of Devastators (6-man, to keep them small but not too small). One was outfitted with 2x lascannons and 2x missile launchers to hunt tanks and not be completely ineffective against troops, while the second got 4x heavy bolters. They have a choice of two veteran skills which I use interchangeably, depending on the opponent. The anti-tank squad will almost invariably have Tank Hunters, and only Infiltrate on special occasions. The heavy bolters, though not nominally an anti-vehicle weapons, coupled with Tank Hunters will spell doom for squadrons of light vehicles, though they are usually Infiltrators for me.

With both sides of the coin well covered, I took a min size Scout squad for an infiltrating missile launcher and a full strength Tactical squad for 2 plasma weapons (gun and cannon), as well as a venerable Dreadnought (sometimes replaced by an insane Librarian if I've got an annoying character to kill) and a Vindicator. This fits into 1500 pts.

Should the battle be over 1500 pts, I would certainly field my Librarian as well as everything above, as crazy characters are to be expected in most high point games. I would also take a squad of 5 Inquisitorial stormtroopers for one sole purpose: to sight in the Vindicator. With a short range and a lot of enemy to deal with, not a single precious shot must go to waste. There is little one can do to alleviate a bad scatter, but targeters will go a long way in selecting targets for upcoming shooting phases and figuring out exactly how far you need to move so as not to get swamped.

This manner of balanced specialization is the best for Marine armies that use traits. Codex Chapters can, of course, field more numbers to make up for the lack of veteran skills, but it's always been quality over quantity for me.

[murphyj]

As an Ultramarine player How can I deal with Death Company? (without sacraficing my entire army in the process)

[Gondorian]

I've never played DC but I think mass bolter fire and careful counter chaging with assault squads or termie squads may be useful.
A vindicator may have some effect.

[Sergeant Tanthius]

I've never played DC but I think mass bolter fire and careful counter chaging with assault squads or termie squads may be useful.
A vindicator may have some effect.

Agreed. Keep on shooting it with lots, lots and LOTS of bullets and they will fall. Assault cannons and vulcan mega bolters it you can ever get your hands on one... Last time I remember it was like S7 Ap3 Heavy 8 or somethink...Death Company? or Dead Company?

Since this is to be a long tactica thread, heres my question: what do you do with your own infiltrators in Alpha mission. I have a bunch of infiltrating marines that can do farely well if it can infiltrate, but without it they are hamburger. Can anybody how to keep scouts/dual special Wp infiltrators alive when they can't do hwat they do best?

[Gondorian]

I think you'd have to play them like conventional marines because you've gone from sneaking onto the objectives to foot slogging. It also depends what you'd normally infiltrate, is it one unit of scouts or three full squads of devastators.
I think that if you make the squad versatile enougth then they should cope with either situation. My personal preferece for infiltrators would be full strength units with bolters as they can fire long range on the objectives if infiltrated or march up to the objectives and spray it with rapid fire if not infiltrated.

[impending slaughter]

Has anyone ever tried using a vindicare assassin to snipe the chaplain? On paper it looks like a good idea. You could then use a LS to lead the DC around. Anyone ever tried it?

[Shadow Weaver]

Heavy Bolters are definately your friends against massed eldar infantry, enough of them will kill wraithlords.

I don't like using specialised army lists, I much prefer an all comers list, as such I suggest the following shooty army to move away from your Orcs-
(No Codex at work forgive point errors)

Chaplain + BP =91pts (left over)

Tactical squads 1-3
6 Marines with tank hunter skill and Las Cannon = 123pts each

6 man Scout squad 5 Sniper Rifles and Missile Launcher = 113

2 x 8 man Scout squads
Bolters or close combat wpns
Missile Launcher
Vet Serg & PF = 144

3 Land speeder tornados for deep striking or massed fire support

3 Preds TL Las and HV Bolters with smoke and extra armour.

In escalation most of your army is there on the table those not can come on and move and fire all weapons, the land speeders can deep strike if necessary for those hiding indirect fire weapons or rear armour.

The 2 x 8 man scout squads can infiltrate towards objectives,
9 mobile Heavy Bolters, 3 assault cannons, 2 missile launchers, 5 sniper rifles and 5 Las Cannons should lay down enough long range fire to slow down the most determined assault or cover your own.