are there any black templar successor chapters

[kieranhoare]

hi,

So i really like the black templar fluff wise, and model wise, so i brought 2k points of space marines for christmas, however, i've been thinking, i dont like the colour scheme to much, its ok, but as crusading knights, i'd rather have necron coloured power armour instead of the black, so i was wondering do black templars have any successor chapters, I want to have a good reason why my 'black templar army' isnt black. Also, a while back i ended up with a box of tactical maarines and painted the boltgun metal, it be annoying to repaint my first attempt at space marines, they look pretty good compared to my other models

[Ultraloth]

hi,

So i really like the black templar fluff wise, and model wise, so i brought 2k points of space marines for christmas, however, i've been thinking, i dont like the colour scheme to much, its ok, but as crusading knights, i'd rather have necron coloured power armour instead of the black, so i was wondering do black templars have any successor chapters, I want to have a good reason why my 'black templar army' isnt black. Also, a while back i ended up with a box of tactical maarines and painted the boltgun metal, it be annoying to repaint my first attempt at space marines, they look pretty good compared to my other models

The black templars ARE a successor chapter (namely of the Imperial Fist chapter) and as such they don't have any successors themselves. Even if the black templars would donate geneseed for the creation of a new chapter, their geneseed comes from Rogal Dorn (primarch of the original Imperial Fist legion) and as such the new chapter would be an Imperial Fist successor instead of a Black Templar successor.

However: there are plenty of space marine chapters with crusader immagery and some of them even have metalic armour. It isn't a stretch to pick one of those and use the Black Templar rules for them. (Crusading is part of the general Space Marine background anyway.) You'll find examples of those chapters in how to paint Space Marines and in the vanilla codex.

[kieranhoare]

thankyou for the reply, i understand about the geneseed originally being Dorn's, thankyou for explaining that if black templar did pass on geneseed it would count as imperial fist legion successor.
Your reply really opens alot of oppitunities about more theme, as i want to base them on the knights hospitallers, i know theres a colour scheme for them in how to paint space marines, but it didnt look to medieval with out the shiny armour.
I really appreciate your reply, so thankyou very much.

[DYoung]

Dont' the Knight Hospitallier have black and white heraldry that is identical to the Black Templar's?

[OllieC23]

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Templars
in the box on the right it lists a couple of direct descendents.

[kieranhoare]

Dont' the Knight Hospitallier have black and white heraldry that is identical to the Black Templar's?

resonably similar, due to gameswork shop giving ''knights templar'' ''knight hospitaller's'' emblem
this is the hospitallers,
http://catharta.deviantart.com/art/W...plar-340495775

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Templars
in the box on the right it lists a couple of direct descendents.

thanks, the website i found didnt have any successors

[A.T.]

Red Templars and White Templars.

The Red Templars have fleur-de-lis iconography and a similar colour scheme to the sisters of the order of the bloody rose - who the templars fought alongside during the long Vinculus crusade. It's possible that the chapter was formed to guard against any future conflicts of that nature as the assassin-cult they battled were actively creating warpgates (the first of which was inside an abandoned templar fortification).

They are known for elite jump assault squads wielding power swords and thunderhammers - probably best represented by blood angels (such as a death company allies detatchment)


The White Templars are a based on a planet, Sanctum, in Segmentum Solar. Their relation to the templars in unconfirmed. Having a homeworld and codex complaint chapter would be the only way the Templars could operate so close to the High Lords power base uncontested.

[Hengist]

The reason the Black Templar descendants were listed on 40kWikia and nowhere else, is that they're wholly speculative - 40kWikia is full of such crap, including drivel about Rogal Dorn still being alive.

There would, however, be no reason whatsoever not to dream up your own chapter name (the, uh, Gun-metal Templars?), and declare that they were founded from Imperial Fist geneseed with the Black Templars as the direct 'parent' chapter, who provided their initial cadre of officers. Alternatively, the Black Templars have been established to be a big chapter, spread all over the galaxy; I doubt anybody would quibble if your Templar crusade fleet had gun-metal armour rather than black. ('Black' was indeed in the medieval era the term commonly used for unpainted (i.e. metal-coloured) armour, so even the name would still make sense.)

[Mandragola]

The basic deal is that you can paint your models how you want, and use the codex you want to represent them. The only thing people sometimes complain about is where an army is painted as a distinct army that has its own codex, like blood angels, and used as something else like space wolves.

So basically go ahead and write your own background. It's up to you whether your army is a direct successor of the black templars or if they are some other guys who happen to use similar tactics. I have my own chapter and usually field them as space wolves but just because I like how they play really. I don't use things like mark of the wulfen or guys riding dogs, though I could probably convert something and come up with a justification if I really wanted.

[Commotionpotion]

The other 'historical' inspiration for the Black Templars is the Teutonic Knights and arguably it's most blatant one, given the 'Germanic' flavour of the Chapter. Simply using the colours of the Teutonic Knights would give you quite a striking looking force - metal armour, white tabards with red trim, black Maltese crosses.

As to the why - well, there are many different Black Templar crusades active across the Imperium, and the individual marshals have considerable freedom of action - plus, using different colour schemes would be a damn good way of hiding the Chapter's excessive numbers from prying Inquisitors or the Adeptus Terra's auditors...

[All Cing Eye]

As to the why - well, there are many different Black Templar crusades active across the Imperium, and the individual marshals have considerable freedom of action - plus, using different colour schemes would be a damn good way of hiding the Chapter's excessive numbers from prying Inquisitors or the Adeptus Terra's auditors...

I've always thought this was the best way to represent Black Templar successors.

Helbrecht "Guys quick paint your armor! You're now the Yellow Templars, the Inquisitions been asking to many questions"

and it would work because if their geneseed was ever tested it would just show them as an unrecorded Imperial Fists founding.

[TheDungen]

the black templars have no upper limit to how many crusades they can have active so they are much less prone to spawn successors than other chapters but that doesn't mean they haven't. And yes successor chapters can spawn successors, the second founding ones will have spawned more chapters than the first founding ones. (yes they didn't spawn any in the first founding which gives the first founding a head start but if every successor spawned a third founding chapter they will still have n-1 chapters spawned than the first found ones, multiplied with how many chapters each chapter on average really spawned in the third founding)

[Ultraloth]

the black templars have no upper limit to how many crusades they can have active so they are much less prone to spawn successors than other chapters but that doesn't mean they haven't. And yes successor chapters can spawn successors, the second founding ones will have spawned more chapters than the first founding ones. (yes they didn't spawn any in the first founding which gives the first founding a head start but if every successor spawned a third founding chapter they will still have n-1 chapters spawned than the first found ones, multiplied with how many chapters each chapter on average really spawned in the third founding)

Can you give a direct quote from a GW publication of a chapter recognizing a non-first founding chapter as their parent chapter?

[carlisimo]

Any such chapter would call itself a successor of the Imperial Fists, even if it organized itself in the same way as the Black Templars. So sure, you can use their rules for a chapter of your own. They'd still revere Rogal Dorn though.

[ForgottenLore]

Can you give a direct quote from a GW publication of a chapter recognizing a non-first founding chapter as their parent chapter?

The Badab War books list a couple later founding chapters as having successors. The Astral Claws have the Tiger Claws as successors, and the Executioners (and Imperial Fist successor themselves) have 3 of their own successors listed. Most of the rest of the chapters in the books list list "none known" under successors.

Any chapter can have successor chapters, not just the first founding. If a 26th founding chapter's geneseed was used to create a new chapter, a 26th founding chapter would have a successor, just because the geneseed of a chapter traces its genealogy back to a particular legion does not mean that the legion is considered the parent chapter.

[AlphariusOmegon20]

Pg. 64, IA10 Badab War part 2: The Mantis Warriors are listed as being a successor of the Marauders, which are a successor themselves of the White Scars. That proves that a successor chapter can spawn a successor chapter themselves.

Edit: Bah, ninja'd!!!

[Ultraloth]

The Badab War books list a couple later founding chapters as having successors. The Astral Claws have the Tiger Claws as successors, and the Executioners (and Imperial Fist successor themselves) have 3 of their own successors listed. Most of the rest of the chapters in the books list list "none known" under successors.

Any chapter can have successor chapters, not just the first founding. If a 26th founding chapter's geneseed was used to create a new chapter, a 26th founding chapter would have a successor, just because the geneseed of a chapter traces its genealogy back to a particular legion does not mean that the legion is considered the parent chapter.

Can anyone produce a non-FW quote?

[AlphariusOmegon20]

Can anyone produce a non-FW quote?

There's no need to. FW is canon.

[kryptt]

Can anyone produce a non-FW quote?

Why it's still from GW?

[TheDungen]

and the geneseed that created a third founding chapter from say the angels of absolution was no longer dark angels geneseed i was angels of absolution geneseed. the host can affect the geneseed in his glands, or they would not be so vary of genetic impurity.