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Thread: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

  1. #1
    Chapter Master Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
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    Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    I see a lot of views. I know it's long, but we'll appreciate it if you slog through. Supplement to the current Codex gone horribly, horribly right.

    Priorities

    5) Start going through the army list, entry by entry, pricing the basic cost of things before all the goodies and making sure they're functional at whatever job they need to do, or tweak them if they're not. Playtest if you have time.

    4) Review the vanilla Armory- this is without really Chaotic or Mark specific stuff, just weapons and basic gear and upgrades. Make sure it's all priced well and functional. Playtest if you have time.

    3) Start slogging through the Books of Chaos one by one, pricing and tweaking them so they're balanced and fun. Playtest if you have time.

    2) Finalize the special characters, both GWs and ours, in their function and price. I think in particular Lucius and Fabius could use some attention. Playtest if you have time.

    1) Roll the whole mess up into a nice format like vladsimpaler drew up for some units.

    Contents:

    General Special Rules; Bestiary/Army List Pt. 1: HQ pt. 1: Post #1

    Bestiary/Army List Pt. 2: HQ pt. 2, Troops, Elites pt. 1: Post#3

    Bestiary/Army List Pt. 3: Elites pt. 2, Dedicated Transports, Fast Attack, Heavy Support; General Armory pt. 1: Post #5

    General Armory pt. 2, Books of Chaos Undivided and Khorne, pt. 1: Post #8

    Books of Khorne, pt. 2, Tzeentch and Nurgle: Post #18

    Book of Slaanesh; Bestiary/Army List pt. 4: Special Characters, pt. 1: Post #21

    Bestiary/Army List pt. 5: Special Characters pt. 2: Post #23


    Bestiary/Army List pt. 6: Special Characters, pt. 3; Acknowledgements: Post #25

    General Special Rules

    Warlord Traits

    Your Warlord may, instead of rolling, choose a specific result from a table in this book as his Warlord Trait- note this choice on your army list. When Warlord Traits would normally be chosen, however, roll a D6. On a result lower than a 6+, you must instead roll for a trait as normal from a table in this book or the main rulebook- the conditions of battle or the whims of the Gods do not accomodate your Warlord's specialty. Veterans of the Long War and Marks of Chaos will grant you bonuses to this roll as noted.

    Mortal Table:
    1- Spearhead: Your Warlord, his Chosen, and any unit he joins gain the Preferred Enemy and Hatred (HQ, Walkers, and Monstrous Creatures for both).
    2- Iron Within and Without: All units friendly to your Warlord have Counterattack, or, if they have Counterattack, add +1 to the Attacks gained through Counterattack, when holding, denying, or contesting an objective. Warpsmiths may shatter up to 2 defenses apiece.
    3- We are Many: Your enemy must reroll successful Reserves; furthermore his Reserves must be rolled for the entire game, and will not automatically arrive on turn 4.
    4- Terror and Darkness: You may influence any roll for Night Fighting by 1. Additionally, 2+D3 separate enemy units per turn must take Pinning tests at -1 Ld.
    5- Black Crusader: All friendly units with Veterans of the Long War gain Preferred Enemy: Space Marines.
    6- Starfaring Corsairs: When units considered friendly to your Warlord are firing on ruins, buildings, fortifications, and units therein, double the models within will be hit by template weapons and weapons with Melta or Armorbane may reroll armor penetration dice.

    Divine Table:
    1- Disciples of Chaos: Your Warlord gains the Visions and Voices, Zealot, Beseech the Dark Gods, Insidious Diplomacy, and Demagogue with a 12” range; this may not be applied to a Unique unit, so you must roll again if a Unique unit is your Warlord.
    2- Everchosen: All units from this Codex ignore their Ancient Hatreds. Should your Warlord be slain, this effect is lost and all Independent Characters must leave units with mismatching Marks upon his death, possibly incurring Dangerous Terrain tests.
    3- Skulls for His Throne: Whenever a friendly unit that does not have Daemon/Mark of Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle removes a unit from the board by shooting, in assault, or by sweeping advance, it gains +1 Attack for the rest of the game; place markers beside qualifying units (skull markers would be characterful).
    4- Architect of Fate: All friendly Psykers without the Mark/Daemon of Slaanesh or Nurgle may reroll psychic tests.
    5- Lord of the Flies: All friendly units without the Mark/Daemon of Slaanesh, Khorne, or Tzeentch gain Stealth.
    6- Exultant Bliss: All friendly units without the Mark/Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, or Nurgle may add +D3 to any one Move, Run, or Charge roll per turn, rolling for each unit.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Chaos Space Marines are hardly as selfless as loyalist dogs anymore, but those who are produced from decent stock or who have seen enough combat do not give in to the odds being stacked against them. While they will retreat to fight another day, they are too proud to be scattered entirely and will put up as spirited a defense as a lapdog of the False Emperor.

    If a unit with at least one model with this special rule is caught in a Sweeping Advance or assaulted while Falling Back, that unit will not be destroyed, but become locked in close combat. A unit with at least one model with Psycho-Indoctrination is immune to Fear.

    Champions of Chaos:

    Change 1st sentence of 2nd paragraph to: A model with the Champion of Chaos special rule must issue a challenge to a unit containing a character with equal or higher Leadership than the Champion, and accept a challenge from such characters whenever possible. If your enemy accepts the challenge with a character with a lesser Leadership value than your issuing Challenger, you may choose to reject the challenge and fight the combat as if there had been no challenges issued- your Champion will not deign to personally cut down every fool who offers himself up on the altar of battle.

    Add sentence to information about Chaos Boons: If your result is an Attribute that you previous rolled for this character, you have one of two options: Keep it (some attributes stack and this will be noted), or you may reroll. You may not reroll an Unworthy Offering unless the character your Champion killed had the Mark or was a Daemon of a different God than your Champion either is Marked by or a Daemon of.

    Add clause: Sorcerers of Chaos are often hardly as concerned with martial honor or pride as other Champions of Chaos. If presented with difficult prey or if the enemy charges him foolhardily, a Sorcerer will simply invoke some quick psychic pyrotechnics and make his escape behind his fellows. If a Champion of Chaos is a psyker, he may expend a Warp Charge in order to avoid issuing or accepting a challenge. Treat this exactly as if he had refused a challenge, and your opponent had nominated him as a character ineligible to strike blows.

    I think it's pretty clear that the Spawn or Prince should really be placed "as close as possible" instead of "within 3"" because otherwise, in a decent scrum, you might not have a chance of having a place within 3" to put him.

    Fleet: Given to Champion and his unit.

    Witch Eater: Provides Adamantium Will and Witch Eater effect.

    Any Artefacts and Psychic Powers will further survive Apotheosis.

    D6 roll/Movement Mode

    If your Champion of Chaos rolls Dark Apotheosis, consult the following chart:

    1: Your Daemon Prince becomes Infantry Monstrous Creature (Character) with Seal of Corruption.
    2-5: Your Daemon Prince is a Beast Monstrous Creature (Character).
    6: Your Daemon Prince is a Flying Monstrous Creature (Character).

    Mastery

    In some instances a model will be called upon to take a Mastery Test. This is a Leadership test, so vehicles will test on Leadership 10. On any success on doubles the model will suffer a Wound or Glancing Hit at Ap -, on failure the model suffers Perils of the Warp and is reduced to WS and BS 1 till the beginning of the next phase. Each time a model takes a Wound (saved or unsaved!) or suffers a Glancing or Penetrating Hit it suffer -1 to the next Mastery Test.

    Veterans of the Long War:

    Models with the Champion of Chaos rule gain +1 BS and WS.

    Warlords gain a +2 bonus to the roll for keeping a given choice from the Mortal and Divine Warlord Traits tables above.

    Army List/Bestiary

    HQs:

    Daemon Prince

    T6 base, comes with two close combat weapons (drop an Attack), Ld 10, power armor standard. 185 points base.

    May exchange any close combat weapon for: Chainaxe or power sword for free, heavy chainsword, power axe, spear, or lightning claw for +5 points, force sword, axe or staff or power scourge or maul for +10 points, Powerfist for +15 points, Chainfist or Eviscerator for +20 points.

    May take up to two: combi-bolter +3 points, Combi-melta, -plasma, or -flamer for +10 points, Heavy Flamer for +10 points, Reaper Autocannon for +15 points.

    Daemon Princes may select a Dread Title, take a Mark of Chaos, be upgraded to a Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh, and select from the Chaos Rewards, Special Issue, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear and Artefact sections of the Books of Chaos.

    May be upgraded to: Berzerker, Rubric Marine, Plague Marine, Noise Marine.

    If he does not take the Mark of Khorne or Tzeentch, he may become a Mastery Level 1 Psyker for +15 points. If he attains Mastery Level 1 by any means, he may become Mastery Level 2 for +25 points. If he attains Mastery Level 2 by any means, he may become Mastery Level 3 for +25 points.

    May take up to four Gifts of Mutation at +15 points each.

    May purchase the Hostmaster rule for +15 points; if he does so and is your Warlord, one of the following units of your choice becomes scoring in your primary detachment: Harbinger Brutes, Cavalry, Harbingers, Raptors, or Outriders OR: Possessed may become Troops in your primary detachment.

    Scion of the Warp: Friendly Champions of Chaos within 12" of a Daemon Prince roll three dice and select the two they would like as the result.

    Chaos Lords

    Come with Bolter standard. May exchange bolter and/or bolt pistol for close combat weapon.

    Lords may select a Dread Title, take a Mark of Chaos, and select from the Melee, Ranged, Chaos Rewards, Special Issue, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear and Artefact sections of the Books of Chaos. If he selects Terminator Armor, he may no longer select from the Melee and Ranged sections of the Armory, but may select from the Terminator Melee and Terminator Ranged sections of the Armory.

    If he does not take the Mark of Khorne or Tzeentch, he may become a Mastery Level 1 Psyker for +15 points. If he attains Mastery Level 1 by any means, he may become Mastery Level 2 for +25 points. If he attains Mastery Level 2 by any means, he may become Mastery Level 3 for +25 points.

    May exchange all wargear for Terminator Armor, combi-bolter, and power axe, sword, lance, scourge, or maul for +40 points. If Veterans of the Long war is taken, may upgrade Terminator armor to Cataphracti Armor for +5 points.

    May take up to three Gifts of Mutation for +10 points each.

    If he has the appropriate Mark, he may be upgraded to: Berzerker, Rubric Marine, Plague Marine, Noise Marine.

    Hostmaster: If the Chaos Lord is your Warlord, choose one of the following. If the Chaos Lord has Terminator Armor, Terminators in your primary detachment are scoring. If he has a Steed, Hellborne in your primary detachment are scoring. If he has a Bike or Jetbike, Outriders in your primary detachment are scoring. If he has a Jump Pack or Daemonic Flight, Raptors in your primary detachment are scoring. If he has none of these, Harbingers in your primary detachment are scoring.

    Sorcerers

    If he does not take the Mark of Tzeentch, he may become a Mastery Level 2 Psyker for +25 points. If he attains Mastery Level 2 by any means, he may become Mastery Level 3 for +25 points.

    Come with Bolter standard. Starts out with a Force Axe, Sword, or Stave. May exchange bolter and/or bolt pistol for close combat weapon.

    Sorcerers may select a Dread Title, take a Mark of Chaos (Mark of Tzeentch is free as it only gives the Sorcerer access to tables available to a Sorcerer of Tzeentch) and select from the Melee, Ranged, Chaos Rewards, Special Issue, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear and Artefact sections of the Books of Chaos. If he selects Terminator Armor, he may no longer select from the Melee and Ranged sections of the Armory, but may select from the Terminator Melee and Terminator Ranged sections of the Armory. Sorcerers may not replace their Force weapons, though they may make them Artefacts.

    May exchange all wargear for Terminator Armor, combi-bolter, and force sword, axe, or staff for +25 points. If Veterans of the Long war is taken, may upgrade Terminator armor to Cataphracti Armor for +5 points.

    May be upgraded to: Rubric Marine, Plague Marine, Noise Marine.

    May take up to three Gifts of Mutation for +10 points each.

    Hostmaster: If a Sorcerer is your Warlord, Possessed may be taken as Troops in your primary detachment.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Warpsmiths

    Come with Bolter standard. May exchange bolter and/or bolt pistol for close combat weapon.

    Warpsmiths may select a Dread Title, take a Mark of Chaos, and select from the Melee, Ranged, Chaos Rewards, Special Issue, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear and Artefact sections of the Books of Chaos. If he selects Terminator Armor, he may no longer select from the Melee and Ranged sections of the Armory, but may select from the Terminator Melee and Terminator Ranged sections of the Armory. Warpsmiths may not replace their power axes, though they may make them Artefacts.

    May be upgraded to: Berzerker, Rubric Marine, Plague Marine, Noise Marine.

    If he does not take the Mark of Khorne or Tzeentch, he may become a Mastery Level 1 Psyker for +15 points. If he attains Mastery Level 1 by any means, he may become Mastery Level 2 for +25 points.

    May exchange all wargear for Terminator Armor, combi-bolter, and power axe for +25 points. If Veterans of the Long war is taken, may upgrade Terminator armor to Cataphracti Armor for +5 points.

    May take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +10 points each.

    May take selections from the Armory, but may not replace his power axe.

    The Virus: One unit from this Codex in your primary detachment, indicated in your army list, gains Relentless when firing Lascannons, Plasma Guns, and Combi-Plasmas fired as Plasma Guns.

    Hostmaster: If your Warlord is a Warpsmith, Havocs in your primary detachment are scoring.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Dark Apostle

    Come with Bolter standard. May exchange bolter and/or bolt pistol for close combat weapon.

    Dark Apostles may select a Dread Title, take a Mark of Chaos, and select from the Melee, Ranged, Chaos Rewards, Special Issue, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear and Artefact sections of the Books of Chaos. If he selects Terminator Armor, he may no longer select from the Melee and Ranged sections of the Armory, but may select from the Terminator Melee and Terminator Ranged sections of the Armory. Dark Apostles may not replace their power mauls, but may make them Artefacts.

    May be upgraded to: Berzerker, Rubric Marine, Plague Marine, Noise Marine.

    If he does not take the Mark of Khorne or Tzeentch, he may become a Mastery Level 1 Psyker for +15 points. If he attains Mastery Level 1 by any means, he may purchase Mastery Level 2 for +25 points.

    May take selections from the Armory, but may not replace his power maul.

    May exchange all wargear for Terminator Armor, combi-bolter, and power maul for +25 points. If Veterans of the Long war is taken, may upgrade Terminator armor to Cataphracti Armor for +5 points.

    May take up to three Gifts of Mutation for +10 points each.

    Insidious Diplomacy: If your primary detachment includes a Dark Apostle, Allied Detachments who are Allies of Convenience become Battle Brothers, and Allied Detachments who are Desperate Allies become Allies of Convenience. Those who would only ally with Chaos Come the Apocalypse still may not be allied, however- an Apostle's gifts only go so far!

    Visions and Voices: A Dark Apostle who is a Psyker is limited to the Divination, Telepathy, and Daemonancy disciplines. This overrides the normal restrictions for Marked psykers- he may not roll on the psychic tables for Nurgle, Slaanesh, or Tzeentch!

    Chaos Space Marine Exalted Champion

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    Exalted Champion 4 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 3+

    Unit Type/Size: Infantry (Character), 1-3 Exalted Champions.

    Wargear: Power Armor, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades.

    Options:

    You may take between 1 and 3 Exalted Champions as a single HQ choice for +40 points each. Each Exalted Champion may be equipped differently; run through these options separately for each Exalted Champion you take.

    May exchange bolter and/or bolt pistol for close combat weapon.

    Exalted Champions may take a Mark of Chaos, and select from the Melee, Ranged, Chaos Rewards, Special Issue, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear and Artefact sections of the Books of Chaos. If he selects Terminator Armor, he may no longer select from the Melee and Ranged sections of the Armory, but may select from the Terminator Melee and Terminator Ranged sections of the Armory.

    May exchange all wargear for Terminator Armor, combi-bolter, and power axe, scourge, sword, lance, or maul for +40 points. If Veterans of the Long war is taken, may upgrade Terminator armor to Cataphracti Armor for +5 points.

    May take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +10 points each.

    May be upgraded to: Berzerker, Rubric Marine, Plague Marine, Noise Marine.

    If he does not take the Mark of Khorne or Tzeentch, he may become a Mastery Level 1 Psyker for +15 points. If he attains Mastery Level 1 by any means, he may purchase one further Mastery Level for +25 points.

    May take Veterans of the Long War.

    Special Rules:

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Independent: Each Exalted Champion must be deployed with a unit of Harbingers, Hellborne, Infernal Brutes, Possessed, Marauders, Outriders, Raptors, Warp Talons, or Havocs upon deployment and may not leave that unit. If that unit is destroyed, the Exalted Champion becomes an Independent Character. Only one Exalted Champion may be assigned per such unit, so don't take too many!

    Champion of Chaos
    Last edited by Imperialis_Dominatus; 15-02-2013 at 04:12.
    Rules - CSM - BA - LatD (when I find my notes)
    Stories - Perish the Weak - Brothers in Chaos - The Baron Rises

  2. #2
    Chapter Master squeekenator's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Warlord Traits: My first instinct would be to make a single warlord trait corresponding to each Legion and then allowing your warlord to purchase an upgrade that lets him choose his trait, independent of the VotLW upgrade (a small, freshly turned Khornate warband that uses World Eaters rules shouldn't have to be led by an ancient veteran). With your Mortal/Divine split, perhaps that would make the Divine table consist of warlord traits corresponding to the four cult legions plus Word Bearers and one generic god-related trait, then on the Mortal side the other four legions and two generic traits. Though unless you completely eliminate rolling for warlord traits, you couldn't make them too Legion-specific; they would need merely to evoke the feel of the Legion while still fitting any other. Otherwise you could end up with silliness like a Khorne warlord rolling a Thousand Sons-specific trait that boosts his psychic powers; it'd be better to make a Tzeentch themed trait do something like give the character re-rolls. It fits with Tzeentch's manipulative magic, but could easily fit any Legion or warband.

    Champions of Chaos table: Agreed.

    Daemon Weapons: Makes sense, better leadership should help you to establish dominance over a daemon. That being said, the only model without Ld10 who has access to daemon weapons as-is is the Daemon Prince, who are hardly weak-willed and should probably be better at controlling daemon weapons than anyone else. The other issue is that Ld10 models would go from having a 1/6 chance for their weapon to rebel to 1/12. Not necessarily a huge deal, but it does certainly improve daemon weapons and eliminate much of the risk involved in using them.

    Veterans of the Long War: I'd give access to Champion of Chaos to Chosen and Terminators as well. They'd be at least as experienced as Aspiring Champions, and it lets you make a super-elite Chaos army, maybe a traitor equivalent of Grey Knights in terms of individual power and numbers.

    Marks of Chaos: Agreed.

    HQ: Lords make sense, Daemon Princes and Sorcerers are a bit of a stretch though. Princes may be daemons now, but I've never seen any indication that they have a special affinity for Possessed - aren't they HS in a Daemons army specifically because other Daemons still look down on them for their mortal origins or something? I don't have the codex handy to check. But I'd be okay with Warpsmiths fiddling with the FoC in some way.

    I'll probably post my own thoughts later, after I've had them.

  3. #3
    Chapter Master Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Army List/Bestiary pt. 2

    HQ, pt. 2

    Chaos Space Marine Chosen

    For each Independent Character or Daemon Prince in your primary detachment, you may take one squad of Chosen. This unit does not take up a Force Organization slot but counts as an HQ slot to all other intents and purposes.

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    Infernal Brute Champion 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 2+/5+
    Hellborne Champion 4 4 4 4 2 4 2 9 3+
    Possessed Champion 4 4 5 4 1 4 2 9 3+/5+
    Raptor Champion 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+
    Outrider Champion 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+
    Aspiring Champion 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+
    Exalted Champion 4 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 3+

    Unit Composition: Between 3 and 10 Champions (see below) Unit Type: Depends (see below)

    Options: The unit may consist of between 3 and 10 of any combination of the following Champions and their wargear:

    Infernal Brute Champion (Infantry, Character): Terminator armor, combi-bolter, power axe, scourge, sword, or maul.
    Hellborne Champion (Cavalry, Character): Power armor, bolter, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, frag grenades, krak grenades, daemonic mount. He may take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.
    Possessed Champion (Infantry, Character): Power armor, two close combat weapon, Daemonic Aura. He may take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.
    Raptor Champion (Jump Infantry, Character): Power armor, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, frag grenades, krak grenades, and jump pack OR daemonic flight. He may take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.
    Outrider Champion: Power armor, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, frag grenades, krak grenades, Chaos Bike. He may take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.
    Aspiring Champion: Power armor, bolter, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, frag grenades, krak grenades. He may take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    Up to one Aspiring Champion may be upgraded to an Exalted Champion. Exalted Champions may take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +10 points each and may select from the Melee, Ranged, Chaos Rewards, Special Issue, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear and Artefact sections of the Books of Chaos. If he selects Terminator Armor, he may no longer select from the Melee and Ranged sections of the Armory, but may select from the Terminator Melee and Terminator Ranged sections of the Armory.

    An Exalted Champion may exchange all wargear for Terminator Armor, combi-bolter, and power axe, scourge, sword, lance, or maul for +40 points. If Veterans of the Long war is taken, may upgrade Terminator armor to Cataphracti Armor for +5 points.

    If he does not take the Mark of Khorne or Tzeentch, the Exalted Champion may become a Mastery Level 1 Psyker for +15 points. If he attains Mastery Level 1 by any means, he may purchase one further Mastery Level for +25 points.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess. The model may take one of the following further upgrades: an Icon of Chaos Glory to Legionary Banner or Sigil of the End Times; Icon of Wrath to Banner of Rage; Icon of Fate to Blasted Standard; Icon of Despair to Dirge of Entropy; Icon of Excess to Rapturous Flag.

    For every full three models in Terminator Armor, one Infernal Brute Champion may exchange his combi-bolter for a heavy flamer or Reaper Autocannon.

    For every full three models in power armor, one
    Outrider Champion may exchange bolt pistol, bolter, or close combat weapon for: meltagun, flamer, heavy flamer, plasma gun,
    Hellborne Champion or Aspiring Champion may exchange bolter for: meltagun, flamer, heavy flamer, plasma gun,
    Raptor Champion may take: melta gun, flamer, heavy flamer, plasma gun,
    OR Aspiring Champion may exchange bolter for: autocannon, missile launcher (with frag, krak, and flakk rounds), lascannon, or heavy bolter.

    The unit may take Veterans of the Long War. The unit may be upgraded with a single Mark of Chaos Undivided, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh. The unit may further be upgraded to Berzerkers, Rubric Sorcerers, Plague Marines, or Noise Marines or, if it does not take any of those upgrades, take one of the following skillsets:
    Special Operations (squads in power armor only): The unit has Stealth, Move Through Cover, and Night Vision, and all bolters, combi-bolters, combi-weapons fired as bolters, and bolt pistols have the Sniper special rule, with the caveat that they do not count as strength 3.
    Forward Positions (Alpha Legion): The unit may Infiltrate, Scout, or Outflank.
    Break Armor (Iron Warriors): The unit gains Split Fire, Tank Hunters, and Haywire Grenades.
    Beast Slayer: The unit gains Monster Hunters and Blind Grenades.
    Arcane Wargear: All weapons in the squad are Master Crafted, and any Blast weapons have Missile Lock.
    Black Crusaders (Word Bearers): The unit gains Crusader, Stubborn, Hammer of Wrath, and Soul Blaze.
    Terror Warriors: Night Vision and Fear; the enemy makes Fear tests at -1 Leadership.
    Precision Strike: Choose the lowest D6 rolled for Scatter distance when Deep Striking. You may reroll on the Mishap table.

    Any Infernal Brute Champion may exchange his Terminator armor for Cataphracti armor for +3 points per model.

    Any Hellborne Champion may upgrade his Steed to: Juggernaut, Disc, Plague Toad, Steed. He may take the Chariot upgrade or, if on a Plague Toad, upgrade his steed to a Palanquin.

    Any Outrider may upgrade his Bike to a Jetbike. He may take the Chariot upgrade.

    Special Rules: Psycho Indoctrination, Fearless (Possessed Champion only), Daemon (Possessed Champion only), Fleet (Possessed Champion and Hellborne Champion only) Champion of Chaos,

    Special Rules: Hardened Veterans: The unit takes Leadership Tests on D6+D3. If forced to take a Leadership test of any kind on more than 2D6, all D6 rolls except the first are converted to D3 rolls.

    Vessels of Chaos: Possessed Champion only. Roll one D3 for all Possessed Champions.

    Deep Strike: Only if the unit is either entirely composed of models in Terminator Armor or entirely composed of models with Jump Packs or Daemonic Flight.

    Troops

    Chaos Space Marine Marauders: Chaos Space Marines regular squad, +5 points standard.

    May add up to fifteen Marauders for +14 points each.

    Any model may exchange his bolter and/or his bolt pistol for a close combat weapon for free.

    Any Marauder may exchange his close combat weapon for a heavy chainsword or chainaxe.

    Up to one Marauder in the squad may make one of the following exchanges:
    Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Bolter for: combi-bolter, meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer.
    If the squad numbers fifteen or more, an additional Marauder may do so.

    If the squad numbers ten or more, up to one Marauder may make one of the following exchanges:
    Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Bolter for: combi-bolter, meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer, missile launcher +15 (comes with flakk missiles), autocannon, heavy bolter, lascannon.
    If the squad numbers twenty, an additional Marauder may do so.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Marauder Aspiring Champions may take a single Gift of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    If it takes the appropriate Mark, the squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Rubric Marines. If the unit does not take these upgrades but has Veterans of the Long War, it may purchase one of the following skillsets:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Crusaders and Stubborn.
    Infiltrate (may not Outflank).
    Tank Hunters.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Chaos Reavers 55 points.

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    Reaver 3 3 4 4 1 3 1 7 4+
    Reaver Champion 4 4 4 4 1 3 1 8 4+

    Unit Type/Size: Infantry (Champion is a Character), one Reaver Champion and four Reavers.

    Wargear: Carapace Armor, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades.

    Options:

    May add up to fifteen Reavers for +9 points apiece.

    Any model may exchange his bolter and/or his bolt pistol for a close combat weapon for free.

    Any model may exchange his close combat weapon for a heavy chainsword or chainaxe.

    The squad may upgrade its carapace armor to power armor for +3 points per model.

    One Reaver may exchange his bolter for: flamer, heavy flamer. If the squad numbers fifteen or more, an additional Reaver may do so.

    If the squad numbers ten or more, one Reaver in the squad may exchange his bolter for: combi-bolter, flamer, heavy flamer, heavy bolter, missile launcher +15 (comes with flakk missiles), autocannon. If the squad numbers a full twenty, an additional Reaver may do so.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    The Reaver Champion may take Gift of Mutation for +5 points.

    The unit may take an Aspiring Champion for +35 points. He may take Gift of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    He may take veterans of the Long War and further be upgraded to: a Berzerker, Plague Marine, Noise Marine, or Rubric Sorcerer. If the Aspiring Champion does not take one of these upgrades but has Veterans of the Long War, the unit may purchase one of the following skill sets, which will be lost if the Aspiring Champion leaves the unit for any reason:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Stubborn and Crusader.
    Scouts (may not Outflank).
    Move Through Cover.

    The Mark of Khorne and Slaanesh, all Cult upgrades, Veterans of the Long War, and skillsets will be inflated in cost due to their benefits being passed on to the squad.

    Special Rules:

    Champion of Chaos (Reaver Champion and Aspiring Champion only), Psycho Indoctrination (Aspiring Champion only)

    Chaos Cultists 40 points

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv

    Cultist 2 2 3 3 1 3 1 6 6+
    Cultist Champion 3 3 3 3 1 3 2 8 6+

    May add up to forty cultists at +3 points per model.

    Any model may exchange his autopistol for an autogun or shotgun at +1 point.

    Any model may exchange his close combat weapon for a heavy chainsword.

    One model may take an Icon of Devotion.

    The Cultist Champion may take a Gift of Mutation for +5 points.

    The unit may take an Aspiring Champion for +35 points. He may take veterans of the Long War and further be upgraded to: a Berzerker, Plague Marine, Noise Marine, or Rubric Sorcerer. He may take Gift of Mutation for +5 points and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    He may take veterans of the Long War and further be upgraded to: a Berzerker, Plague Marine, Noise Marine, or Rubric Sorcerer. If the Aspiring Champion does not take one of these upgrades but has Veterans of the Long War, the unit may purchase one of the following skill sets, which will be lost if the Aspiring Champion leaves the unit for any reason:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Stubborn and Crusader.
    Scouts (may not Outflank).
    Move Through Cover.

    The Mark of Khorne and Slaanesh, all Cult upgrades, Veterans of the Long War, and skillsets will be inflated in cost due to their benefits being passed on to the squad.

    Champion of Chaos (Cultist Champion and Aspiring Champion only), Psycho Indoctrination (Aspiring Champion only)

    Elites:

    Chaos Harbingers (as Chosen are now)

    Any model may exchange his bolt pistol for a close combat weapon for free.

    Any Harbinger may exchange his close combat weapon for a heavy chainsword or chainaxe.

    Up to five Harbingers in the squad may make one of the following exchanges:
    Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Bolter for: meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer, combi bolter, combi-melta, -plas, or -flamer.
    Close Combat Weapon for: Power Lance, Sword, Maul, Scourge, or Axe +10, Power Fist +17, Eviscerator +22, Lightning Claw +10.
    Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon for two Lightning Claws +20.
    If the squad numbers fifteen or more, an additional five Harbingers may do so.

    Up to one Harbinger may make one of the following exchanges:
    Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Bolter for: meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer, combi bolter, combi-melta, -plas, or -flamer, missile launcher +15 (comes with flakk missiles), autocannon, heavy bolter, lascannon.
    Close Combat Weapon for: Power Lance, Sword, Maul, Scourge, or Axe +10, Power Fist +17, Eviscerator +22, Lightning Claw +10.
    Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon for two Lightning Claws +20.
    If the squad numbers twenty, an additional Harbinger may do so.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Harbinger Aspiring Champions may take Gift of Mutation for +5 points and may select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    If it takes the appropriate Mark, the squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Rubric Marines, Plague Marines, Noise Marines. If the unit does not take one of these options, if it has Veterans of the Long War it may additionally purchase one of the following skill sets:

    Special Operations: The unit has Stealth, Move Through Cover, and Night Vision, and all bolters, combi-bolters, combi-weapons fired as bolters, and bolt pistols have the Sniper special rule, with the caveat that they do not count as strength 3.
    Forward Positions (Alpha Legion): The unit may Infiltrate, Scout, or Outflank.
    Break Armor (Iron Warriors): The unit gains Split Fire, Tank Hunters, and Haywire Grenades.
    Beast Slayer: The unit gains Monster Hunters and Blind Grenades.
    Arcane Wargear: All weapons in the squad are Master Crafted, and any Blast weapons have Missile Lock.
    Black Crusaders (Word Bearers): The unit gains Crusader, Stubborn, Hammer of Wrath, and Soul Blaze.
    Terror Warriors: Night Vision and Fear; the enemy makes Fear tests at -1 Leadership.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Chaos Infernal Brutes: Terminators. List that they come armed with a power sword, maul, lance, scourge, or axe.

    If Veterans of the Long war is taken, may upgrade Terminator armor to Cataphracti Armor for +2 points per model.

    One Brute may exchange his combi-bolter for: heavy flamer +10, Reaper Autocannon +15. If the squad numbers ten models, two may do so; if it numbers fifteen, three; if it numbers a full twenty, four.

    Any Brute may exchange his combi-bolter for: combi-melta, plas, or flamer, heavy chainsword, close combat weapon or chainaxe, power sword, maul, scourge, lance, or axe, lightning claw, eviscerator, powerfist, chainfist.

    Any Brute with a combi-bolter or combi-weapon may take a combat attachment.

    Any Brute may exchange his power weapon for: lightning claw, eviscerator, powerfist, chainfist.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Harbinger Brute Aspiring Champions may take Gift of Mutation for +5 points and may select from the Terminator Meelee, Terminator Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    If it takes the appropriate Mark, the squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Rubric Marines, Plague Marines, Noise Marines. If the unit does not take one of these options, if it has Veterans of the Long War it may additionally purchase one of the following skill sets:

    Precision Strike: Choose the lowest D6 rolled for Scatter distance. You may reroll on the Mishap table.
    Forward Positions (Alpha Legion): The unit may Infiltrate, Scout, or Outflank.
    Break Armor (Iron Warriors): The unit gains Split Fire, Tank Hunters, and Haywire Grenades.
    Beast Slayer: The unit gains Monster Hunters and Blind Grenades.
    Arcane Wargear: All weapons in the squad are Master Crafted, and any Blast weapons have Missile Lock.
    Black Crusaders (Word Bearers): The unit gains Crusader, Hammer of Wrath, Stubborn, and Soul Blaze.
    Terror Warriors: Night Vision and Fear; the enemy makes Fear tests at -1 Leadership.

    Psycho-Indoctrination
    Last edited by Imperialis_Dominatus; 14-02-2013 at 08:05.
    Rules - CSM - BA - LatD (when I find my notes)
    Stories - Perish the Weak - Brothers in Chaos - The Baron Rises

  4. #4
    Chapter Master squeekenator's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    That is an interesting idea. So you'd want the whole unit to be Characters? Could make for some drawn out assaults, maybe abuse of Heroic Intervention.
    Oh, right, I forgot that Champion of Chaos is a character-only special rule. Silly me. I was just wanting veteran Chosen and Terminators with WS/BS 5.

  5. #5
    Chapter Master Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Army List/Bestiary pt. 3

    Elites, pt. 2

    Chaos Hellborne

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    Hellborne: 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 3+
    Hellborne Aspiring Champion 4 4 4 4 2 4 2 9 3+

    Unit Type: Cavalry (Aspiring Champion is a Character) Unit Composition: Hellborne Aspiring Champion and 2 Hellborne Chaos Space Marines.

    Wargear: Power armor, frag grenades, krak grenades, bolter (Aspiring Champion only), bolt pistol, close combat weapon, Fell Destrier.

    Options: May add up to seventeen Cavalry.

    Any Hellborne may take a bolter. Any model may exchange bolt pistol for close combat weapon for free. Any Cavalry Chaos Space Marine may exchange any close combat weapon for a chainaxe or heavy chainsword for +x points each.

    Up to three Cavalry in the squad may make one of the following options each:
    Exchange Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Either take or must exchange bolter for: meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer, combi bolter, combi-melta, -plas, or -flamer.
    Exchange Close Combat Weapon for: Power Lance, Sword, Maul, Scourge, or Axe +10, Power Fist +17, Eviscerator +22, Lightning Claw +10.
    Exchange Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon for two Lightning Claws +20.
    If the squad numbers ten or more, an additional three Cavalry may do so. If the squad numbers fifteen or more, an additional three Cavalry may do so. If the squad numbers a full twenty, an additional three Cavalry may do so.

    The squad may take the Mark of Chaos Undivided if it takes no other Mark.

    The entire squad may take one of the following upgrades: Upgrade steeds to Corpse Tide, Mark of Khorne and upgrade steeds to Juggernauts, Mark of Tzeentch and upgrade steeds to Discs of Tzeentch, Mark of Nurgle and upgrade steeds to Plague Toads, Mark of Slaanesh and upgrade steeds to Steeds of Slaanesh.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Hellborne Aspiring Champions may take: meltabombs, a gift of mutation for +5 points, chariot unless on Plague Toad, Palanquin of Nurgle if on Plague Toad, and select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    If it takes the appropriate Mark, the squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Rubric Marines, Plague Marines, Noise Marines. If the unit does not take one of these options, if it has Veterans of the Long War it may additionally purchase one of the following skill sets:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Stubborn and Crusader.
    Scout.
    Jink, or +1 to Jink saves if they would otherwise get one.

    Special Rules: Psycho-Indoctrination, Champion of Chaos (Aspiring Champion only)

    Daemon Wranglers: Note that all members of the squad do not get the full benefits of their mount. This is described more fully in the Books of Chaos, but suffice to say only the Champion is skilled enough to truly master his mount's capabilities. All models without Champion of Chaos in the unit will suffer Dangerous Terrain saves on a result lower than a 4+.

    Charnel Harvester

    WS BS S F S R HP I A

    4 3 5 12 12 10 4 3 2

    Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Walker) Unit Composition: 1 Charnel Harvester.

    Wargear: Two close combat weapons with integral combi-bolters, two close combat weapons, daemonic possession.

    Options: Two close combat weapons and their integral combi-bolters may be replaced with either a pair of magma cutters or lasher tendrils. Any close combat weapon may be exchanged for a chainaxe, heavy chainsword, power sword, axe, maul, or spear, lightning claw, or power scourge. Any combi-bolter may be exchanged for a Reaper Autocannon.

    May be upgraded to a Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh and take equipment from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment list.

    Special Rules: Daemon, Daemonforge, It Will Not Die, Hit and Run

    Red Swathe: The Charnel Harvester may Vector Strike, but instead of being at AP 3 its strikes are at the Strength and AP of one of its Melee weapons, as if it had charged, with applicable special rules.

    Bloody Crop: As long as the Charnel Harvester is alive at the end of the game and has inflicted an unsaved wound on an enemy unit in close combat or by Vector Strike, it is worth one Victory Point. If it is destroyed, the location of its destruction may be secured as an objective for a Victory Point.

    Possessed: Significant price drop. Also I think they should come with two close combat weapons- look at the models! Come with Daemonic Aura.

    For the purposes of Daemon Heart, Vorpal Claws improves AP by 4.

    May be upgraded with Marks of Chaos and to Daemons of Chaos. If the unit becomes Daemons of Tzeentch, the Champion may become a Mastery Level 1 psyker for +15 points. The squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines. If the unit has the Mark of Tzeentch, the Aspiring Champion may be upgraded to a Rubric Sorcerer.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Possessed Aspiring Champions may take up to three Gifts of Mutation for +5 points each and may select from the Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    Mutilators are too expensive or fragile, and should be Fearless. I suggest T5 base.

    Helbrutes

    Helbrutes may take options from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment List, but note that Daemonic Possession is not compatible with Veterans of the Long War and Marks of Chaos.

    May take a single Mark of Chaos. May be upgraded to one of the following if it has the appropriate Mark: Berzerker, Rubric Marine, Plague Marine, Noise Marine. May take Veterans of the Long War.

    If the unit has Veterans of the Long War, it may purchase one of the following skillsets:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Crusaders and Stubborn.
    Tank Hunters.
    Scouts.

    Dedicated Transports:

    Rhinos

    May purchase one of the following skillsets if it does not take Daemonic Possession:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Tank Hunters.

    Tartarus Assault Vehicle

    BS F S R HP

    4 12 12 10 3

    Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Assault, Transport) Unit Composition: 1 Tartarus

    Wargear: Hull-mounted combi-bolter, daemonic possession.

    Options: May replace hull-mounted combi-bolter with a Reaper Autocannon. May take heavy flamer side sponsons. May take equipment from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment list. May be upgraded to a Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh.

    Special Rules: Daemon, Daemonforge, It Will Not Die

    Transport Capacity: 10 models. May not transport Bulky, Very Bulky, or Extremely Bulky models.

    Dreadclaws: Pretty much as per Forgeworld, just in Dedicated Transport section.

    Fast Attack

    Heldrakes

    Heldrakes may take options from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment List. May be upgraded to a Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh.Baleflamer costs points.

    Outriders: Squad +5 points, +2 points per Outrider.

    If it takes the appropriate Mark, the squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines. If it takes the Mark of Tzeentch, the Aspiring Champion and any Psykers may be upgraded to a Rubric Sorcerer.

    Any model may exchange his bolt pistol for a close combat weapon for free.

    Any Outrider may exchange his close combat weapon for a heavy chainsword or chainaxe.

    Up to two models in the squad may make one of the following exchanges:
    Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, or Combi-Bolter for: meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer.
    If the squad numbers ten or more, an additional two Outriders may do so; if it numbers fifteen or more, an additional two Outriders may do so; if it numbers a full twenty, and additional two Outriders may do so.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Outrider Aspiring Champions may take Gift of Mutation for +5 points and may select from the Melee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    If the unit has Veterans of the Long War, it may purchase one of the following skillsets:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Crusaders and Stubborn.
    Skilled Riders.
    Scouts.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Raptors: No inherent Fear rule.

    Any model may exchange his bolt pistol for a close combat weapon for free.

    Any Raptor may exchange his close combat weapon for a heavy chainsword or chainaxe.

    Up to two Raptors in the squad may make take one of the following:
    Exchange Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Take: combi-bolter, meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer.
    If the squad numbers ten or more, an additional two Raptors may do so; if it numbers fifteen or more, an additional two Raptors may do so; if it numbers a full twenty, and additional two Raptors may do so.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Raptor Aspiring Champions may take a Gift of Mutation for +5 points and may select from the Melee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    If it takes the appropriate Mark, the squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines. If it takes the Mark of Tzeentch, the Aspiring Champion and any Psykers may be upgraded to a Rubric Sorcerer. If the unit does not take these upgrades but has Veterans of the Long War, it may purchase one of the following skillsets:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Crusaders and Stubborn.
    Outflank and Acute Senses.
    Move Through Cover.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Chaos Spawn

    Chaos Spawn same but 6+ Armor Save and 3+D3 Attacks.

    Subcutaneous Armor grants +2 to Armor save.

    May be accompanied by up to 4 Chaos Hounds per Spawn in the unit at +6 points each.

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv

    Chaos Hound 3 3 4 3 1 4 1 10 -

    Unit Type: Beast Unit Composition: Up to 4 Chaos Hounds per unit.

    Special Rules: Fearless

    Warp Talons

    Gain +1 Attack and Daemonic Aura. When they drop, they hit all enemy units within 6" with both Blind and Fear.

    May be upgraded to Daemons of Chaos. If the unit becomes Daemons of Tzeentch, the Champion may become a Mastery Level 1 psyker for +15 points.

    Warp Talon Aspiring Champions may take up to two Gifts of Mutation for +5 points each and may select from the Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    Heavy Support

    Maulerfiends

    Maulerfiends may take options from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment List. May be upgraded to a Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh.

    Forgefiends

    Forgefiends may take options from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment List. May be upgraded to a Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh.

    Defiler: Too expensive. May be upgraded to a Daemon of Chaos; if made a Daemon of Tzeentch it gains a Mastery Level.

    Starts with Hades autocannon in chest, with options to upgrade it to an ectoplasma cannon, baleflamer, and battle cannon.

    Obliterators are too expensive or fragile, and should be Fearless. I suggest T5 base.

    Land Raider: Too expensive.

    May purchase one of the following skillsets if it does not take Daemonic Possession:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Tank Hunters.

    Havocs

    Any model may exchange his bolt pistol and/or bolter for a close combat weapon for free.

    Any Havoc may exchange his close combat weapon for a heavy chainsword or chainaxe.

    Up to four Havocs may make one of the following exchanges:
    Bolt Pistol for Plasma Pistol +5 points.
    Bolter for: combi-bolter, meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, heavy flamer, missile launcher +15 (comes with flakk missiles), autocannon, heavy bolter, lascannon.
    If the squad numbers fifteen, an additional three Havocs may do so. If the squad numbers a full twenty, an additional three Havocs may do so.

    One model may take an Icon of Chaos Glory, Wrath, Fate, Despair, or Excess.

    Havoc Aspiring Champions may take a Gift of Mutation for +5 points and may select from the Meelee, Ranged, Special Issue, Chaos Rewards, and Daemonic Gifts sections of the Armory, and from the Wargear sections of the Books of Chaos.

    If it takes the appropriate Mark, the squad may be upgraded to: Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Rubric Marines. If the unit does not take these upgrades but has Veterans of the Long War, it may purchase one of the following skillsets:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Crusaders and Stubborn.
    Tank Hunters.
    Split Fire.

    Psycho-Indoctrination

    Predator

    May purchase one of the following skillsets if it does not take Daemonic Possession:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Tank Hunters.

    Vindicator

    May purchase one of the following skillsets if it does not take Daemonic Possession:
    Night Vision and Fear.
    Tank Hunters.

    Land Raider Desecrator

    BS F S R HP

    4 14 14 14 4

    Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Transport, Assault) Unit Composition: 1 Land Raider

    Wargear: Hull-mounted Inferno Cannon, two sponsons with paired Reaper Autocannons, smoke launchers, searchlights.

    Options: May take options from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment List.

    May purchase one of the following skillsets if it does not take Daemonic Possession: Night Vision and Fear or Tank Hunters.

    Special Rules:

    Transport Capacity: 16 models.

    Land Raider Behemoth

    BS F S R HP

    3 14 14 14 4

    Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Assault, Transport) , Unit Composition: 1 Behemoth

    Wargear: Hull Mounted Hades Autocannon, two Sponson Hades Autocannons, Daemonic Possession, searchlight, smoke launchers.

    Options: May upgrade the hull mounted Hades Autocannon to an Ectoplasma Cannon or a Baleflamer. May upgrade the sponson Hades Autocannons to Ectoplasma Cannons. May be upgraded to a Daemon of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh. May take options from the Chaos Vehicle Equipment List.

    Special Rules: Daemon, Daemonforge, It Will Not Die

    Transport Capacity: 12 models.

    Wargear:

    For the oh-so-cheeky, Grenades of any sort may not be exchanged for weaponry.

    Meelee Weapons

    A model may replace his bolter, bolt pistol, and/or close combat weapon with the following:

    Chainaxe +5/-: Those Wounded by a Chainaxe must reroll successful Armor saves.
    Heavy Chainsword+5
    Power Sword, Maul, Axe, or Spear +15/+5
    Power Scourge: Change to +2 Strength, AP value is 8 minus unmodified Strength value, Flail.
    Lightning Claw +15/+10
    Powerfist +25/+10
    Force Axe, Sword, or Staff +25 /+10**
    Eviscerator +30/-
    *Second costs are for the second purchase of such a weapon.
    **Psykers only.

    Ranged Weapons

    A model may replace his bolter, bolt pistol, and/or close combat weapon with the following:

    Combi-bolter +3
    Combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma +10
    Plasma Pistol +5
    Heavy Flamer +10

    Terminator Ranged:

    A model in Terminator armor may replace his combi-bolter with one of the following:

    Chainaxe, Heavy Chainsword, or Close Combat Weapon +5
    Power Sword, Axe, Spear, Scourge, or Maul +7
    Lightning Claw +17
    Powerfist +22
    Chainfist or Eviscerator +27
    Force Sword, Axe, or Staff +22*
    Combi-melta, -plasma, or -flamer +7
    Heavy Flamer +10**
    Reaper Autocannon +15**
    *Psykers only.
    **Infernal Brute Champions may not take these items.

    Terminator Melee:

    A model may replace his melee weapon with one of the following (unless he is a Warpsmith, Sorcerer, or Dark Apostle)

    Lightning Claw +5
    Powerfist +10
    Chainfist or Eviscerator +15
    Force Sword, Axe, or Stave* +10
    *Psykers only.

    Special Issue Wargear

    Combat Attachment: Models in Terminator armor may take this upgrade for each combi-bolter or combi-weapon they have. Combat attachments grant +1 Attack in close combat as if made by a power axe.
    Melta Bombs**
    Jump Pack*
    Chaos Bike*
    Chaos Jetbike*: Become Jetbike. Mounts a combi-bolter.
    *Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only. May not be taken by Daemon Princes or models in Terminator Armor.
    **May not be taken by Daemon Princes, Possessed Aspiring Champions, and Warp Talon Aspiring Champions.

    Chaos Rewards
    Seal of Corruption*: Provides +1 to an Invulnerable Save or, if the model has no Invulnerable Save, a 6+ Invulnerable Save; will not improve a save to better than 3+. +10 points.
    Aura of Dark Glory*
    Ichor Blood
    Combat Familiar: +5 points. Does not benefit from Smash.
    Spell Familiar**: A psyker with this wargear may reroll when generating psychic powers.
    Chariot*: May be taken by a model with a Bike, Jetbike, or a Steed other than a Plague Toad. Provides +1 Wound and +1 Attack, and +2 Hammer of Wrath attacks if the bearer is eligible to deal them.
    Chaos Armor*: +1 to Armor Save, to a maximum of 2+.
    *Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only. May not be taken by Daemon Princes or models in Terminator Armor.
    **Psykers only.

    Daemonic Gifts A model may choose as many Daemonic Gifts as it has Wounds on its basic profile.

    Daemonic Haste*: Become Beast.
    Daemonic Flight*: Become Jump Infantry.
    Daemonic Aegis**: 2+ Armor save.
    Daemonic Pact**: +1 to an Invunerable Save or, if the model has no Invulnerable Save, he gains a 6+ Invulnerable Save; will not improve a save to better than 3+.
    Daemonic Aura: When charging, the Daemon has assault grenades.
    Daemonic Visage: Fear; enemy suffers -2 to Fear checks.
    Daemonic Onslaught: Hit and Run.
    *You may not take both of these, or combine them with Terminator Armor or any Steed, Bike, Jetbike, or Jump Pack.Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only.
    **Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only.
    Last edited by Imperialis_Dominatus; 14-02-2013 at 18:22.
    Rules - CSM - BA - LatD (when I find my notes)
    Stories - Perish the Weak - Brothers in Chaos - The Baron Rises

  6. #6
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Okay, let's see how well these ideas go down...

    Traits: The Marks of Chaos go a long way to make Cult leaders different enough from other Legion commanders. How about if a Warlord does not have a Mark of Chaos, he may purchase a warlord Trait for 5xthe number needed to get it points? The idea being things like "D3 units get Outflank" is something like 25 points and the Hatred:SM bubble is 5 points seems okay without being too broken to me. It would also allow for proper representation of warlords from the Legions if you so wish. Would it be too much if the same warlord could roll for another warlord trait on top of that? That way you could represent Warlords with their Legion heritage shining through.

    Daemon weapons: I have grown to appreciate the random nature of the Daemon Weapon special rule. In 3.5 it was linked to Ld and you never really saw any kickback from it. As much as the Chaos Lord would like the infallible daemon slave, it shouldn't happen. My gripe with daemon weapons is the lack of variety. My solution: any single weapon may have the Daemon Weapon special rule for +the weapons points cost or 5 points, whichever is greater. This way, we could get rid of the lacklustre Daemon Weapons in the book and just have upgradable ones.

    VotLW: This is fine as is. In fact, it is the single best rule in a rather dull rulebook. I'd be happy to keep this.

    Champions of Chaos: No, no, no. Remove this and start over. Anyone that has read the Night Lords or the Word Bearers books, even the awful Iron Warrior omnibus will be able to point out that it seems rather rare for Chaos Champions to engage in ANY honourable activity, let alone fair fights. Keep the Gift of Mutation idea as purchasable upgrades, but eliminate the Challenge=Boon mechanic altogether.

    HQs to unlock units as Troops: Nice idea, but it seems a bit too close to SM envy for me. CSM players need something to differentiate themselves from SM Chapters rather than making them too similar to them, and their lack of equipment to do this outside of Apocalypse games seems about right. Maybe for the highest ranking of the SCs it would be okay.

    Chosen: Now here I have a slight dilemma, Chosen in 3.5 were rather taxing to work out points costs for but were ideal to show off a unique special unit. Chosen now are incredibly underwhelming and have little to show for their centuries of battle beyond more guns. I propose that Chosen and Terminator units are allowed to take from a small list of USRs (Termies have to pay extra to represent Renegade and Chosen Terminators?) similar to the Legion Veteran upgrades found in FWs HH book. That little bit extra could make all the difference.

    Bikers: Initial comments from here and LGS had me thinking that Bikes are now cheap enough to be almost spammable. Methinks a points increase is in order, maybe 24 pts each bike.

    Cultists: -1 WS and BS, -2 Ld and charge 3 pts a model. Start them of with 2 CCWs and allow them to swap one CCW for something like this list, autopistol, autogun, shotgun or chainaxe for +1 point. Allow for frag grenades to be purchased for +1 pt per model. Allow for a mix of weapons. One Unit Leader may be purchased from the following list, Demagogue (Ld7 Stubborn) Insurgent (+1WS and BS for the unit) or Aspiring Champion (no unit upgrades, but it's a freaking Aspiring Champion!). Points to follow or suggested.

    Icons: Icon of Dismay needs to be something more than Fear. Raptors paying for something they already get? Forget it. Even if it is replacing it with FNP (6+) that would be fine. The others seem okay as well.

    Daemon Princes: Give them a 3+ armour save as standard and allow for a 2+ save to be purchased. Increase to T6. Points increase to follow or be suggested.

    Possessed: 18 pts each. Can't see them being worth more than that.

    That's my initial thoughts, more to follow...

    With regards,
    Dan.

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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Hi there, compiled are my thoughts so far on this google doc.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...PSi1ZqmL4/edit

    I can copy/paste everything if you'd like, however I feel that it's better formatted.

    Personally I feel that Chosen should be a Command squad, much like the Dark Angels have.

  8. #8
    Chapter Master Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Armory, pt. 2

    Chaos Vehicle Equipment

    Combi-Bolter*
    Combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma*
    Heavy Flamer*
    Havoc Launcher
    Dirge Caster
    Blasphemous Rune*: Grants It Will Not Die or, if the model has that rule, grants +1 to It Will Not Die rolls.
    Daemonic Possession
    Extra Armor
    Dozer Blade*
    Parasitic Possession: The vehicle's hull mutates and warps blah blah, may not be combined with Daemonic Possession. I do like your table with some of the seven deadly sins, perhaps something like this: In addition, it will gain a bonus at the beginning of every game turn for that turn only. You may take a Mastery test to choose which result (on Leadership 10) but may not choose the same result two turns in a row. If the test is failed or not taken you must roll a D6 to see which bonus the vehicle has this turn:
    1- Pride: The vehicle immediately recovers from any Crew Stunned or Shaken results it has managed to attain, and it may either remove an immobilized result, restore a destroyed weapon, or regain a Hull Point.
    2- Greed: The vehicle is now Fast; if a Walker, moves as if it is a Beast in cases where it would move as Infantry.
    3- Wrath: The vehicle's ranged weapons, except Ordnance, may fire twice.
    4- Sloth: The vehicle is now Heavy; if a Walker, one non-Ordnance weapon may be fired twice.
    5-Envy: If your opponent fires on the vehicle in his turn, and any unit firing is within range and line of sight of at least one of the vehicle's non-Ordnance weapons, the vehicle may fire with those weapons upon one such unit at the end of your opponent's shooting phase.
    6- Gluttony: If the vehicle causes unsaved wounds in assault or by tank shock it may either remove an immobilized result, restore a destroyed weapon, or regain a Hull Point.
    *Tanks only.
    **Vehicles may take up to two of these.

    Miscellaneous:
    Gift of Mutation: May not be taken by models with the Rubric.
    Blind Grenades: Range 8" S - AP - Blind
    Inferno Cannon: R Template S 6 AP 3 Heavy 1 Torrent.
    Cataphracti Terminator Armor: This upgrade to Terminator Armor provides a 4+ Invulnerable save instead of a 5+, but makes the wearer Slow and Purposeful.

    The Books of Chaos

    General Principles

    Any unit with a Mark or Daemon of Chaos may take an Invulnerable Save (if he has one) against Perils of the Warp attacks.

    All Icons are Teleport Homers and add +1 to combat resolution.

    A vehicle may only take one of the upgrades in the Books of Chaos, and they may not be taken by a vehicle with the Daemon rule.

    Ancient Hatreds

    Units with Marks of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos sometimes interact with each other as Allies of Convenience and Desperation. Pay attention to these relationships! They will drastically affect how your army plays!

    Artefacts

    You are allowed one Artefact of any kind per army, though Daemon Weapons of differing natures may be taken. A given Champion may have up to three Artefacts in any mixture from the ones he is allowed. Daemon Princes, Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only.

    Daemon Weapons

    A Daemon Weapon is an upgrade for a regular weapon that makes it an Artefact. To use a Daemon Weapon, you must pass a Mastery test. It provides +D6 Attacks in close combat, in addition to a Nature of the Beast, chosen from one of the Books of Chaos. Daemon Princes, Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only.

    Psychic Powers

    A Psyker with the Mark of Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh must generate at least one of his powers from the Disciplines of Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh respectively, and may not generate powers from either of the other two tables. You may generate up to half (rounding up) of a psyker's powers from the discipline of Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh as he is allowed.

    Dreaded Titles

    You may take a Dreaded Title for a Daemon Prince or Independent Character. Just like Wargear, they may not be purchased for Unique units, who often have their own. These represent the reputation and specific character of your army's leader. Unlike Paths of Glory, more than one Dreaded Title may be taken and have effect in any given battle. However, a particular Dreaded Title other than Tactical Mastery may only be taken once per army- Chaos is too diverse and anarchic for such similar warlords to exist in proximity to one another without destroying each other.

    Book of Chaos Undivided

    Mark of Chaos Undivided: The unit has Stubborn, or, if the unit is Fearless or a Helbrute, Stubborn is given to units in the same close combat or within 6". Warlords get +2 to keep all results on the Mortal table and the Everchosen and Disciples of Chaos results on the Divine table.

    Dread Titles of Chaos Glory

    The Invincible: Mark of Chaos Glory only.The Champion has proven to be indestructible. Everything from a regiment's output of lasfire to Assassinorum operatives to Deathstrike missiles seems unable to wipe his stain from existence. He has Eternal Warrior.

    The Machinator: The Champion has many cat's paws, spies, and infiltrators to turns his enemies against each other, undermining their confidence in their allies and their cause, sowing confusion and distrust, and, it is hoped, turn some of the enemy to the powers of Chaos. Choose one enemy character at the beginning of the game. The Machinator and the chosen character must both make a Leadership test (regardless of the Fearlessness of the other character- this is a game of subtlety, not raw courage), with the enemy character adding the difference by which the Machinator succeeds to his own result. If the enemy character fails with this modifier, he may not lead units or give them any bonus or exception to Leadership tests and Morale modifiers, and Look Out Sir! rolls suffer a penalty of -1. If the Machinator fails, there is no effect.

    The Thaumaturge: Daemon Princes and Sorcerers only. The Sorcerer is a masterful practitioner of the black arts, riding the swell of the Warp and using it to unleash a devastating barrage of magic on his foes. If the Thaumaturgist rolls doubles for a psychic power and it succeeds, he may take a Psychic test to use it again immediately without expending Warp Charge. If it is a power that affects himself or a friendly unit, he may cast it upon any friendly unit on which the power has not been cast within 12" of the power's maximum range.

    The Fleshsmith: Daemon Princes and Chaos Lords only. The Fleshsmith oversees and performs horrific experiments on his own forces and slaves. He is often practiced in the Apothecary's arts, and has husbanded this skill well to rise to such power in his warband. He and any unit he is with counts as having Combat Drugs. Additionally, one Chaos Space Marine Warriors or Reavers squad which has no Mark other than that of Chaos Glory in your army may roll on the following table before deployment:

    New Men: 2D6 Roll/Effect

    2: It's... Alive?: Replace the unit with one Chaos Spawn for every third member of the squad (rounding up). It cannot hold objectives any longer.

    3-11: Success!: The squad gains +1 Strength and Fearless.

    12: More power, more power!: The squad gains +1 Strength, +1 Toughness and Fearless. However, it may not hold objectives and counts as destroyed at the end of the battle.

    Dirty Fighter: Daemon Princes may not take this Dread Title. The not-so-much-a Champion and his subordinates hardly seek a fair fight; if their enemy challenges their honor that foe will be met with not a stir in their ranks save contemptuous laughter, and if they deign to meet their foes in single combat, their opposite ought to keep a wary eye out lest he receive a stab in the back for his troubles. All Champions of Chaos in your army may choose whether to issue, accept or refuse a challenge. Furthermore, should a Champion of Chaos choose to accept or issue a challenge, for each model by which you outnumber the other side in close combat, you may have the enemy character suffer a Strength 4 WS 3 Rending Attack during that Challenge; if these Attacks are made, the death of that character will not grant you Boons of Chaos and the victory will not count toward combat resolution.

    Wargear of Chaos Undivided

    Legionary Banner: The unit is Fearless, and so are any units within 12" of the Banner.

    Chaos Shrine: Vehicle upgrade. If your enemy scores a penetrating hit, you may force them to reroll the result on the damage table.

    Icon of Chaos Glory: A unit with this Icon may reroll Morale tests.

    Icon of Devotion: This has no benefits other than those all Icons share.

    Personal Icon: If the bearer has no Mark, this is an Icon of Devotion. If the bearer has a Mark, this becomes a corresponding Icon that only affects the bearer. In all cases it does not add +1 to combat resolution.

    Personal Icon: If the bearer has no Mark, this is an Icon of Devotion. If the bearer has a Mark, this becomes a corresponding Icon that only affects the bearer. In all cases it does not add +1 to combat resolution.

    Corpse Tide: Steed that and changes the modlefrom Infantry to Jet Pack Infantry. Champions of Chaos gain +1 Wound. May not be taken by Daemon Princes, Aspiring Champions, or models in Terminator Armor.

    Fell Destrier: Steed that changes the model from Infantry to Cavalry. Champions of Chaos gain +1 Wound. Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only. May not be taken by Daemon Princes or models in Terminator Armor.

    Discipline of Daemonancy:

    1- Terror of the Shadow: Malediction cast at the end of your Movement phase at an enemy unit within 24". Until the beginning of your next Movement phase, the target unit must take a Leadership check at -2 Leadership in order to take cover saves, go to ground, move through terrain that gives cover in any fashion, or count as being in cover when assaulted.

    2- Weaken Barrier: Malediction, cast in your Movement phase at an enemy unit within 18". Any unit arriving through Deep Strike via teleportation (Terminator Armor and Warp Talons), The Key, or Daemonic Summoning within 12" of the target unit will scatter only the distance of the highest D6 rolled. If any model in the target unit casts psychic powers, these will occur Perils of the Warp attacks on any psychic test result of 8 or higher as well as a 2.

    3- Gift of Chaos: Malediction, cast in your assault phase instead of making attacks at an enemy model of your choice the psyker is engaged with. The model must pass a Toughness test. If failed, the model turns into a Spawn under your control exactly as described on a Spawnhood roll on the Chaos Boons table.

    4-Monstrous Willpower: Warp Charge 1. Blessing, range of self or a friendly psyker in the same unit, cast at the beginning of your Movement phase. Gain a Warp Charge point at the beginning of every phase on a 4+ up to maximum number of Warp Charge. Enemies must reroll successful Deny the Witch rolls against this psyker's powers and his Force Weapons have Fleshbane til the beginning of your next turn.

    5-Chains of Torment: Warp Charge 1. May fire as a Witchfire power with an 18" range affecting a whole unit or as a Nova power using the Large Blast template. All affected models move as if they had just made armor saves against a Strikedown weapon and each affected model takes a S5 hit with Ignores Cover.

    6- Wind of Chaos: Witchfire. Strength: X AP: 3 Range: Template, Assault 1 Poisoned (4+). All failed To-Wound rolls may be rerolled.

    Primaris- Doombolt: Witchfire. Strength: 5 AP: 3 Range: 18", Assault 3 Pinning.

    Artefacts of Chaos

    Sigil of the End Times: Chosen with the Mark of Chaos Undivided and/or with the Daemon (but not of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh) only. At the beginning of every turn, choose a result from the Divine Warlord Traits table, taking care never to choose the same result two turns in a row; this result is now in effect in addition to your Warlord's normal trait. Everchosen and Disciples of Chaos will both be centered on your Warlord, and at the end of the game turn the effects will cease (so the effect for units joined by Independent Characters with incompatible Marks will be the same as if he had been slain).

    Daemon Heart: May not be taken by Daemon Princes. The Champion gains +1 Strength, +1 Attack, and the Daemon, Fleet, Fearless, and Daemonvessel rules. He may not pass Fearless, Stubborn, or Crusader to a unit he joins, or lead it, unless the unit has the Daemon special rule; however, if it Falls Back he may leave it as soon as they fail their Morale check. He may further join any friendly unit with the Daemon special rule. He may use only Melee weapons.

    Anointed: The Champion may reroll Invulnerable saves, but at a -1 penalty to the Invulnerable save on the reroll.

    Dimensional Key

    Nature of the Beast

    Godhammer: The weapon has +2 Strength, improves its AP by 1, and has Strikedown and Armorbane.

    Hellfire: Template weapons only; if applied to combi-flamers, the flamer may fire every turn. The weapon has Torrent, +2 Strength, and improves its AP by 1. It still grants +D6 Attacks in close combat, but as if with a close combat weapon.

    Ether Bolts: Ranged, non-Template weapons only; may not be applied to the secondary weapon of a combi-melta or -plasma. The weapon gains 2+D3 shots when it is fired in a Shooting phase at +1 Strength and AP improved by 1. It still grants +D6 Attacks in close combat, but as if with a close combat weapon.

    Kingslayer: Declare which character is bearing this weapon at deployment and note an enemy character; show your opponent this note when the bearer of this weapon is in base to base with that character. The weapon has Fleshbane, improves its AP by 2, and multiplies unsaved Wounds by D3 against this character, roll for each Wound caused. Against all other foes this weapon has +1 Strength and improves its AP by 1.

    Vampyre: The weapon ignores Invulnerable saves and if it causes any unsaved Wounds, upon passing an Initiative test the bearer may recover a Wound per unsaved Wound caused up to his maximum number of Wounds. Test for each unsaved Wound caused.

    Primarch's Curse: The weapon has +2 Strength, Fleshbane, and Curse (as per Black Mace).

    Book of Khorne

    Ancient Hatreds: Units with the Mark/Daemon of Khorne treat units with the Marks/Daemon of of Tzeentch and Nurgle as Allies of Convenience, and units with the Mark/Daemon of Slaanesh as Desperate Allies. For Ancient Hatred purposes, units with Destroyer Blades have the Mark of Khorne.

    Mark of Khorne: Gives Preferred Enemy (All), Counterattack, and Champions of Chaos gain Adamantium Will. Warlords gain +2 to retain choices on the Mortal table and +2 to retain Skulls for His Throne on the Divine table.

    Daemon of Khorne: Daemons of Khorne have Furious Charge and Hatred (Daemons of Slaanesh). A Heldrake with Daemon of Khorne will Vector Strike with 1+D6 hits instead of 1+D3. Any unit assaulting from a Behemoth with Daemon of Khorne will count as having assault grenades. Warlords gain +2 to retain choices on the Mortal table and +2 to retain Skulls for His Throne on the Divine table, but this is not cumulative with the Mark of Khorne bonus. A model may not become a Daemon of Khorne if it has the Mark of Chaos Glory, Slaanesh, Nurgle, or Tzeentch.

    Berzerkers: Some units with the Mark of Khorne may further be upgraded to Berzerkers. Berzerkers have +1 WS, +1 Attack, Rage, and Fearless, and may upgrade close combat weapons to chainaxes for free. Berzerkers units will be an Elites choice unless your Warlord has the Mark/Daemon of Khorne. A model may only become a Berzerker if it has the Mark of Khorne.

    Instead of upgrading their weaponry to special or heavy weapons, the same number of Berzerkers may choose to exchange any one weapon for a power axe, sword, maul, spear, scourge or lightning claw for +10 points, powerfist for +20 points, eviscerator for +25 points, or exchange two weapons for a pair of lightning claws for +20 points.

    Dread Title of Khorne

    The Butcher: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. The Butcher is infamous for his bloodlust, and the lengths to which it fuels his body to inhuman heights of destruction. For every unsaved Wound this character causes in a given player turn (even those affecting himself!), this character gains +1 Attack in the next Assault phase.

    Wargear of Khorne

    Destroyer Blades: Vehicle upgrade. Any unit that assaults, makes a Death or Glory attack against, or is assaulted or Tank Shocked by a vehicle with Destroyer Blades suffers, in addition to any other effects, 2+D3 S X AP - hits resolved at I 3 in assault. X is the model's Front Armor value minus 7.

    Icon of Wrath: Gives the unit Furious Charge. Allows you to reroll charge distances. May not be taken by units with the Mark of Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Nurgle.

    Juggernaut of Khorne: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. Steed that provides +1 Toughness and changes the Champion from Infantry to Cavalry. Champions of Chaos gain +1 Wound. Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only. May not be taken by models in Terminator Armor.
    Last edited by Imperialis_Dominatus; 14-02-2013 at 18:25.
    Rules - CSM - BA - LatD (when I find my notes)
    Stories - Perish the Weak - Brothers in Chaos - The Baron Rises

  9. #9
    Chapter Master squeekenator's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    I don't want to take the mechanic out, because it seems fluffy for those spiteful, prideful reasons, but I also understand where you're coming from (Night Lords famously despise a fair fight). Where else would you apply the Boon mechanic were it not in challenges?
    Perhaps one of the warlord traits could be a dirty fighter one? Take away the mandatory challenging, maybe if you do accept a challenge other nearby models can be dishonourable and hit the enemy character while his back's turned, or perhaps you suffer no penalties for refusing a challenge. Saves you from having to challenge people and discourages your enemies from trying to tie up your big nasty characters by challenging them, so it's probably useful enough as a warlord trait to be worth taking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    It seems to me this does little to bring back Chosen, but further isolates Chosen as just our Company Veterans.
    It's a tricky balance to find; Chaos Marines are ultimately just evil Space Marines (plus a few blessings and mutations here and there) and so there should be parallels, but you don't want to make them too similar or else they just end up bland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    I'd be okay with Conscript stats for an even lower price for them. More options would be nice too, though Chainaxes at AP4 is a little iffy- too cheap and they're a no-brainer, too expensive and they're like the specials are now. Frags and shotguns would be nice, though the frags- they're not dedicated troops, they're mooks off the street, meatshields. If a bunch die in the first round of combat, there's more where they came from. I see no reason we can't give them a mix of the given choices (autopistol/ccw or autogun) as the rules stand now.

    Ultimately I think a Cultist unit with a selection of possible leaders and specialties belongs more in a Lost and the Damned list than a Chaos Space Marine focused one. What do you think, Squeekenator?
    It'd be amusing to see a cultist try to lift a chainaxe, but I think they are in the end Space Marine weapons, not human ones. I can see your point about cultists with lots of options and attention lavished on them as being more a LatD thing. If GW were to put a bigger emphasis on cultists and mutants I'd be happy, but since we're stepping into the realm of homebrew anyway there are plenty of LatD codexes already out there waiting to be used. Especially with allies rules it's not really necessary for a CSM codex to have detailed rules for cultists and other human traitors.

    vladsimpaler: I like Khorne not being specifically about assault, and upgrading the cult troops to wear terminator armour seems to work well enough.

  10. #10
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    Since this is a power-armor focused Codex, I agree that the Prince should probably start out with power armor, and since they took Eternal Warrior to no rhyme or reason, T6 makes sense in light of... Mephiston. Also Ld 9 makes no sense to me for the Prince. Also Fleshmetal/Daemon Armor/Chaos Armor, et al, being thoroughly absent from our options didn't sit well with me.

    However, even with his unfounded price hike this Codex, with those bonuses to start with he's probably going to need another. So, give the Prince power armor, T6, and +1 Ld to start. How many points?
    Honestly, the big one is T6. I don't mind him losing Eternal Warrior if Daemon Princes are T6.

    Coming from a "Realms of Chaos" mindset, not all Daemon Princes are Chaos Space Marines, so I feel that Power Armor should remain an option instead of required. Possibly giving "Veterans of the Long War" as an upgrade for 5 points would be interesting as well. I know that they already have it base, but if we made them LD9 base and then put in Vets of the Long War, that'd be cool too.

    With just T6, I would say that we should increase the price to 160. Most weapons wound on a 5 against it, and now they'd wound on a 6. It also prevents the derp of being killed by Str10. I still feel that Force Weapons should be a thread. If you wanted to do the whole "she-bang", then I'd cost it at 175 for power armor, +1T, and +1 LD.

    The statline would thus look: WS9 BS5 S6 T6 W4 I8 A5 LD10 SV3+/5++ for 175 points, and then you also have to do the upgrade to one of the four gods so the total cost would end up being 185+.


    vladsimpaler, I'll have to get to that document and give it a read. If anyone else has time to give it feedback, go ahead and post it.
    Sounds good! I really like what you have out so far, and I wanted to help contribute a bit.


    Regarding Legions
    How I've worked it in my document is that purchasing the "Veterans of the Long War" gives you the ability to give your guys a special rule for an additional cost. So far I have it so that you can give your guys Deepstrike, Infiltrate, or Tank Hunters. It's kinda expensive so I may tone down the points a bit.

    For Veterans, I also gave them the option for Stealth for a small point increase as well, but the Vets are already 21 points per! Though they are WS5 A2 and LD10.

    Also thanks Squeekenator! I went through all of the possible options but that was the one that I was happiest with in the end.

  11. #11
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    The execution of Warlord Traits has been thus far a points-free mechanic- it's more something built into your army than bought. One thing I have taken from Son of Sanguinius' work is a parallel to Space Wolf Sagas- Dread Titles, a bonus rule you pay for for your HQ choices. That might be a good spot for the Soulblaze, SM Hate bubble, etc- I feel like those are kind of lackluster, as a Warlord trait should really affect your whole army.

    Being able to purchase a Trait, guaranteed, and then roll for another one seems easily abused. Take an optimal CSM trait and couple it with a strategic trait from the rulebook, for example.
    Hm. Nice idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    I understand, but I feel like it should be a test instead of a roll. What I was thinking was, maybe a Leadership test to use; on any success on doubles you suffer a savable Wound, on failure you suffer Perils of the Warp with the reduction to WS1 penalty, and each time you fail you suffer -1 to the next test to use the weapon. So there's a significant chance to hurt yourself, balanced with the current rewards. How does that sound?

    I had a similar idea about just making Daemon Weapons upgrades for wargear purchases. Like, Black Mace as an upgrade for Power Maul, Needle of Desire/Blissgiver for close combat weapon, or something like that. Is it the way Daemon Weapons have been executed this Codex, or the way they have been executed in the past few Codices that seems lackluster to you?

    For the upgrade path, it seems in most cases that doubling the weapon's cost is going to be the cost gone with. Could it be applied to ranged weapons, and what effect might that have (maybe +D3 shots)? This could get complicated quickly.
    My problem with current daemon weapons is that there are two of them. One of them is only available to MoK HQs. There should be some variety in terms of what the weapons acually are. Your idea of further upgrades for daemon weapons seems nice, maybe even have a small chart with daemon weapon rules like Fleshbane maybe? That could produce some rather broken combos though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    It's just as unlikely as an Eldar Farseer doing the same, or a particularly Morky Warboss. I'd say Champions in the Legions would be driven to accept and give challenges out of spite and pride, to show their prowess over the lesser races and the Emperor's lapdogs. Perhaps, as one of those generic Warlord Traits, Champions of Chaos in your army get some sort of underhanded Heroic Intervention that results in a sneak attack on the enemy character, or allows you to forfeit that "Get Him, Boss" rule to get attacks in on enemy models during a challenge.

    I don't want to take the mechanic out, because it seems fluffy for those spiteful, prideful reasons, but I also understand where you're coming from (Night Lords famously despise a fair fight). Where else would you apply the Boon mechanic were it not in challenges?
    Spite and pride are fine motivators, but what amount of pride would force a champion to fight a monstrous creature or something significantly more powerful than you? If I were to keep the mechanic, it would be as an incentive to challenge rather than being forced upon the player. In all honesty, the Challenge mechanic is a mess as it stands. I'd rather just allow players to purchase random abilities for a points cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    How about just making those units scoring?
    Sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    It seems to me this does little to bring back Chosen, but further isolates Chosen as just our Company Veterans.
    To be honest, that's pretty much all they are. At least with some adaptability they can be slightly more distinct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    I agree. Probably more like 22 points- 5 points between them and Raptors adds up. 24 if we got Scout or something- which would fit, given their background as outriders.
    Scout as a purchasable upgrade maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    I'd be okay with Conscript stats for an even lower price for them. More options would be nice too, though Chainaxes at AP4 is a little iffy- too cheap and they're a no-brainer, too expensive and they're like the specials are now. Frags and shotguns would be nice, though the frags- they're not dedicated troops, they're mooks off the street, meatshields. If a bunch die in the first round of combat, there's more where they came from. I see no reason we can't give them a mix of the given choices (autopistol/ccw or autogun) as the rules stand now.

    Ultimately I think a Cultist unit with a selection of possible leaders and specialties belongs more in a Lost and the Damned list than a Chaos Space Marine focused one.
    You think that chainaxes would be a bit much? Maybe heavy chainblades? I don't know if a LatD list is on the cards, but I still think that a small entry to promote Cultists in this way is nothing but a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    Despair. And frankly, I think some of the Icons are too powerful for what they are (a snipe-able guy with a stick), and several are too weak. Tzeentch gives Soul Blaze... which is more an annoyance than a boost, and follows the pewpew magic missile trope, which might be okay if that wasn't the entirety of Tzeentch's character in this Codex. Fear is, as said, pretty useless against most armies. Khorne gives Furious Charge, kind of middling these days. On the other end of the spectrum we've got Fearless and Feel No Pain. A little uneven.

    Again, the way I'd reformat it is Icon>Mark>Cult (if eligible). It makes a lot more sense to me- Icon represents trying to get your God's attention, Mark represents having that attention (and maybe still carrying around the stick), Cult represents giving all your attention to your God, so to speak.
    It would simply be nice for Icons to be useful in any situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    Since this is a power-armor focused Codex, I agree that the Prince should probably start out with power armor, and since they took Eternal Warrior to no rhyme or reason, T6 makes sense in light of... Mephiston. Also Ld 9 makes no sense to me for the Prince. Also Fleshmetal/Daemon Armor/Chaos Armor, et al, being thoroughly absent from our options didn't sit well with me.

    However, even with his unfounded price hike this Codex, with those bonuses to start with he's probably going to need another. So, give the Prince power armor, T6, and +1 Ld to start. How many points?
    If we use the Dreadknight for comparison, we'd be looking at the same cost with possibly a reduction of -20 points. Don't have the codex at hand, but that would be my starting point. After that, maybe adjusting the marks would be next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    I do agree that they kind of need a price drop. Maybe not that far. They're a unit of S5 Aspiring Champions in stats with an Invuln and a boost when they get into combat.
    The sad truth is that assault troops are now being sidelined in favour of heavy firepower, hence my rather heavy-handed price cuts.

    With regards,
    Dan.

  12. #12
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeKay View Post
    Hm. Nice idea.
    My problem with current daemon weapons is that there are two of them. One of them is only available to MoK HQs. There should be some variety in terms of what the weapons acually are. Your idea of further upgrades for daemon weapons seems nice, maybe even have a small chart with daemon weapon rules like Fleshbane maybe? That could produce some rather broken combos though.
    I wrote a Legions of Khorne book a while back, and this is exactly how Daemon Weapons worked:

    Quote Originally Posted by Legions of Khorne
    Daemon Weapons
    Daemon Weapon begins in one of the following power weapon forms: Axe, Lance, Maul, or Sword.
    All Daemon Weapons have the Daemon Weapon special rule:
    At the beginning of the Fight Sub-Phase, roll a D6. On a 1 the daemon rebels and the model takes a wound with no Armor saves allowed, and is WS1 until the end of the phase. Regardless of the roll, the model gains that many additional attacks until the end of the phase.

    Daemon Weapon Attributes:
    In addition to the Daemon Weapon Special Rule, all Daemon Weapons have 2 attributes chosen from the list below. An attribute may only be chosen once.
    1. Savagery: The model rolls 2D6 for its attacks instead D6 for its Daemon Weapon and chooses the highest. If double 1's are rolled, the model directs all of its attacks against itself if in a challenge or alone, or against the nearest friendly unit within 3” in close combat.
    2. Shrieking: The model causes Fear, all LD tests from Fear are taken on 4d6 taking the 2 highest.
    3. Aura: +1 to the wielder's Invulnerable save
    4. Hacking: This model always hits on a 2+ in close combat
    5. Warp Time: The model strikes at one higher initiative step than normal, after modifiers (to a maximum of Initative Step 10)
    6. Piercing: Subtract 1 from the weapon's AP
    7. Strong: +1 Strength
    8. Devastator: All unsaved wounds are multiplied into D3 wounds
    Also I believe we should add in Chaos Weapons, which are basically the Daemonblades from the GK codex with some stuff added/subtracted
    Chaos Weapons
    A Chaos Weapon is a two handed close combat weapon. Before deployment, roll 2d6 twice for the Chaos Weapon’s attributes. If the same result is rolled twice, you may choose the second power. In addition, if in a challenge a model with a Chaos Weapon causes one or more unsaved wounds to its opponent, the enemy model must take a Toughness test. If it fails, the enemy is automatically slain and replaced with a Chaos Spawn as if it rolled the Chaos Spawn attribute on the Chaos Boon table.
    2-3: Warpflame: +3 Strength
    4: Unholy Speed: +3 Attacks
    5: Etherblade: The Chaos Weapon ignores armor
    6: Vampyre: The bearer gets +1 wound for each unsaved wound dealt
    7: Degeneration: A successful to-wound score from this model with this weapon reduces the enemy's Armor save by 1 permanently, this is calculated before AP values are taken into account.
    8: Entrancing: Enemy models within 2” attack at one Initiative step less, to a minimum of Initiative Step 1.
    9: Fiery Blast: Chaos Weapon attacks have the Soul Blaze rule, and the model counts as being armed with a Heavy Flamer.
    10: Poisonous: Poisoned 3+
    11-12:Psychic Destroyer: Wounds models with a Psychic Mastery Level on a 2+. Any Psyker dealt an unsaved wound reduces its Mastery level by 1 permanently, to a minimum of Psychic Mastery 1
    Keep in mind that I wrote these from a Khorne-oriented perspective so they would have to be modified for an all-rounder codex.



    The sad truth is that assault troops are now being sidelined in favour of heavy firepower, hence my rather heavy-handed price cuts.

    With regards,
    Dan.
    Agree with this 100%. Khorne Berzerkers as they are now are also probably overcosted by at least 2 points.

  13. #13
    Chapter Master squeekenator's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by vladsimpaler View Post
    Coming from a "Realms of Chaos" mindset, not all Daemon Princes are Chaos Space Marines, so I feel that Power Armor should remain an option instead of required.
    True, but as this is Codex: Chaos Space Marines I think it's reasonable for the non-marine Princes to stick to Codex: Chaos Daemons. If you really want to add them into a CSM army you can ally them in.

    A few thoughts:
    - I've always been a bit confused by the mini disciplines available to marked psykers; it seems to be a disservice to the Chaos Gods, particularly Tzeentch, that they don't get the full 7 powers.
    - The ability to create Tzeentch sorcerer lords via the scrolls of Magnus is nice, but I'd rather see any character with the MoT have the option to buy at least ML1, rather than relying on a unique and rather fancy piece of wargear.
    - Daemon weapons are tricky; I feel that they should all be truly impressive weapons. The bound essence of a greater daemon giving nothing but a few bonus attacks feels a bit underwhelming; I like the current system of each daemon weapon having its own unique powers in addition to the extra attacks. Additional special abilities and bonuses also let you make daemon weapons really big, expensive and powerful; I don't know if I'd pay more than about 15-20 points to add daemon weapon onto an existing close combat weapon, but that would make them feel far too accessible.

  14. #14
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    My opinions:

    Chaos Lords should be beasts. They are often as old as the Primarchs or Phoenix Lords and have cashed in their future for present material power. Terminators and veterans should be beasts as they will always be the oldest non lord chaos marines.

    Then there should be the 'rabble', which I see as the bastard recruits of the legions. They are given patchwork armour ala Wulfen and thrown at the enemy ala Blood Claws. They are not expected to survive.

    So something like this:

    Chaos Lord
    WS7 BS6 S4 T4 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv 2+

    Plus boons of the long war.

    Long War Veterans
    WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ (that's the imperial librarian statline isn't it? or are they I5?). These can be terminators or normal guys. Get skills when not terminators (terminators could use the skills they have, but are too restricted in the armour they're wearing to use them).

    The 'normal' chaos marine is WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv 3+ and this represents seasoned chaos marines that while not as old as the veterans, are nevertheless more experienced than most imperials.

    Then there're the rabble: WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv 3+. I would consider these the 20 man Troops choices chaos marines currently have. Tey are the recruits used like blood claws.



    So the core of a chaos marine army would be Rabble packs (pick a better name), supported by small 10 man squads of seasoned marines (both would be troop choices but only the rabble would come in 20s).


    So what you get is a dichotomy of units - the high end elites/HQs are beasts, while the troops are fairly rubbish. This allows for the clear experience/power split that is evident in the chaos marine ranks to play out. You can choose to take seasoned marines if you want, ignoring the rabble, to represent a more legion-y force, or take rabble units backed up by the remnants of a legion to show the effects of the long war.

    Hellebore
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  15. #15
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    I agree with Hellbore that a Veteran unit from the long war should really exist, and more recent converts should also. I think that it should have a lot of customisable but exclusive options (i.e. if you take Termi armour, then you can't access Infiltrate, stealth, etc) should be assigned to the veterans squad (take 1-2 of:...). I would also just go flat out and add a cult terminator unit from the four big gods as a 0-1 choice in the elites, with the restriction on numbers unlocked by the appropriate lord. Exact same as the troop cult choices, but with terminator armour. Berserkers would of course have power axes, and T'sons would have combi bolters. Noise marines are the hardest, but I would allow the same upgrades as the cult unit, but at the double the cost (for a first draft). To give an initial cost, I would take the cult entry, add 30 points per model and adjust from there (I suspect that Plague marines would be accurately costed, but the others a little overcosted).

    Daemon engines I would also reformat into 2 customisable choices. I would have a flyer option and ground option.

    The ground unit can have upgrades on attacks, range weapons, close combat weapons, armour to enable it to be any of the three ground daemon engines currently available but also to allow Chaos to be more chaotic and be a complete converter's paradise. Similarly, the aerial unit would have a set of upgrades to make it range from a posssessed fighter that flys like an aircraft (like the Hell Talon) or to make it a roaring dragon if you are so inclined.

    On the daemon weapons suggestions, I love the idea of it involving a leadership test and I would make the abilities runes. Each rune added to the daemon weapon beyond the first two makes it increasingly potent, but makes the leadership tests -1 for each rune. Suddenly you have the capabilities of creating a truly monstrous weapon, but you may struggle to control it. Certain special characters can be allowed daemon weapons with extra runes and no penalties to represent why they are special (Abbadon, Kharn, I'm looking at you)

    I disagree that Daemon princes should have optional power armour. The focus is Chaos marines here, and the daemon princes that are likely to ally with them are going to be former marines themselves. IF they are not marines ascended, then it should come as an ally from the daemons codex.
    Warhammer Armies: Empire, Night Goblins, Dwarves, Daemons of Chaos
    40K Armies: Chaos, Imperial Guard, Ultramarines, Chaos Daemons, Tyranids, Tau
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  16. #16
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    I have many background disagreements with the Chaos Codex, meaning that I think certain units (Chaos Lord, for example) are really watered down in order to justify a low points cost. But I could spend ages writing about that, so I'll focus on trying to improve bad units.

    Army-Wide Problems
    Warlord Traits
    - Boring, and only useful in certain situations. This is more a problem with the whole mechanic in 40k itself.

    Icons
    - I really don't understand the point. Psuedo-cult units? Lose them.

    Flexibility
    - For cramming all legions and renegades into a single codex, the FOC changes very little. Warlord should unlock cult units, raptors, bikers, terminators, possessed, etc, as Troops.

    Veterans of the Long War
    - The only army in the game that has to pay for its army-wide rule? Replace it with a Black Legion rule and have a system, unlocked either by characters or already usable, where the rule can be replaced with other Legion/Chapter rules. Then, ideally, have Marks replace that rule.

    Unit Specific Problems
    Demon Prince
    - Not durable enough to survive being taken on foot. Add 1 to invulnerable save, or add 1 to Toughness. At 145 points, I would not be against both.
    - Options are boring. Demon of WhateverGod options need to be improved.

    Chosen
    - Really boring and ineffective for points costs. An overpriced delivery system for meltaguns and flamers.

    Possessed
    - Unreliable assault unit. Vessels of Chaos should be replaced with rending claws. Point costs and marks costs need to come down.

    Mutilators
    - Expensive and nowhere near tough enough to get into assault. Stats should go up to Ogryn level.

    Khorne Berserkers
    - Ineffective assault unit for an elite slot. Chain axes should be either rending or +1 Strength. Unit should have 2 Attack base.

    Thousand Sons
    - Expensive and ineffective for an elite slot. Should be 19 points, with option for Heavy Bolter or Autocannon.

    Plague Marines
    - A little expensive. Need to be 22 points.

    Warp Talons
    - Ineffective and expensive. Need to add 1 to Attacks. Need either +1 Ld or Fearless.

    Obliterators
    - Too expensive. Either come down in price or go back up to Ogryn stats.

    Defiler
    - Too expensive.
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  17. #17
    Chapter Master squeekenator's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Sanguinius View Post
    Veterans of the Long War
    - The only army in the game that has to pay for its army-wide rule? Replace it with a Black Legion rule and have a system, unlocked either by characters or already usable, where the rule can be replaced with other Legion/Chapter rules. Then, ideally, have Marks replace that rule.
    So... Legion Tactics? Could work, if you introduced a character for each legion to grant that legion's ability (and frankly, each legion should have at least one special character). But VotLW being an upgrade rather than an army-wide special rule is fine by me, because not all Chaos Marines are, in fact, veterans of the long war. It'd be silly if they all got it.

  18. #18
    Chapter Master Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Book of Khorne, pt. 2

    Artefacts of Khorne

    Brazier of Burning Blood: Chosen with the Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. If units within 18" are in a combat wherein they had been eligible to use Rage, Counterattack, or Hatred in the first round of said combat, those units apply those rules in every Fight sub-phase in which the combat is in range of this Icon. The Chosen with this Icon have Rampage.

    Collar of Khorne: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. The Champion gains +3 to Deny the Witch rolls and furthermore has a 2+ Invulnerable Save that may be taken only against the effects of Witchblades and Bedlam and Force weapons. His unit must take Deny the Witch rolls against friendly powers, however.

    Corrupted Butcher's Nails: Berzerkers only. The Champion gains +1 Ballistic Skill, +1 Weapon Skill, and +D3 Attacks (roll every Fight sub-phase). In any turn where this model fails to kill an enemy model, one friendly model in its unit takes an immediate hit from one of this model's melee weapons; if there are no available such models, this hit is directed against the Champion.

    Slaughtertome: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. Keep track of the number of models killed by units with Daemon/Mark of Khorne. Consult the following chart; these effects are cumulative and affect units with Daemon/Mark of Khorne within 12".

    0-7- Unworthy: No effect.

    8-15- Slayers: Roll an additional D6 for charge range and discard the lowest of all dice rolled.

    16-23- Bloodthirsty: Gain +1 Attack.

    24+- Seas of Blood: Ignore Armor saves.

    Bracer of Fangs: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. The Champion gains +1 Weapon Skill and every time an enemy model rolls a 1 to hit him or his unit, the attacking model receives a Strength 4 hit with no AP.

    Eradicator Idol: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. The model and the unit he is with may fire one more weapon than normally possible whenever they fire; if a model affected has no additional ranged weapon to fire it adds +1 to the number of shots fired by its ranged weapons. The Champion and his unit further gain Relentless. If he is a Daemon Prince, these effects extend to himself and a single unit within 6".

    Talisman of Pure Fury: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. Hewn from the broken mail links and plates of a mighty Bloodthirster's armor, this dull charm has significant channeling capability to give warriors great strength in battle. The Champion and his unit have +1 Strength, ignore Two-Handed and will count Combat Attachments as simply power axes. If he is a Daemon Prince, these effects extend to himself and a single unit within 6".

    Gauntlet of the Slayer: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. If this model is involved in a Challenge and deals unsaved Wounds in excess of the number needed to kill his enemy, an enemy unit also involved in the conflict takes a number of hits at the character's unmodified Strength with no AP equal to the number of excess unsaved Wounds dealt.

    Nature of the Beast

    Bloodshedder: Mark or Daemon of Khorne only. Weapon has +2 Strength, improves AP by 1, roll 2D6 for bonus Attacks and choose the highest, user is at -1 Weapon Skill and -1 Ballistic Skill.

    Book of Tzeentch

    Ancient Hatreds: Units with the Mark/Daemon of Tzeentch treat units with the Marks/Daemon of Khorne and Slaanesh or as Allies of Convenience, and units with the Mark/Daemon of Nurgle as Desperate Allies. For the purposes of Ancient Hatreds, a unit with this upgrade has the Mark of Tzeentch.

    Mark of Tzeentch: The Mark of Tzeentch is applied in cost to the Helbrute, Independent Character, or Champion(s) of Chaos in a given unit at +15 points per model. A Helbrute or Champion of Chaos gains the Helbrute or Champion of Chaos Mastery Level 1, the Psyker (and Psychic Pilot for Helbrutes) special rule(s), and access to Tzeentchian psychic tables. Any Psyker with the Mark of Tzeentch may access any psychic table in the rulebook, Daemonancy, and the Lore of Tzeentch. Additionally, any model in a unit containing a Champion of Chaos with the Mark of Tzeentch may make the following weapon swaps: meltagun for Mastery Level 1; if taken, such models may further exchange close combat weapon for force axe, sword, or staff for +20 points; in Harbinger Brute squads, any model may make the following weapon swaps: heavy flamer for Mastery Level 1; if taken, such models may further exchange a power fist for a force sword, staff, or axe. Any Helbrute may exchange any powerfist for a force axe, sword, or staff.

    Warlords gain +2 to retain choices on the Mortal table and +2 to retain Architect of Fate on the Divine table.

    Daemon of Tzeentch: Daemons of Tzeentch may reroll all Invulnerable saving throws of 1 and have Hatred (Daemons of Nurgle). A vehicle with Daemon of Tzeentch gains Psyker (Mastery Level 1) and the Psychic Pilot special rule. Daemons of Tzeentch may access any psychic table in the rulebook, Daemonancy, and the Lore of Tzeentch. Warlords gain +2 to retain choices on the Mortal table and +2 to retain Architect of Fate on the Divine table, but this is not cumulative with the Mark of Tzeentch bonus. A model may only become a Daemon of Tzeentch if it does not have the Mark of Khorne, Nurgle, or Slaanesh.

    Rubric of Ahriman: This further upgrade to the Mark of Tzeentch gives some or all models in specific units Fearless and Inferno Bolts. Models without the Psyker special rule, except for Hellborne, gain +1 Wound and Relentless, subject to The Sorcerer Commands; Hellborne gain the Brotherhood of Psykers special rule. Rubrics units will be an Elites choice unless your Warlord has the Mark/Daemon of Tzeentch. Models with the Psyker special rule may become Mastery Level 2 at +25 points per Champion of Chaos and +15 points per other Psyker. A unit may only become Rubric Marines if its Champion has taken the Mark of Tzeentch.

    The Sorcerer Commands: If no Psykers with the Mark of Tzeentch are within 12" of a unit with the Rubric of Ahriman, it will be Slow and Purposeful and fight as if under Night Fighting conditions.

    Dread Title of Tzeentch

    The Diabolist: Daemon/Mark of Tzeentch only. The Diabolist is the penultimate sorcerer. He wields his powers with supreme skill and control and his daemonic pacts are numbered many more than is sane or safe, even by the deranged standard of such things. If your opponent attempts to counter, with Deny the Witch, psychic hoods, or other similar abilities, a Diabolist's Psychic powers in any way, you may subtract or add D3 from or to any one roll he or you have to make.

    Wargear of Tzeentch

    Warpflame Gargoyles: Vehicle upgrade. A unit's weapons have Inferno Bolts (for Bolt Weapons) or Soulblaze.

    Inferno Bolts: Mark of Tzeentch only. Opponent must reroll successful Armor, Invulnerable, and Cover saves against Inferno Bolts (which apply to all Bolt weapons).

    Icon of Fate: At the beginning of every game turn, you must choose to reroll one of the following types of rolls for each unit carrying an Icon of Fate. The effect lasts until the beginning of the next game turn. May not be taken by units with the Mark of Nurgle, Khorne, or Slaanesh.

    1- Skill: All to-hit rolls.

    2- Shield: All saving throws.

    3- Will: All psychic tests.

    Disc of Tzeentch: Daemon/Mark of Tzeentch only. Steed that changes the model from Infantry to Jetbike. Champions of Chaos gain +1 Strength to Force Weapons and +1 Wound. Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only. May not be taken by models in Terminator Armor.

    Discipline of Tzeentch:

    1- Boon of Mutation: As is, but instead of taking a hit the target model must take a Mastery test.

    2- Empathic Barter: Warp Charge 1. Blessing, range self or a model within 6", cast in the Movement phase. May subtract D3 from any single characteristic of the target model in order to add D3 (rolled separately) to a different characteristic of the target model. You may also use this to add Strength to a Ranged weapon. The effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

    3- The Key: Conjuration, cast at the beginning of your Movement phase on the psyker and/or his unit. Remove the unit and redeploy immediately by Deep Strike. If you suffer a Perils of the Warp attack but the power succeeds, remove the unit and roll on the Mishaps table.

    4- Prescient Gaze: Warp Charge 2. Blessing, cast at the beginning of your Movement phase. May give all units in your army Interceptor or a single unit within 18" Interceptor and Skyfire. The effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

    5- Mass Mutation: Warp Charge 1, Blessing, range 12", cast at the end of your Movement phase. Roll on the Boons of Chaos table, as if for a Gift of Mutation. Apply that Boon to the target unit. The Boon lasts until the beginning of your next turn, then roll a D6. A unit may benefit from multiple castings of Mass Mutation.
    D6/Effect:

    1- Overload: D3 Perils of the Warp attacks against the target unit. Place a Spawn unit within 2"; it will act as though it was formed from a Spawnhood Boon of Chaos roll. Effect lost.

    2-5- Fade: Effect lost.

    6- Blessed: Boon remains in effect until the beginning of your next turn, then roll on this table again.

    6- Dance on the Threads of Fate: Blessing, range self or own unit. Warp Charge 1, cast at the beginning of your turn. The target unit gains Jink, Fleet, and Shred. However, should the unit lose models to Dangerous Terrain while this power is active, it will suffer D3 Perils of the Warp attacks. Lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

    Primaris: Bolt of Change: Beam. Strength: 8 AP: D3 Range: 24" Type: Assault 1. If this power hits a vehicle or causes a casualty, the vehicle or place of death (place a marker) counts as having a Dirge Caster in your favor.

    Artefacts of Tzeentch

    Blasted Standard: Chosen with the Mark or Daemon of Tzeentch only. All enemy psykers take Perils of the Warp attacks on any doubles roll to cast a power. Any psychic powers cast by this Chosen unit or an Independent Character attached to it increase their range by 12".

    Twisted Form: Daemon/Mark of Tzeentch only. One time per game, when the character rolls on the Boons of Chaos table, he may add +D3 rolls in the same manner. This may be before the game begins with Gift of Mutation.

    Labyrinthine Mind: Daemon/Mark of Tzeentch only. Before Infiltrators are deployed and Scouts make their moves, but after all other units have deployed, you may choose two units and swap their location. This may bring a unit out of Reserve or put it in. Furthermore, you may reroll the dice to Seize the Initiative.

    Scrolls of Magnus: Daemon/Mark of Tzeentch only. This Champion may elect not to generate a point of Warp Charge's worth of psychic powers at the beginning of the game. Instead, at the beginning of every game turn, you may have this Champion take a Mastery test over the Scrolls of Magnus. If successful, he may generate a psychic table from any table available to him or one from your enemy's Codex, if applicable.

    Rubric Talisman: Daemon/Mark of Tzeentch only. Rubric only. The Champion is capable of using his psychic might to instill some degree of vigor into his Rubric servants, often to the extreme jealousy of his subordinate sorcerers. Upon a successful Psychic test at the end of your Movement phase, affecting all non-psykers in a Rubric unit the Champion is joined to, you may change all bolt pistols to Pistol 2, all bolters, combi-bolters, and combi-weapons fired as bolters to Salvo 2/3 weapons, and all heavy bolters to Salvo 3/5. If he is a Daemon Prince, these effects extend to himself and a single unit within 6".

    Nature of the Beast

    Bedlam: Mark or Daemon of Tzeentch only. Only 10 points for Force Weapons. Acts as a Force Weapon, but replace the third paragraph as follows: If the test is passed, all models upon whom unsaved Wounds were inflicted must pass a Toughness test for each Wound. Models who fail the test become Chaos Spawn under your control as if generated by the Chaos Boons table; all Spawn formed in a single player turn form their own unit. Deny the Witch rolls cannot be taken against Bedlam weapons.

    Book of Nurgle

    Ancient Hatreds: Units with the Mark/Daemon of Nurgle treat units with the Mark/Daemon of Khorne/Slaanesh as Allies of Convenience and units with the Mark/Daemon of Tzeentch as Desperate Allies. A vehicle with a Plague Censer counts as having the Mark of Nurgle for the purposes of Ancient Hatreds.

    Mark of Nurgle: Units with the Mark of Nurgle have +1 Toughness; vehicles gain +1 Hull Point. Warlords gain +2 to retain choices on the Mortal table and +2 to retain Lord of the Flies on the Divine table.

    Daemon of Nurgle: Daemons of Nurgle have Shrouded, Slow and Purposeful, and Hated (Daemons of Tzeentch). Warlords gain +2 to retain choices on the Mortal table and +2 to retain Lord of the Flies on the Divine table, but this is not cumulative with the Mark of Nurgle bonus. A unit may only become a Daemon of Nurgle if it does not have the Mark of Khorne, Tzeentch, or Slaanesh.

    Plague Marines: Some units may further be upgraded to Plague Marines. The unit gains Fearless, Feel No Pain (or It Will Not Die for Helbrutes), Blight Grenades, Plague Knives in place of close combat weapons, but suffer -1 Initiative. Plague Marines units will be an Elites choice unless your Warlord has the Mark/Daemon of Nurgle. A model may only become a Plague Marine if it has the Mark of Nurgle.

    Dread Title of Nurgle

    The Desolator: Mark or Daemon of Nurgle only. The Desolator has wrought despair and agony across countless worlds, bringing the greatest achievements of his foes to dust. His host is of such dread to his foes that the sight of him weakens their very will to fight. All enemies within 12" suffer from -1 to their Leadership, Weapons Skill, and Ballistic Skill.

    Wargear of Nurgle

    Plague Censers: Vehicle upgrade. Vehicles with this upgrade and any units disembarking from it count as having Blight Grenades; combi-weapon bolters (but not the attached plasma gun or meltagun), combi-bolters, heavy bolters, twin linked heavy bolters, autocannons, Reaper autocannons, flamers, heavy flamers, twin-linked heavy flamers, and Inferno Cannons have Poison (4+).

    Icon of Despair: Enemy units are at -1 Leadership within 12" of this Icon. May not be taken by units with the Mark of Tzeentch, Slaanesh, or Khorne.

    Plague Knives

    Blight Grenades

    Plague Toad: Mark or Daemon of Nurgle only. Models with this Steed may Leap. A Leap movement adds +3" to a Move, Run, or Charge as if the model were Skyborne in the manner of a jump pack. Leap movements must be used when making Fall Back moves. Champions of Chaos gain +1 Wound. May not take the Chariot upgrade. Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Warpsmiths, Dark Apostles, and Exalted Champions only. May not be taken by models in Terminator Armor.

    Palanquin of Nurgle: Instead of taking the Chariot upgrade, a Champion with the Plague Toad may exchange it for a Palanquin of Nurgle. Steed that provides +2 Wounds and Very Bulky, but the unit is Infantry. When Plague Toads in the same unit make Leap moves, the Palanquin will keep up- though the Nurglings struggle to carry the throne and may totter, they dare not drop the favored of Nurgle! This move is treated merely as additional movement as Infantry, however.

    Discipline of Nurgle

    1- Weapon Virus

    2-Gift of Contagion

    3- Plague Wind


    4- Decay of All Things: Witchfire. Target a point within 24" and roll for scatter. Place a marker where the point scatters. Any unit within 3" of the marker at any time until the beginning of your next turn suffers 4+D3 Poisoned (4+) hits and moves as if it is in difficult terrain. Any unit that suffers Wounds (saved or unsaved!) from this power's effects reduces its armor save by 1.

    5- Explosive Pox: Witchfire. Range 18" S - AP - Heavy 6+D3 Poisoned (4+). For every casualty removed, the target unit suffers another hit from this power.

    6- Plaguefather's Benediction: Blessing of a friendly unit within 18". The unit gains Slow and Purposeful, but its ranged attacks are Poisoned (4+) and it gains Feel No Pain or, if it has Feel No Pain already, it gains Feel No Pain (4+).

    Primaris- Nurgle's Rot

    Artefacts of Nurgle

    Dirge of Entropy: Chosen with the Mark of Nurgle only. All enemy units within 18" take 2+D3 hits per turn; for non-vehicle units, these hits are Poisoned; for vehicles, these hits are at a Strength equal to the closest facing to the Icon minus 4, resolved against that facing.

    Pendant of Decay: Mark or Daemon of Nurgle only. Enemies who spend part of any turn within 12" of the Champion gain a marker; all markers are removed when the unit begins a turn out of range. Consult the table below for the markers' effects; these are cumulative.

    1: The unit suffers -1 to its Armor Saves.

    2: The unit has -1 Strength and Toughness.

    3+: The unit suffers D3 Wounds per full five models in the unit with no Armor or Cover saves allowed.

    Mask of the False: Mark or Daemon of Nurgle only. If a unit makes any save against hits by this Champion, in the phase immediately following it suffers 3+D3 Poisoned (4+) hits.

    Nurgling Infestation: Plague Marine only. The Champion has an additional 2+D3 Poisoned Attacks made at Weapon Skill 3, Strength 3, and at no AP; these do not benefit from Smash. If the Champion also has a Combat Familiar, instead of providing two additional Attacks as described, you may choose to add two Attacks to the 2+D3 gained through this Artefact.

    Black Ooze: Mark or Daemon of Nurgle only. The Champion has It Will Not Die. Furthermore, if he has Ichor Blood, any hits caused by Ichor Blood have Poisoned (3+).

    Nature of the Beast

    Pandemic: Mark or Daemon of Nurgle only. Weapon is Poisoned (2+). Enemy units within 6" of this weapon count all weapons as Two-Handed and are subject to the first line of the Slow and Purposeful rule; you may make the test as soon as they are within range.
    Last edited by Imperialis_Dominatus; 14-02-2013 at 18:20.
    Rules - CSM - BA - LatD (when I find my notes)
    Stories - Perish the Weak - Brothers in Chaos - The Baron Rises

  19. #19
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
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    Chatsworth, California
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    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    Good thing we don't have to worry about selling models?

    Warlord Traits
    - Black Crusader: The Warlord and all friendly units within 12" have Crusader and Zealot.
    - Flames of Spite: In addition to its normal attacks, a Warlord causes one additional hit in an assault against all enemy models in base contact. This hit is Str 4, AP 5, Int 1.
    - Master of Deception: After normal deployment, you may redeploy a single friendly unit to anywhere in your normal deployment zone.
    - Hatred Incarnate: The Warlord and all friendly units within 12" have Hatred and Rage.
    - Lord of Terror: The Warlord causes Fear. All enemy Leadership tests taken within 12" of the Warlord are taken with a -2 Ld penalty..
    - Exalted Champion: The Warlord may roll twice on the Chaos Boon table and choose which roll to apply.

    Demon Prince
    - Demon of Khorne: Counter Attack, Hatred, Rage
    - Demon of Tzeentch: Add 1 to inv save and mastery level.
    - Demon of Nurgle: Feel No Pain, Poisoned (4+), Shrouded
    - Demon of Slaanesh: Fleet, Blind, add 3 to Initiative

    Demon Weapons
    - Sword of Legend's Bane: Power Sword with Fleshbane, Instant Death
    - Axe of Unrelenting Fury: Power Axe with Hatred, Rampage
    - Godhammer Mace: Power Maul with AP 2, Armorbane
    - Titanslayer Spear: Power Lance that ignores invulnerable saves
    - Baleflamer
    - Ectoplasma Cannon
    The Arena of Death, where I write the duel you imagine.

    The Coming Apocalyse, my blog for 40k and FB rules development.

  20. #20
    Chapter Master squeekenator's Avatar
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    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    1,155

    Re: Let's Do Chaos Space Marines

    I like pretty much everything that's been added to the OP; the one big exception is this:

    Icon of Fate: A unit carrying this Icon, in addition to normal Icon bonuses, allows its controlling player to declare at the beginning of a player turn that it will reroll any one of the following:
    -Any run, charge, and difficult terrain rolls
    -Any armor, invulnerable, and cover saves
    -Any to hit rolls
    -Any to wound or armor penetration rolls
    That's crazy good. Considering your system of icon < mark < cult, Tzeentch's icon should be cheaper and weaker than a 5++ save. If I'm reading this right, it's Doom on your all enemies during your turn, or Guide for anything that wants to shoot fliers, and then army-wide Fortune on your opponent's turn, which is particularly good considering Tzeentch-aligned marines have both power armour and decent invulnerable saves. If my interpretation is correct, 10 ordinary Chaos Marines with the Icon fighting 10 Marines without it within rapid fire range would, if the Tzeentch marines go first, end with the plain squad dead and only 1 casualty for the Tzeentch marines. If the ordinary marines go first they'll kill 2 Tzeentch marines on average, although only by the slimmest of margins, so it's also very likely that they would still only kill 1.

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