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Thread: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

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    Chapter Master inq.serge's Avatar
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    Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    [Editors note: Hi, I will keep an up to date summary in the first few posts, with both unit and army specific tactics, but they will not pop up in an instance, instead they will grow as more and more tactics are found by the posters. I will start Today with a tiny summary, like a template, and let it grow, to become a bit like the "Tactica:Imperium"-Imperial Guard Tactics Handbook / Serge.]

    [Also, feel free to question anything and everything I write, let the debate help us find the answers, and if you have a short article on a certain unit/item/spell/tactic/mathhammering, feel free to PM me and I'll include it]

    Shrine of Glory:
    Warriors of Chaos Tactica.
    8th Edition WFB/ 8th Edition Woc Armybook.

    Army Wide:

    Marks of Chaos.
    With exception of the Nurlic mark, the marks are pretty much the same.
    Well, Except that they're a points per model upgrade now.
    This will make all the khornate players happy, since the Mark of Khorne got cheaper in small units. While Mark of Slaanesh is kind of the same price, but only for the smallest units.

    Eye of The Gods
    aka EOTG

    The EOTG now gives permanent cumulative stat-increases, to Almost all characters and champs.
    And it gives 'em it even if you defeat a champion in a challenge.
    The last part might seem good, but when you have a model that causes 3 or more st5 attacks, you don't want to waste it on a cheap T3 W1 champ when the unit is steadfast. Sure, A stat increase and overkill is good, but it doesn't nullify steadfast, and breaking the unit is more important. However, If steadfast isn't an issue, overkill and a stat increase is Awesome. Remember to check if your opponent has any champs at the start of the game, and act accordingly.

    With the EOTG, you can get you champs turned into spawns, which is fun, or DPs, which is funnier, unless it's your lords/heroes who do that. Yes, you get a DP, but, your opponent gets the VP from the character. (The newly created critter gives nothing for being killed however). All through Champions give also VP, they are to insignificant to count since the whole unit must be destroyed before any VP is awarded.

    Chaos Magic

    This edition, (at least for the slaaneshi and the nurglic lore), it's all about combos: Spell combos, Augments, Hexes. And some of them are pretty nasty.

    However, a general warning; Do not expect to cast all your spells, You won't have enough PD, and even if you do, your opponent will dispel most of your tactical spells.

    Lore Of Slaanesh

    This is our better lore, one full of finesse and malice, unfortunately, it requires skill, not only from the player, but also from our sorcerers. But our non-tzeentchian spellcasters have always been on par with those of other armies, which really annoying, since everything we have is above average (well, except non-artillery shooting).

    Lore attribute: Bliss in Torment
    It might look like an awesome offensive power that will turn your sorcerer into a mighty duellist, but it isn't. First; You'll rarely cause enough wounds to get an awesome benefit, secondly, even if you do, it lasts only 'til your next magic phase. And since there's only one spell that can cause damage in combat, you're stuck with a defensive skill, and not a good one. However, A DP might get some benefit from it if you go for the Choir-bomb.

    Signature: Lash of Slaanesh
    It's OK-ish, but I doubt you'd want to trade any spell for it.

    1 Acquiescence
    Godsend. It's simply godsend. Sure, it might seem like crap; ASL? We're mostly I5, we don't care about ASL! and: Random Movement? Big [profanity] Deal! But lo! It's actually awesome in disguise: 1: It has a low casting value. 2: It has a good range, and boosted, it hits from across the table. 3: Your opponent can't defend himself other than dispelling it. 4: ASL will benefit our juggers greatly, since they are I1 and there ARE I2 units (I.E:mournfangs) that might kill a couple juggs. And the best: 5: Who suffers from Random Movement the most? Move-or-fire Warmachines! That's Who suffers! Remember; Random Movement is compulsory movement.
    And a sorceress with a steed of slaanesh has M10 + Vanguard; There is no such thing as out of range.

    Also: This spell is priceless for an all-cav army, since it can pull units out of buildings. Remember that! You will need to know that.

    However, It's a High priority to dispel for anyone with important Warmachines.


    2 Pavane of Slaanesh
    Probably the weakest slaaneshi spell, but even it has it's use. And only one use that is: Killing Champions. You do not want to waste the combat potential of your champs on other champs, or have their champs hinder you from challenges! A hysterical Juggerchamp can at most cause 10 wounds against infantry. I bet you'd rather remove a rank or 2 of infantry than a single champ; Sure, overkill's good, but it doesn't nullify steadfast.

    3 Hysterical Frenzy
    Oh, Slaanesh! Throw it on a big unit of Juggerknights. Or Khornate warriors. It's that simple. A horde of 30 Khornate warriors with XHW will get 70 St4 WS5 I5 attacks. We need it. Grinding hordes have long been our weakness, this spell gives us the boost we needed. A unit of 6 juggerknigth lancers will get 33-48 st6 attacks (+stomps) (depending on formation and base-contact) with this spell. Do I need to explain how awesome that is?! Another fun thing is if your opponent has a single character and no champs in a unit, and you want him dead; Cast it on him and he can't refuse a challenge. NOTE: ItP no longer stops characters from declining challenges, however, it stops units from fleeing. Also, it allows you to frenzy-bait your opponents.

    4 Slicing Shards
    Stand alone? Slightly better than meh. D6 hits, 2d6 if your lucky. Good but not all that. If you cast phantasmagoria on same unit, then it's better. Add in treason of tzeentch, for more power. And Doom and Darkness if you want it to shine. The more spells you invest in the attack, the better it gets, but can you afford it, or rather, is it worth it? NO, No it isn't. However, Phantasmagoria + Slicing shards could easily destroy an unit of zombies or skeletons outside of their General-bubble with ease. (same goes for other low LD unit)

    5 Phantasmagoria
    Great in combo with slicing shards, other than that, and annoying units with stupidity, it's quite situational, only useful when you really need your opponent to fail that LD test, which isn't that usual. (With the other spells, there usually won't be anything left in combat to roll a break test without a -30 Ld modifier)

    6 Cacophonic Choir
    Same as acquiescence, except that it causes damage. And it's a hex, so you can still damage units in CC. But it's not that deadly, sure, with some luck it CAN destroy a unit of Mournfangs or Juggerknights or a steamtank, But most likely it WON'T. The boosted version is quite awesome, and with a sorceress (lady) on steed, you could, on turn one, move to the middle of your opponents deployment zone, and cast it on all units within 12", hurting them and giving them random movement, a so called Choir-bomb. Problem is, the boosted version has a sky high casting value, so it's one hell of a gamble to do that. A DP will love this spell, especially if he's in combat and manages to get the boosted one through, as it will work great with his lore Attribute.

    Lore of Nurgle
    The other of our better lores, this one is however more "straight forward".

    Lore attribute: Bloated with disease
    This one is marvellous with DPs. However, this one only adds to the casters stats, not the mounts, so a caster on a palanquin will only start benefit from the second T increase and third W increase.

    Signature: Stream of Corruption
    A Template at random distance. It depends on luck more than on positioning. Sure, a Flying DP can place one well, but it could easily overshoot. Still fun against hordes.

    1 Miasma of Pestilence
    Meh, unless you boost it, and you should boost it, since boosted, it's great. Kinda waste on juggerknights and such whom already hit on 3+ and wound on 2+, but on other units, it's awesome.

    2 Blades of Putrefaction
    Very fun with units who have lots of attacks and or poison. I.E: Lord with slime and +3attack sword. Might work well with ASF Hellstriders, whose mounts already have poison, or one of those hysterical xhw Khornate units. Kinda waste on Skullcruchers since their hits will most likely wound on 2+ anyway.

    3 Curse of the Leper
    This one's great. +d3T for you, or -d3T for your opponent. Quite straight forward on what it does. (T7 Skullcrushers Anyone?)

    4 Rancid Visitations
    A lot like Slicing Shards, but stronger, and against T. With Curse of The Leper, It's not improbable to get 5d6 hits, without, it's like 1½d6 hits. Good but not overkill.

    5 Fleshy Abundance
    Great for all your units, especially your trolls. A regen.save is quite straight forward in what it does.

    6 Plague Wind

    Lore of Tzeentch

    And I always tough Tzeentch would be the best one .
    The Tzeentchian lore makes you a magic-missile battery, but not a powerhouse.

    Lore Attribute: Boon of magic
    You get up to one dice back from every spell you cast, or 2+ for every you miscast. More of a consolation prize than a boon.

    Signature: Blue fire
    Straight forward damage spell, but with warpflame.

    1 Treason
    Fun if you want to annoy units with stupidity or undeath, otherwise, not the best LD-debuff spell out there.

    2 Pink fire
    Also a straight forward damage spell, also with warpflame.

    3 Bolt of Change
    Yet an other straight forward damage spell, Again with warpflame.

    4 Glean magic
    Probably the pearl of the lore. You might get some awesome spells (I:E: Time Warp or the lore of life healing spell), but the best part is, you could get a damaging spell without Warpflame.

    5 Firestorm
    Do you like Straight forward damage spells, well this lore would be for you if it weren't for the warflame.

    6 Infernal gateway
    Hopefully, people are still afraid of it. Scaring people is half its use. The other use is a straight forward damage spell, but with warpflame, unless you roll good and destroy the entire unit, in which case you won't need to bother about warpflame.

    Note on Warpflame
    Warpflame is not flaming. Thus it's a gamble, it either cause a few wounds, or it gives regen, and the gain of having a regen is well worth the risk of suffering a couple of wounds. Warpflame is bad, and/but it makes you forced to destroy the targeted unit in a single go to not risk giving them a regen.

    Lore of Fire
    Available on unmarked spellcasters.
    Pretty much direct damage.

    Lore Attribute: Kindleflame
    Good if you're trying to kill of a single unit with multiple spells, otherwise it's kinda wasted.

    Signature spell: Fireball
    The signature magic missile

    1:Fire-cloak
    Doesn't seem like much, but with its low casting value, it can be quite a good mage-hunter deterrent, maybe even giving a boost to horde-grinding.

    2: Flaming Sword of Rhuin
    Awesome on hellstriders, more so on that khornate horde with 70 attacks.

    3: Burning Head
    Weakish (st4) direct damage spell with possibility for panic. Good in combo with Ld-Debuff spells, but otherwise, not all that.

    4: Piercing Bolts
    Or, How to annoy ranked units. Ordinary damage spell, but boosted fireball will cause more damage for the same casting value against most units.

    5: Flame Cage
    Initially, the d6 st4 hits are not so damaging. It can make units not move, which is good, but it can make 1 st4 hit/model, which is fabulous against hordes, If they move. If. Cast Acquiescence on the same unit and they'll have to move. Good anti-horde combo that. (C'mon, you'd love to cause 50 hits on a horde).

    6: Flame Storm
    A template. As straight forward as it could be.

    Lore of Metal
    An alternative to Lore of tzeentch, and this lore has those flaming spells to mop up this little 6+ saves warpflame left here and there.

    Attribute: Metalshifting
    Well, not much of an attribute as a way to actually damaging you opponents.

    Signature: Searing Doom
    Magic missile, obviously good against armoured units

    1: Plague of Rust
    Lover your opponents armour, quite Ok, but cast this AFTER casting damaging lore of metal spells.

    2: Enchanted Blades
    Obviously great for everything with lots of attacks, I.E: Khornate 70 attack horde or big units of juggerknights. No, seriously, great spell.

    3: Glittering Robe
    Great for warriors without shields, for hellstriders and, well, everything but knights and juggerknights.

    4: Golden Hounds

    Sniper spell, not the greatest, but can do.

    5: Transmutation of Lead

    We're great in cc anyway, so thisone's best against things that shoot a lot, like leadbelchers or huge units of handgunners.

    6: Final transmutation
    Not so killy for a killy spell. Can do, but you could find better spells.

    Lore of Death
    Up to compete against lore of nurgle.
    Greater in combo with other spellcasters, and fantastic for, not only character sniping, but also monsterhunting.

    Attribute: Life Leaching
    This is a good one if you have multiple wizards. With some spells in this lore, your spellcasting can basically be free.

    Signature Spell: Spirit leach
    Good sniping spell, great against monsters. Shame we have such a low Ld.

    1: Aspect of the Dreadknight

    As if we do not have fear in abundance already

    2: Caress
    Magehunting anyone?

    3: Soulblight
    Great in combo with Caress, Curse of the Leper and Rancid Visitations. Good spell all in all.

    4: Doom and Darkness
    The legendary, original, Ld-debuff number 1. There are lots of things to do with it; Terror, panic, Hellcannons, slicing shards, anything, everything!

    5: Bjuna
    When combined with Curse of the Leper or Soulblight, it's probably one of the greatest monster-slaying spell out there. You got a Bloodthirster? Not any more. Standalone, quite Ok. At least against characters. especially elf characters.

    6: Purple Sun
    Bet you've already heard about it.

    Lore of Shadows
    A mighty lore, only drawback is that it has to compete with lore of slaanesh.
    The question is; Do you like weakening your opponents stats, or do you like messing with your opponents movement/battleline?

    Attribute: Smoke and Mirrors

    Quite Ok, especially if you like chariots. Or have a good bait and switch tactic.

    Signature Spell: Mystifying Miasma.
    The must have spell for a destructive Lore of shadow caster.

    1: Steed of Shadows
    Fantastic if you want to move your gorebeast or warshrine into the combat zone, and thus enabling a second turn charge from your gorebeast.

    2: Enfeebeling
    Good if you want to grind something, or charge a high st unit.

    3: Withering
    Alot like Curse of the leper, look it up.

    4: Penumbral Pendulum
    Good spell, if you cast Mystifying Miasma first.

    5: Pit of Shades
    The old classic; Cast Mystifying Miasma and let your opponents disappear. Great against MI.

    6: Mindrazor
    70 st 8 attacks? Yes please. It's a great buff, especially for xhw-units. High casting value, but still.
    Last edited by inq.serge; 22-08-2013 at 16:30.
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  2. #2
    Chapter Master inq.serge's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Reserved post

    Units:

    Core:
    We are spoiled with Core Choices, We've got: Chaff Warbeasts, Light Infantry, Heavy Infantry, "Fast" Infantry, Monstrous Infantry (with Throgg), Light Cavalry and Chariots.

    Chaos Warriors

    -Summary
    Our backbone, our most basic unit. They can do anvil, they can do grinder, they can do hammer. What more can you ask from them?

    GW is usually only good for MoN, otherwise Halberds are the to go choice.

    -Builds

    Usually, unit sizes above 18 are quite unnecessary in games under 3k.

    * The Meat-grinder: Full com, MoK, XHW, 30x. Horde formation. Expensive unit, but causes 60 (70 when hysteric) st4 attacks.

    -Tactics

    Warhounds

    -Summary
    They are pretty much unchanged. Well, except that they now count toward the Core Requirement, and have a new option; Vanguard. For a increase by one third of their price, they can get the vanguard move; It's a good place to spend some points if you must, and a must if you play an all Cavalry army, but otherwise, you might live without it.

    -Builds:
    * The Chaff: 5 Warhounds

    * The Chaff for All-Cav armies: 5 Warhounds, Vanguard


    *Poison Horde: 30 Warhounds, Poison. (maybe vanguard)
    The warhound horde. Not a stand alone unit, but it is the fastest horde you can get for a low pts cost, and the fun part is when you combine them with a Nurglic AND a Slaaneshi spellcaster.

    -Tactics

    *For the Poison horde build: If you cast hysterical frenzy And the Nurglic poison spell, you'll have a m7 horde, with 40 attacks, and poisons on to hit rolls of 5+, that's around 13,3 auto-wounds. Problem is that they'll lose around 1-2 models each turn, but up to 6 or as low as non if you're lucky/unlucky. (if you want to keep the frenzy that is). It's a very situational unit that relies on those spells, and the points are better spent elsewhere. But it could be used for fun.

    Marauders

    -Summary
    Got a lot more expensive this edition, and thus too expensive for all marauder armies to be competative. A unit with Festus seems to be popular however.

    -Builds
    -Tactics

    Marauder Horsemen

    -Summary
    Our horsemen. On average, cheaper than previous ed. They did however "loose" the LA.

    All trough the throwing axes seem tempting, Javs are superior. 5 attacks won't do much in itself, but it will harass, and if you want to harass, you need to be able to run away, and with javelins, you have a bigger chance to escape.

    MoS is quite standard for these, you don't need to be brave to flee, only to rally and not screw up the battle-plan. However, MoK with flails will bring the most st5 attacks per point (for cavalry).

    -Builds

    * Slaaneshi (Standard) Horsemen (The "Perfect" Fast Cav): Javelins, Flails, MoS, Mus. 5x.

    * Khornate (standard) Horsemen (Most bang for the buck): Flail, MoK, 6x.

    -Tactics

    * Harass things: Move in front of units, shoot them, run when they charge. Repeat 'til you have a unit that can charge the harassed unit available. Just don't get too close.

    * Do NOT leave your Khornate Horsemen within charge range of important enemy hard-hitters, especially when your horsemen are close to your army, since Khornate horsemen can't flee. In fact, not being able to flee is the biggest weakness of Khornate Standard horsemen.

    * Do not place your horsemen too close to other units weak units that risk to be charged, as they can't flee when overrun into.

    Chaos Chariot
    Aka Chariot

    -Summary
    Our chariot. Now core. Good with Khorne.


    -Builds

    * Khornate Chariot: Chariot, MoK

    -Tactics
    * It's not cavalry, don't expect it to be cavalry. It's more like an infantry unit with increased charge range.

    * It's a support unit; Flank charge stuff your blocks charge.

    * You can go all chariot. Sure, you'll suck at terrain/siege, but otherwise, one of the most powerful lists in the game.

    Forsaken

    -Summary

    Previous ed., the forsaken where known as our worst unit.
    Now they're core, and gotten chaos armour. And an other random table.

    Random tables aside, these guys are basicaly warriors, but more expensive. And slightly faster.

    It's easy to compare them to khornate xhw-warriors, who are better at everything but Movement, but, these guys aren't just warriors, they have something down their sleeve: Unit size 5+.
    You see, unlike warriors, these guys can come in units of 5 or 6. (if you where thinking of taking 10+, you might as well take warriors).

    In those small sizes, combined with m6 and swiftstride from MoS, they suddenly are heavy warhounds, expensive and slow, but still heavy and resilient warhounds.

    Sure, they won't impress with m6 swiftstride, but 6 of them cause 12-24 st4 attacks with random bonus. And they're T4 4+, so they can, unlike warhouds, horsemen and hellstriders, charge shooty things and expect to acctually have enough models left to fight.

    They are expensive however; 6 of them with MoS cost as much as 4 UNITS of warhounds. Question is, which would you prefer to send at a shooty unit.

    -Builds

    *Runners: 5-6 forsaken, MoS

    -Tactics

    * Keep them on the sides, and use them for combined charges with chariots or warriors. A flank-charge can break ranks on hordes.

    * Charge small shooty units (skinks, shades), Expensive chaff is still chaff, and a couple of these guys might survive and defeat the unit.

    Special:

    Chosen
    -Summary
    -Builds
    -Tactics

    Chaos Knights
    aka: Knights

    -Summary
    The Knights where considered our greatest unit back in 6th and 7th, but now? Cavalry has been weakened by the increase of hordes and all the bonuses to everything but cavalry. All through, compared to other armies, powerful and tough, they suffer from being the Jacks of all trades of the Chaos army. They can do most stuff, but there's always a unit better at it.

    You want a unit that can support and grind and take a serious beating? You got the Gorebeast.

    You want a small frontage unit that moves fast and strikes hard? You got the Chimera

    You want lots of fast st5 attacks from cavalry? Spam Khornate Standard Marauder Horsemen, They're a cheaper source of st5 cavalry, and they're core.

    You want brutal knights who are overall awesome? You got Skullcrushers for that. All trough Skullcrushers are Rare and aren't as good against units in buildings.

    I'm not saying that they are bad, they are good; they hard and can cause some damage, but there are better specialists. (And skullcrushers)
    They can be used if you want lots of knights, but have as many Juggerknights as allowed, or in small games.

    Ensorcelled weapons are still a no-brainer, and with EW+ MoK they are basicaly unchanged in price.

    -Builds:

    *Khornate knights 5x: Knights (5x), Ensorcelled weapons, MoK.
    The good old reliable. Now even cheaper.

    *Khornate knights 6x: Knights (6x), Ensorcelled weapons, MoK.
    Same as usual, both in price and power.

    -Tactics:

    * While your enemy's distracted by your juggerknights, these guys can sneak around and cause damage on other places.

    Hellstriders

    -Summary: They are pretty much unchanged.
    With marauder horsemen getting cheaper on average, but loosing their armour, it might seem that Hellstriders are just a unit you have to fit your slaaneshi theme. Well, Not completely true.
    Hellstriders come in 2 types, Spears (meh) and Scourges (Yay!)

    The spear-wielding ones are almost fancy marauder horsemen, who simply move faster and have the potential to get +2 on charge if they wipe out a unit. If.

    And then we have the Scourge-wielding ones. Sure, you lose the +1 st on charge, but, you gain ASF. They will mostly hit on re-rollable 3+, and they will hit first.

    But the most important thing is to put a character in this unit. The most cost-effective per wound caused is an Ex-champ, MoS; Steed of Slaanesh, Helm of many eyes and Flail. In a unit of 9+ with champ (You don't want to waste 4 st7 ASF attacks on a 1W champ), you suddenly have a great unit. It can move 32" straight ahead in your first movement phase, making it possible to put them behind enemy lines. With their speed and a little help from the champ, you can pick your fights (the ones you can win, obviously), win them, and let the rewards rain.

    [Unfortunately there's 3 rewards only, I've killed 4 units once with these guys, while running a full lap around the battlefield. I'm trying to not be biased, but these guys are my personal favourites]

    -Builds:

    * Slaaneshi Entourage: 9+ Hellstriders, Scourges, champ. Add a CC-character for Maximal effect at all.

    -Tactics:

    * A CC-Character is MANDATORY for this unit!

    * Unless you have a special plan for them, Deploy them somewhere in the middle of your front-line. That's where fast units work best, as they can easily move to any point on the battlefield from there.

    * Since you can move 32" on your first movement phase with this guys, you can easily move behind your enemies front lines, and since you're behind them, they'll have to either ignore you, giving you the opportunity for a rear charge, or wheel towards you, which will make them unable to charge you, and opens up for a rear charges from knights/juggerknights.

    * The ironblaster and similar fancy artillery are ideal targets. You can move up close to them fast, and the charge them in your next turn. At most, they [the artillery] will only get one shot before CC, usually at the hellstriders (charmed shield is awesome), if they do so, a pair will die at most (a cheap sacrifice, totally worth it), and if they ignore you, your hellstriders will be at full strength. When in combat, your hero will be able to dent it, whatever it is, and even if you don't insta-break it, the opponent will either have to "abandon" the artillery piece, or send troops to save it, which will distract said troops from deadlier things (Chimeras, Juggerknights, Knights, DPs), increasing your chances for a rear charge or ganging up on what didn't go to save the Artillery.

    * Hellstriders are not fancy Marauder Horsemen. They have different uses.

    * Hellstriders have a bad time charging units that stand and shoot properly. Cast The Lepers Curse on them to increase their T if you absolutely need to charge a shooty unit.


    Chimera

    -Summary
    We've got a new pet, and it can fly.
    This monster is, especially when fully kitted, our most expensive single non-character model.
    It's also our most ferocious non-character model, with 6+d3 attacks and d6 stomps, all at st6. That's good. Something that isn't is that it's T5 4W, 4+ AS. Much for most armies, but not for WoC. They're fragile by our standards, and they will attract cannonballs, and a single cannonball has around 50% chance to knock it off the table. Seems like the 4+ regen is mandatory.
    Best thing, other than its high number of attacks, is that it flies.
    With flying, you can somewhat choose your fights, and chose them wisely, since all through they cause tonnes of pain, and can kill lots of models, they, just like any other monster, aren't that great against hordes and other huge units.

    You can give it flame breath, which is great at weakening hordes, especially as the chimera is a flyer, thus capable of positioning the template quite good (up to 25 hits against a huge horde). But only 'cause you flamed a unit doesn't mean that your chimera will be able to mop up the remnants of it.

    -Builds

    *Standard Chimera: Chimera with Regen.

    *Flamer Chimera: Chimera with Regen. and Flame Breath.

    -Tactics
    * Use the slaaneshi spell Acquiescence to distract cannons from shooting at your chimera.

    * Combine the Flamer Chimera with Phantasmagoria and you're likely to see whatever is left of the horde you struck run off the board.

    * Works great in tandem with a DP.

    Trolls
    -Summary
    -Builds
    -Tactics

    Ogres
    -Summary
    -Builds
    -Tactics

    Dragon Ogres
    Aka Drogers

    -Summary
    With Skullcrushers, Drogers might seem superfluous, but, Droger do have a niche.

    Take four, equip gw, put them in 2x2 formation, hunt monsters (and maybe stanks).

    All through, only t4, they are W4! They can take hits before going down in number of attacks, and 12 st7 attacks are quite brutal against high T low W (I.E: Monsters).

    -Builds

    * 4x Drogers, GW.

    -Tactics

    * 2x2 formation is quite good for them.

    * If you're afraid that something might kill some drogers before they strike, toss Acquiescence on it.



    Warshrine
    -Summary
    They Are now Special. They are also chariots without hitting power now. Also, It's slow. Like one of our slowest units.

    They are also resilient, all through not as resilient as they used to be. But you don't always win by taking punches without throwing any.

    Biggest change is their "Giver of Glory". It no longer gives one unit a "Remain in Play" EOTG roll, instead, it has a bound spell. The spell is easy to cast, and it will most likely be dispelled, giving your opponent a pyrrhic victory.

    The spell itself will give some champs/characters EOTG rolls. Good, but you could use the points spent on the warshrine to buy funnier toys for your champs/Characters.

    The warshrine is highly defensive, but distinctly lacking any offensive power.

    -Builds

    -Tactics

    * It's a warSHRINE, not a WARshrine.

    * If you really want it in your Cav-army and still benefit from it in the front, Use it as a character mount and cast Steed of Shadows to make it fly.

    * Deploy chosen near it, and they may roll 4d6 - 2 dice of your choice on their EOTG-roll.

    Gorebeast Chariot
    Aka Gorebeast

    -Summary
    Yet an other new plaything. This time, a chariot strapped to a Mutant

    The first thing that hits the eyes is that it's M6. Yes. M6 Chariot. It is slow, very slow.
    But, a chariot is not exactly cavalry, it's infantry support. It's better placed next to infantry blocks, and moved side by side until it's within charge range.

    The hitting power is great, especially with MoK. It has KB on impact hits, and it can fight quite ok. But that's not the most awesome thing.

    It's resilient as few. It can take lots and lots of hits (even better with MoN), without getting hurt, and thus grind down most units.

    -Build

    The only Option they have is the mark.

    -Tactics
    * If used as A Character mount, it can be moved early with the Steed of Shadows spell to make it closer to important targets and negate it's slow speed.

    * Combine charge with infantry; It's a support unit, not a stand alone CC-Monster. (all through it can keep some units tarpited alone)

    Rare:

    Hellcannon

    -Summary
    The hellcannon has long been one of our best units, standing tall in the competition or rare choice Pts. It has increased slightly in cost, and got its movement halved down to 3, and now lets wizards defend themselves from the infamous "miscast"-misfire result, but, it has also gotten a 5+ save and magic attacks.
    The hellcannon is still going strong and it will be wise to use at least one, if not two.

    -Builds
    They have no upgrades, so it's basically one hellcanon x how many you want in your army.

    -Tactics

    * Do NOT forget that they cause panic!

    * Don't worry about small "Warmachine hunter"-units; All through The hellcannon shoots like a stonethrower on steroids, it is a monster, and thus fights like one. In fact, It's one of our more resilient and steadfast monsters, with T6, 5W and Unbreakable.

    *All through overall great, they have a weak spot: Killing Monstrous infantry/cavalry/beasts. The centre strike can one shot most monsters, the blast can damage huge units, covering up to 22 models in a 5x5 man unit, but against ogres and such, they will rarely kill more than one model, if any at all that is.

    * The Hellcannon is great, but it's not insta-win. It scatters, and if you're unlucky, it might kill nothing at all during a whole game.

    Skullchruschers
    aka Juggerknights

    -Summary
    Our new knights. They hit hard. They are hard. They win hard.
    What not to say, they can have 6 (8) st6 attacks on the charge, and they have a st5 stomp. Each.
    They are the Chosen Chaos Knight we've always wanted.
    Also, they're considered our best unit by most players.

    Lance vs EW

    Which should you take? The lance is cheaper and has a higher St, but the EWs St bonus lasts all the rounds.

    Basically; Lances are more offensive. A hysterical unit of 6 with lances will easily cause 20 wounds. Against most things, There won't be a second round, so the duration of the St bonus doesn't matter.

    However, The EW are better if you take a charge. (which is odd for a unit whose goal is to charge, but, with M7, it's not impossible to be on the recieving end).

    -Builds

    *Grinders: 3 Juggerknights, EW

    *Lancers: 3 Juggerknighst, Lance

    *Grind-quartet: 4 Juggerknights, EW

    *Victory-Train: 6 Juggerknights, Lance

    -Tactics

    * Unless doing an Oblique Order, deploy them in the middle of your front-line and steam-roll your enemy.

    * They work great together with a slaaneshi mage throwing Hysterical frenzy, which will give a total of 4 knight attacks, 4 jugger attacks and 1 jugger stomp per juggerknight in base contact. Also, due to their resilience, you won't need to worry too much about the d6 st 3 hits from Hysterical Frenzy.

    * In fact, The lore of Slaanesh is great for these; Not only can hysterical frenzy give them 8 attacks a model, the first slaaneshi spell, Acquiescence, is godsend to these guys. Even with 4 st6 ws5 attacks, the juggers are I1, meaning they'll strike after everything hard-hitting without ASL (I.E: Mournfangs). Now you can give your opponents ASL. They say Khorne does not care whose blood is spilled. Well, Slaanesh doesn't care what it is, as long it's in excess, whether it's the speed of hellstriders or the frenzy of the juggerknights.

    Shaggoth

    -Summary
    Our old friend is still in the list, hitting as hard as ever.
    With his speed and high strength, he's quite good at killing monsters. Just watch out for cannons.

    He will however have a hard time competing with Hellcannons and Juggerknights.

    -Builds

    *Standard Shaggoth: GW + armour.

    -Tactics

    Mutalith
    Aka Vortex beast aka Tentacle thing

    -Summary
    A big monster with a bound spell.

    Not extremely anything, but, you're most likely going to need the PD for your mage. (Unless you go Mono-khorne).

    -Builds
    -Tactics

    Chaos Spawn
    Aka Spawn
    -Summary
    -Builds
    -Tactics

    Chaos Giant
    aka Giant
    -Summary
    -Builds
    -Tactics

    Slaughterbrute

    -Summary
    A new monster. Unfortunately; Anything the slaughterbrute can do, the shaggoth can do better. ('xcept thunderstomps)

    -Builds
    *See Tactics

    -Tactics
    * If you're playing a friendly game, you can ask your friends if you can use the slaughterbrute model, but with the shaggoth rules.
    Last edited by inq.serge; 22-08-2013 at 16:32.
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  3. #3
    Chapter Master inq.serge's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Common Tactics and Strategies.
    (If you have written a tactic or strategy article, that you want to add here, I'd be glad to add it.)
    __
    The difference between tactics and strategy (according to US Ranger Handbook (1992))

    Tactics: Drills, orders, manoeuvres and tricks you know and can use.

    Strategy: The main battle-plan; what tactics you'll use to achieve victory.

    __
    Go For Glory!
    __

    We're Warriors of Chaos we win by killing the opponent up close, (and with some spells and minimal shooting, but mostly by CC), not by hiding or waiting. WoC Requires you to be aggressive and brave, to charge and to gamble. Just like real life, the chaos gods "reward" the strong and brave who try and achieve, for you can't kill a cannon in combat unless you charge!

    Remember, we don't win by hiding. We don't win by waiting. We win by killing.

    So remember, GO FOR GLORY!

    (Why did you think I named this tactica thread Shrine of Glory?)
    __
    Chaff-Rotation
    (If you have a better name, please tell. Remember that Redirecting is allready taken)
    __

    How to use Warhounds:

    Step 1: Chose target enemy unit.

    Step 2: Move warhounds in-front of the unit, and rotate so that the closest warhound is within 1½", While the whole unit has such an angle, that if target unit charges warhounds (and most likely overruns), they will be positioned in such fashion that you can flank charge target unit with a heavy hitting unit or flame them with a template.

    Step 3: Let them charge and kill and overrun your warhounds. They'll most likely have to do that. if they don't, you'll have an enemy unit that didn't move forward, and might be out of line.

    Step 4: Flank/rear (if you're lucky) charge the target unit (or flame them).

    __
    Oblique Order
    __

    Winning 101:

    Look at this picture:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phalange_oblique.gif

    Small units: Anvils
    Long unit: Hammer (Skullcrushers)

    Simple, and can be reversed with the long unit on the right flank.

    How to make it happen:
    Start by putting upper average (by your armies standard) anvil units in the middle during deployment, and adjust during deployment, the more similar anvils you have, the later during the deployment phase you'll have to make the decision of hammer placement.

    Pro Tip: put your most resilient anvil on the opposite side of your hammer.

    Putting hammer against hammer (and hoping you'll get the first charge) will give you a head start.

    Full wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_order

    __
    Vanguard
    __
    You get a free move pre-game. Sound's simple?

    Well, deployment's quite important, and with a free move comes a new chance to screw up your battle-line.

    Whatever you do, do not move anything that can't flee (Khornate Horsemen) within a heavy hitting units charge range, especially if you go second.

    So, What are you going to move?

    Following units have access to vanguard:

    Hounds: to move them up front can be good, but due to low target priority, won't cause much reaction. You have lots of uses for warhounds (I.E: "scouting mysterious terrain, "Chaff rotation", dying). Moving up front isn't necessarily one of them.

    Horsemen: You don't have to move straight forward, sometimes, moving sideways can be just as good. If armed with Javs, the vanguard move can give you some shots at backfield units. If you're all flailing with khornate horsemen, and going second, you can easily get a first (your) turn charge. However, do not move too close.

    Hellstriders (with Mounted slaaneshi characters): The mounted slaaneshi character is the most powerful and important unit in our army with vanguard (And your hellstriders go nowhere without hir.), and thus the one who will provoke most response by vanguarding. Since steeds of Slaanesh are extremely fast, your main goal with vanguard will either be to move directly to a safer place which you can charge from (if going second) or move to a safer place by combining Vanguard + march, which you can charge from.


    The moves:

    Move from middle to flank: If you're opponent has a "symmetric/Balanced/"Pretty"/Whatever" battle-line, moving all your vanguardians to the same side will give a dis-balance, increasing the chance for a successful oblique order. (Good for Khornate horsemen)

    Move from flank to middle: Doing this with slaaneshi units can make the opponent chose to not put easy targets on that flank. What do slaaneshi units care, they're fast.

    Move forward: Can be good for warhounds if you're planning to chaff-rotate. Also good if you're choir-bombing, not that choir-bombing is reliable in any way. It's simply the most simple move.


    __
    Fast moving armies/ ALLCAV
    __

    I myself am an Allcav player.

    If you are going allcav, remember these things:

    * Chariots are not cav

    * Try to start in the middle of the field. All through lots of players put fast things in the flanks, high speed units are more versatile from the middle of the field, having access to most parts of the battlefield, more so in ALLCAV armies.

    * Whole your army against half your opponents. Like the oblique order, but without anvils.

    * Go for Glory! If you're being shot by stuff, charge! It's not like they'll stop shooting and surrender because your horsies hide behind a building. You only have horsies, and if they're hiding, who'll defeat the enemy?!

    * Don't let your opponents enter buildings! Easier said than done, but with acquiescence/choir, you can force them out.

    * Most important; The main strength of speed is that most if not all your units can be where they need to be, winning combats before enemy reinforcements have a chance to arrive.
    ____
    Last edited by inq.serge; 08-08-2013 at 17:51.
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  4. #4
    Chapter Master inq.serge's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Final Reserved post
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  5. #5

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Just got my hands on the "iVersion" of the new WoC-book and have read some of it. I must say I like most of the updates;

    - Having the marks actually cost per figure instead of per unit, which will allow one to field smaller units (if that is the taste).
    - Making forsaken a core unit makes a huge different.
    - Special unit, yeah that's right, chimera will be a nice model to put up on flanking duty / hunting warmachines (?).
    - Lances are now cheaper than ensorcelled weapons - on the knights - makes more sense than how it was in the previous book.

    Looking forward to watch this thread grow.
    Last edited by ninjapixel; 02-02-2013 at 09:01.

  6. #6

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Looking forward for the Chaos Ogres vs. Trolls discussion.

    Trolls are cheaper but not necessarily better. Ogres instead, are better and cheaper (although they lose 1 point of AS).
    A single ogre with Mark of Nurgle (Khorne or Tzeentch) and GW is 45 pts, the same as the old trolls. (S6 vs S5, -1 to hit, ASL). Even if he has only a 5+ AS, MN make them a lot more resistant. He is hit at 4+ most of the time, and trolls at 3+ against common infantry.

    I think the additional hand weapon option for trolls is quite useless, because only front rank will hit with 4A. At least completely useless against heavy armored troops (vomit is better). On the other hand, 4 attacks for 18pts in a unit of 6, 4 attacks for 24pts in a unit of 8, and 30 in a unit of 10 etc

    Leadership is obviously leaning towards the ogres. L7 vs L5, means trolls have to be baby-sitted all the battle, not only the first turns.

    On the charge, ogres are now common ogres, which means impact hits at S4, 5, or even S6. That leads to the how-to-run-them discussion. Trolls are quite deffensive on the other hand.

    The Dragon Ogres vs. Skullcrushers will be very interesting too
    Last edited by LordKrell; 02-02-2013 at 09:32.

  7. #7
    Chapter Master inq.serge's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by LordKrell View Post
    Looking forward for the Chaos Ogres vs. Trolls discussion.

    Trolls are cheaper but not necessarily better. Ogres instead, are better and cheaper (although they lose 1 point of AS).
    A single ogre with Mark of Nurgle (Khorne or Tzeentch) and GW is 45 pts, the same as the old trolls. Even if he has only a 5+ AS, MN make them a lot more resistant. 4+ most of the time, and trolls at 3+ against common infantry.

    I think the additional hand weapon option for trolls is quite useless, because only front rank will hit with 4A. At least completely useless against heavy armored troops. On the other hand, 4 attacks for 18pts in a unit of 6, 4 attacks for 24pts in a unit of 8, and 30 in a unit of 10.

    Leadership is obviously leaning towards the ogres. L7 vs L5, means trolls have to be baby-sitted all the battle, not only the first turns.

    On the charge, ogres are now common ogres, which means impact hits at S4, 5, or even S6. That leads to the how-to-run-them discussion. Trolls are quite deffensive on the other hand.

    The Dragon Ogres vs. Skullcrushers will be very interesting too
    Obviously, The extra handweapon is useless in a troll unit of 5 or more trolls (or 4 if you go 2x2). Or any troll unit that focuses on Vomiting.

    But trolls have a use: They make good core in a Throgg army, especially since he gives all MI, M, MB and WB his Leadership when they're within 18, whether he's the general or not.

    Drogers ar now Cheaper, an they are special, but the juggerknights are a unit that wipes out units on the charge, and will be fabulous combined with hysterical frenzy (giving the juggers frenzy, and the knights +1 attack). Banner of Rage might also be good if you want 3-4 extra Jugger attacks.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    I just want to mention that the Hellcannon has gotten a lot better with this book:

    It's attacks (including ranged!) are now magical and it has a 5+ true Ward along with the old 5+ 'handler Ward' it used to have.
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  9. #9

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Anyone notice that when a character ascends to Daemon Prince status your opponent gets the points for the character since he counts as a casualty. Kinda puts a damper on shooting for the best result on the table

  10. #10

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameDidntFit View Post
    I just want to mention that the Hellcannon has gotten a lot better with this book:

    It's attacks (including ranged!) are now magical and it has a 5+ true Ward along with the old 5+ 'handler Ward' it used to have.
    It also got a lot worse.
    It's much, much slower now, has to make a kill (or was that wound? Either way ...) to cause panic and the misfire where all wizards were affected will now almost always only affect your own spellcasters.

  11. #11
    Solitaire Avian's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Well, it's not a lot worse, but after having it pointed out that its movement got kicked back to 6th edition levels, I can understand why it got to keep S5(10).
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  12. #12
    Chapter Master Nubl0's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Still a str 5 template so it's awesome. Also it's now more survivable with a true ward and the handler rules.

    The specials section seems to be congested with amazing units, but the top two for me look like the chimera and gorebeast chariot. The chariots is so cheap for the amount of punishment it can take not to mention the damage it can inflict. The chimera on the other hand is practically a flying hydra, well worth the price imo.

  13. #13

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    I told my friend about our new flying Hydra, and he almost cried.
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  14. #14
    Chapter Master Morkash's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Hey fellow Warrior players, I will start my first games this week, until arrival of Wayland's Bag O' Goods I will proxy quite some stuff, but the first draft of my 3k list will look like this:

    (A note before the list: I'm playing Mono Nurgle, so do not wonder why some units are missing. )

    Rhomkar the Pus-Hearted, Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Level 3; Lore of Nurgle) with Chaos Armour, Flaming Breath, Scaled Skin, Soul Feeder, Chaos Familiar, Sword of Striking and Charmed Shield
    (Note: I will more likely use Daemon Princes without Magic and use either 2 Level 2's or one Level 4 and a Level 2, but I wanted to try some new units out and taking a DP with Magic Levels frees up some points)

    Putrificus, Sorcerer of Nurgle (Level 2; Lore of Nurgle) with Skull of Katam and Chalice of Chaos (Tactic: Channeling loads of dice, and if the Ld gets too low, gamble & hoping for Ascendancy)
    Marius the Bloated, Battlestandard Bearer of Nurgle with Poisonous Slime, Enchanted Shield and Dawn Stone (Defensive with poison)
    Throgg, the Troll King (His Strength 8 can't hurt to have)

    The Defilers, 16 Warriors of Nurgle with Halberds and Standardbearer (Putrificus & Marius here)
    The Maggot-minded, 7 Chaos Trolls with additional Handweapons (Throgg here)
    The Hounds of Marius, 2 x 5 Chaos Hounds
    The Rotten Chariot, Chariot of Nurgle

    Chaotic Atrocities, 2 Chimerae with Flaming Breath and Regenerating Flesh
    Harbingers of Pestilence, 6 Knights of Nurgle with Ensorcelled Weapons, Musician and Standardbearer
    The Leveler, Gorebeast Chariot of Nurgle

    Hematemesis, Hellcannon

    Comes out at exactly 3000 points.
    Some thoughts: I never played any list with so few bodies in there, on the other hand there is lots of destruction bound in the units I got. Nurgle's Magic should decimate and weaken large units plus the Daemon Prince is more than able to not only roadblock most hordes for the entire game but also to grind them down while doing so. With support from a Chimera and/or a chariot I expect him to be fine as soon as he's in close combat where he should be in round 2. (hence the Charmed Shield, just in case...and also for the 1+ AS)

    Warriors with Halberds are as good as ever, just more expensive. They are hit on 5's by pretty much every non-character unit in the game and can be buffed with Regeneration should the need arise. Again, chariots and Chimerae can support them, as can the DP depending on what I'm facing. The Trolls should be fine on their own, Throgg is immensely powerful and Trolls with 4 attacks can't hurt. Won't help if they vomit but against infantry units it should be great.

    All in all it's a extremely elite but resilient army since most models have either a high armour save, Regeneration/Ward save or both. Also the Mark of Nurgle should come in handy.

    I'm really looking forward to try it out and will keep you updated.

    If you have any thoughts or ideas of improvement then feel free!
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  15. #15
    Commander Shadow_Steed's Avatar
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    I like the new book. Although I was saddened by the fact that 1) Festus cannot join my Khornate Warriors and 2) That my Nurgle Knights cannot have the banner of frenzy.
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  16. #16

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Steed View Post
    I like the new book. Although I was saddened by the fact that 1) Festus cannot join my Khornate Warriors and 2) That my Nurgle Knights cannot have the banner of frenzy.
    It's a nice thing to have but I always thought it was exceedingly silly that it was possible. Even if only for one edition.

  17. #17

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Now if only GW made better looking chimeras...

  18. #18

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
    Now if only GW made better looking chimeras...
    If willing to pay you can get this awesome looking beast instead of the one from GW.

  19. #19
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    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Avian View Post
    Well, it's not a lot worse, but after having it pointed out that its movement got kicked back to 6th edition levels, I can understand why it got to keep S5(10).
    It also can't move and fire.

    @nubl0 - it is definitely a beast. But while regen is worth taking, I am not entirely sold on the breath weapon. I would definitely take one over the new monsters
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  20. #20

    Re: Shrine of Glory: WoC Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    It also can't move and fire.

    @nubl0 - it is definitely a beast. But while regen is worth taking, I am not entirely sold on the breath weapon. I would definitely take one over the new monsters
    Breath weapon means 2d6 extra hits in combat. Worth it for that alone.

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