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Thread: Tank qeustion dark angels

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    Tank qeustion dark angels

    How are 2 predator tanks in a dark angels army for 1850 points?

    Got a squad of 10 knights whit belial deepstriking and the scout snippers in an imperial building whit quad gun.
    rest not sure yet.

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    Chapter Master Starchild's Avatar
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    Tank qeustion dark angels

    How do you plan to equip your Predators?

    Anti-tank duty is fulfilled far more efficiently by Ravenwing Attack Squadrons with melta weapons. Lascannons are good at eliminating transports but if you're trying to pierce AV13 or AV14 the odds are not in your favour.

    The "dakka" Predator with autocannon and heavy bolters is good against hordes and light vehicles, but there again you have to look at the rest of your army to see if that role would be redundant.

    Either way I don't recommend mixing roles on the Predator. An autocannon turret with lascannon sponsons, or a lascannon turret with heavy bolter sponsons is not an effecient use of points.

    Another point to consider is how you plan for anti-air duty. Devastators with flak missiles claim a precious heavy support slot, which could restrict the number of Predators in your army. Your fortification with the quad-gun can help but just one anti-air weapon is rarely enough.


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    Chapter Master AlphariusOmegon20's Avatar
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post

    Either way I don't recommend mixing roles on the Predator. An autocannon turret with lascannon sponsons, or a lascannon turret with heavy bolter sponsons is not an effecient use of points.
    I disagree. Having a unit sit and do essentially nothing for a turn because you do not have the appropriate weapon in range would be an inefficient use of points. By mixing roles, you'll always have at least one appropriate weapon in range of a particular target.
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphariusOmegon20 View Post
    I disagree. Having a unit sit and do essentially nothing for a turn because you do not have the appropriate weapon in range would be an inefficient use of points. By mixing roles, you'll always have at least one appropriate weapon in range of a particular target.
    The range on the autocannon and the lascannon are the same if I remember correctly.

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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    I agree. AC/Las predators aren't bad- definitely cheaper and very efficient at light vehicle hunting.
    A twin-LC/HB predator, on the other hand, makes very little sense.
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    Chapter Master AlphariusOmegon20's Avatar
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I agree. AC/Las predators aren't bad- definitely cheaper and very efficient at light vehicle hunting.
    A twin-LC/HB predator, on the other hand, makes very little sense.
    Wait a minute...

    You're saying that 2 S7 Ap4 shots and 2 S9 Ap 2 shots, makes sense, but 1 re-rollable S9 Ap 2 shot and 6 S5 Ap4 shots, doesn't? Seems to me the Annihilator has more firepower than the Destructor does, Voss.
    "From the fires of betrayal, Unto the blood of revenge, We bring the word of Lorgar, The Bearer of the Word, The favored son of Chaos; All praise be given unto him, For those that would not heed, We offer praise to those that do, That they might turn their gaze our way, And gift us with the boon of pain, To turn the galaxy red with blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods." - Excerpt of the 341st book of the Epistles of Lorgar.

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    Librarian Schismotive's Avatar
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Most people have considered the AC/LC the best predator variant. It's definitely the most cost effective, but even then I'm not a big fan of it, and to be honest predators are usually not all that great, though still worth taking...
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Yeah, I'm not overwhelmed by them either. They aren't terrible, but they don't exactly jump out, either. And the HB sponsons just seem a waste of the slot, as you can get anti infantry firepower really easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphariusOmegon20 View Post
    Wait a minute...

    You're saying that 2 S7 Ap4 shots and 2 S9 Ap 2 shots, makes sense, but 1 re-rollable S9 Ap 2 shot and 6 S5 Ap4 shots, doesn't? Seems to me the Annihilator has more firepower than the Destructor does, Voss.
    It has more shots, sure. But what are you shooting at? The AC/Las has a functional role: light vehicles, definitely, not bad with MCs, bikes, and various specialized types of heavy or multi-wound infantry (very good for guard HW teams, for example).

    But what are you shooting at with twinlinked LC and HBs? And why wouldn't AC and HBs just be better? Or, for that matter, something else in the codex? HBs aren't all that stellar, or all that rare.
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    Chapter Master AlphariusOmegon20's Avatar
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Yeah, I'm not overwhelmed by them either. They aren't terrible, but they don't exactly jump out, either. And the HB sponsons just seem a waste of the slot, as you can get anti infantry firepower really easily.



    It has more shots, sure. But what are you shooting at? The AC/Las has a functional role: light vehicles, definitely, not bad with MCs, bikes, and various specialized types of heavy or multi-wound infantry (very good for guard HW teams, for example).

    But what are you shooting at with twinlinked LC and HBs? And why wouldn't AC and HBs just be better? Or, for that matter, something else in the codex? HBs aren't all that stellar, or all that rare.
    My point was that the Annihilator can do all that too, and it appears on it's face is better at some of it. Guard HW teams are only T3. S5 is still going to wound them on 2's. S9 can take on Land Raiders. So you get both Anti infantry AND Anti armor in the same package, just as you would the Destructor variant.

    Example; You have infantry in your firing arc, but no armor. Cut loose with the HB's.
    Example 2; You have an armor vehicle in your arc, but no infantry. open up with the re-rollable las.

    My point was versatility. You don't want it to sit there for a turn doing nothing because you have an armor vehicle in firing range arc because you chose to outfit it with only anti infantry options. if you're going to do that, you might as well put all las or AC/HB on it and specialize it even further.
    "From the fires of betrayal, Unto the blood of revenge, We bring the word of Lorgar, The Bearer of the Word, The favored son of Chaos; All praise be given unto him, For those that would not heed, We offer praise to those that do, That they might turn their gaze our way, And gift us with the boon of pain, To turn the galaxy red with blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods." - Excerpt of the 341st book of the Epistles of Lorgar.

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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphariusOmegon20 View Post
    My point was that the Annihilator can do all that too, and it appears on it's face is better at some of it. Guard HW teams are only T3. S5 is still going to wound them on 2's. S9 can take on Land Raiders. So you get both Anti infantry AND Anti armor in the same package, just as you would the Destructor variant.
    HW teams are 2W. ACs kill them outright, hbs only wound. A single s9 against a land raider? Bah. No reason to bother taking that shot.

    Example; You have infantry in your firing arc, but no armor. Cut loose with the HB's.
    Example 2; You have an armor vehicle in your arc, but no infantry. open up with the re-rollable las.

    My point was versatility. You don't want it to sit there for a turn doing nothing because you have an armor vehicle in firing range arc because you chose to outfit it with only anti infantry options. if you're going to do that, you might as well put all las or AC/HB on it and specialize it even further.
    Honestly, I wouldn't bother. With the range, the odds that you won't have any appropriate targets available is vanishingly small. I can see a point to all las, but (especially in the new DA codex) I can't see much point to the heavy bolters at all. If you want them, there are better ways of getting them in the codex. But if you are going to take the HBs, coupling them with the AC for the lower cost makes much more sense. The AC/LC makes sense because both weapons have functionality against the preferred targets. LC/HB is always going to be 'wasting' points because the preferred targets diverge completely.

    It is the same problem the standard land raider has, but at least that has POTMS to compensate for a terrible weapons array.
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  11. #11
    Chapter Master AlphariusOmegon20's Avatar
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    HW teams are 2W. ACs kill them outright, hbs only wound.
    True, but 3 HB shots hitting on 3's will garner 2 hits, wounding on 2's. And that's only ounting ONE HB.That team's still going to be dead at the end of the day.


    A single s9 against a land raider? Bah. No reason to bother taking that shot.
    Hitting on a 3 re-rollable, glancing on a 5, pen on a 6. It's worth it, just to keep that LR from shooting next turn.


    Honestly, I wouldn't bother. With the range, the odds that you won't have any appropriate targets available is vanishingly small.
    Not that small. I've run into situations on a fairly regular basis where I didn't have the right target in range for my chosen weapons loadout, hence why I started doing it this way.

    LC/HB is always going to be 'wasting' points because the preferred targets diverge completely.
    And that was the point. It can handle both.
    "From the fires of betrayal, Unto the blood of revenge, We bring the word of Lorgar, The Bearer of the Word, The favored son of Chaos; All praise be given unto him, For those that would not heed, We offer praise to those that do, That they might turn their gaze our way, And gift us with the boon of pain, To turn the galaxy red with blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods." - Excerpt of the 341st book of the Epistles of Lorgar.

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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphariusOmegon20 View Post
    Hitting on a 3 re-rollable, glancing on a 5, pen on a 6. It's worth it, just to keep that LR from shooting next turn.
    Since glancing hits only strip hull points a 1 in 6 chance of a penetrating hit isn't worth diverting all the firepower of a Predator at the Raider.

    For myself (given the lower cost of Annihilators for Dark Angels) I'd go tri-las. They have one less shot than the autocannon varient, but it provides better quality shooting.

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    Librarian Schismotive's Avatar
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    Re: Tank qeustion dark angels

    Lascannons are best when used targeting light vehicles (AV10-12) Other than that it's likely to be a waste of shots; even an anihilator with lascannon sponsons won't get far firing at AV 13-14, because keep in mind that predator sponsons, being so low to the ground are likely to allow covers saves even assuming they have consistent line of sight. So naturally, the AC/LC variant does the best with this, and also performs well enough against meq and heavy infantry. The "dakka" pred was prevalent in 5th ed due to mech but now I feel it's less of a good choice, but is still viable.

    Personally, as a black templar I generally use the AC/LC, and also occasionally consider using the tri-las variant due to how cheap it is for us...
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