It seems like Flakk Missles miss the mark for me, but i wanted to see what most people thought.
They are fine as is.
Should have been included at 20 points.
Should have been a 5 point upgrade instead of 10.
It seems like Flakk Missles miss the mark for me, but i wanted to see what most people thought.
The option I want isn't there ("other").
The cost for giving a ML Flakk is fine, but the ML itself should be 5pts cheaper.
This would still not solve the issue with Flakk however: Any ML with Flakk should also get the "Interceptor"-rule.
It doesn't matter if Flakk costs 0 pts, 20 pts or 50 pts - they will die the same when the fliers enter play and obliterate the unit(s) ment to destroy them.
In regards to your question: Yes, Flakk Missiles are a massive fail.
The fail is with the core rules for aircraft and the lack of a proper overwatch system. No real attempt was made to show a realistic dynamic of flak vs aircraft. Any AA without Interceptor is dead meat from the enemy aircraft before they can fire.
... and then I won.
I don't think they are a total fail. Are they a bit hamfisted in how they were handled? Yes. Do they need some tweaking? Certainly.
Were they a total failure? No. FAQ'ing in Interceptor to their rules would go a long way TO fixing Flakk missiles.
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I feel that for their cost strength 7 is too low. It's almost always better to go with autocannons who are way cheaper and get more shots. Besides when you have things like the forgefiend who can spit out 8 s8 shots it makes for a much better anti aircraft platform than havocs.
S7 is the proper value. S8 would have made AV10/11 flyers far too weak. It isn't better to go AC if you want dedicated air defense.
It is, because going AC instead of Flakk, gives you enough points to also buy a Quadcannon.Originally Posted by Daedalus81
Adding interceptor to every gun in the game would be even better
Adding Interceptor to every sky fire weapon would be a start, yes, although it would have the side effect of allowing all flak weapons to be fired at ground targets (not a big deal for missiles as they can fire krak anyway but it'd affect things like hydra). But really that's a patch for the gaping hole in the system where the over watch system should be and it shows up the worst of the IGOUGO system.
It would be so easy to put in some AA and simple dogfighting rules. E.g. Any weapon with Skyfire can fire at the end of the opponent's movement phase, but can't fire in your shooting phase. Done, minus a couple of exceptions. Aircraft can do strafing runs (shoot in shooting phase) or fire on enemy aircraft (shoot in AA phase).
Seriously it isn't that hard and given GW have implemented such systems before (epic armageddon) its pretty frustrating 40k got such a half finished aircraft system when it is a pretty big part of the game right now. Most new elements in 6th are the same - cool idea, terrible implementation.
... and then I won.
Yes, but not just on their own. They're expensive for their value, and we've got far too much weight towards AV12 amongst the current flyers in the game, when previously under FW about the only flyers that had armor values like that were Thunder Hawks and Manta's and everything else was AV10 or rarely AV11. On top of that, lacking Interceptor, it means they typically are engaged and destroyed before they can engage the flyers.
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Dont you think having interceptor on everything that has FLAKK would be bit unfair to flyers considering interceptor means that av10-11 flyer probably wont even get to go ?
Well right now it's the opposite: Fliers destroying Anti-Air before they get to go.
It's more realistic that the AA kills the Flier, but right now it's the reverse.
I like Lord Inquisitor's idéa about allowing Flakk to shoot against enemy fliers at the end of the enemy movementphase, if they forfeit their own shootingphase.
At least the player who brings the fliers will have at least one turn to deal with the opponents AA.
I'm certain points can be found elsewhere. Its still easily killable, but the ML unit could use it too, and then you don't need to invest any extra points in AA.
Yes, aircraft would be vulnerable to flakk. So take out the AA units with your ground forces or bring overwhelming aircraft numbers. Like in real war.
... and then I won.
Well as long as its not disproportionate cost wise Doomscythe is like 175 points the emplacement gun costs less than half as much and can kill it without it getting a go, in addition to that it doesnt even take the slot while Doomscythe takes a heavy slot. Also the interceptor gun can switch fire mode and be good against light vehicles and infantry as well. I dont think existing things with interceptor are very balanced. If you want to be able to completely remove flyers out of the equation like that you should be paying premium prices for it.
Yes but the cost of AA shouldnt be negligible as Aircraft represent serious investment of points unless your playing IG. I think atm flyers countering flyers works but they didnt really think other anti air through properly. Like the emplacement gun a shameless money grab on GW part making it viciously undercosted.
Or Necrons or Orks or Dark Eldaras they can get at least some fliers for 100-120pts.
It's pretty just the CSM's and BA/GK, Voidravens and Doomscythes that pay significant investments for flyers.
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I just dont think that giving everything interceptor is the answer. Having to pack away something right after bringing it on the table witout being able to do anything after paying a lot for it is never cool.
what about doing something along the lines of making flakk missiles similar to lance weapons, so always glances on 4+, pens on 5+, sureley then gives a viable man portable AA weapon that can engage the stormtalons of the world without making lighter aircraft unfieldable?
Thats pretty cool i guess . There is just a matter of costing them properly then.
That almost completely nullifies the point of an armor value on fliers and would kill their costing.
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