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Thread: Eldar FAQ up

  1. #21
    Chapter Master IncrediSteve's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Can we take a step back and acknowledge that GW has released their fifth codex in 8 months? Or have we already forgotten that it used to be only 3-4 books [fantasy included!] per year?

    We're going to have all armies with the same edition and design philosophy, at the same time, for the first time since the skeletal armylists in the 3rd Edition Rulebook. That's awesome.

    Rules in a codex go through lots of changes during testing, and each change makes the document need to be updated in multiple places. It's easy for something to slip through [hence why the Summary is notorious for incorrect stats, as it has to get updated the most]. At some point they have to stop editing and send it to the printers. It doesn't magically just turn into a book, it takes time. During that time, they have time to notice additional errors that made it into the final print, and then release an errata correcting it as soon as the book is available.
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  2. #22

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    If one weapon entry is all that needs to be FAQ'ed, I'll be happy. Seems a bit strange though that it was released before the actual codex was on the shelf though
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  3. #23
    Chapter Master Horus38's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by IncrediSteve View Post
    Can we take a step back and acknowledge that GW has released their fifth codex in 8 months? Or have we already forgotten that it used to be only 3-4 books [fantasy included!] per year?

    We're going to have all armies with the same edition and design philosophy, at the same time, for the first time since the skeletal armylists in the 3rd Edition Rulebook. That's awesome.

    Rules in a codex go through lots of changes during testing, and each change makes the document need to be updated in multiple places. It's easy for something to slip through [hence why the Summary is notorious for incorrect stats, as it has to get updated the most]. At some point they have to stop editing and send it to the printers. It doesn't magically just turn into a book, it takes time. During that time, they have time to notice additional errors that made it into the final print, and then release an errata correcting it as soon as the book is available.
    QFT ^ Love how a quick errata because it seems they forgot to add the monofilament rule to a weapon entry has people jumping all over GW because that's just the cool thing to do on warseer
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  4. #24
    Downward Spiral Felwether's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    IncrediSteve nailed it.
    Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

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  5. #25

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Well, if whining deserves ridicule and pointing and laughing, I guess blindly accepting inadequacy is just as deserving, right?

    Don't know about you, but when I go and buy a cheeseburger they left the cheese out of and then consume it, I don't find anything "awesome" about being able to go back to the burger joint to get that slice of cheese and eat it away from the burger, even if I did get it for free. Unfair analogy, I am well aware, but since those are never valid arguments, here's another.

    Yeah, we're getting codices real fast.. That's super cool awesome. Except these things don't have much thought behind them anymore. What they're thinking about is getting some pages out there onto the shelves so they can make their money back off it. If they then read through their product after the fact and realize "Shoot son, we fudged up." and then give us the missing content we rightly deserve, how is that awesome? When I pay prices such as GWs for a product, I expect to get all of what I paid for in that product, not spread across the bloody internet.

  6. #26

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Their typo and mistake rates haven't changed much despite increasing the output, that's pretty good. But GW are now trying to sell us these books as 'high quality' or 'limited edition collector's items' for double the old price citing that as necessary due to hard cover and full colour. If they don't push actual quality control at the same time, they're just ridiculing themselves.

    If these were softcover at the old price, I wouldn't bat an eye (even here in OZ) and just be glad they release faqs that quickly. But they're claiming to deliver high quality these days while still bringing out day 1 mistake erratas, and I say that's not enough quality for the money they're now asking.
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  7. #27
    Chapter Master Gimp's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by M@L@L View Post
    Well, if whining deserves ridicule and pointing and laughing, I guess blindly accepting inadequacy is just as deserving, right?

    Don't know about you, but when I go and buy a cheeseburger they left the cheese out of and then consume it, I don't find anything "awesome" about being able to go back to the burger joint to get that slice of cheese and eat it away from the burger, even if I did get it for free. Unfair analogy, I am well aware, but since those are never valid arguments, here's another.

    Yeah, we're getting codices real fast.. That's super cool awesome. Except these things don't have much thought behind them anymore. What they're thinking about is getting some pages out there onto the shelves so they can make their money back off it. If they then read through their product after the fact and realize "Shoot son, we fudged up." and then give us the missing content we rightly deserve, how is that awesome? When I pay prices such as GWs for a product, I expect to get all of what I paid for in that product, not spread across the bloody internet.
    Your analogy is pretty unfair.

    Here the FAQ is released even before the Codex. So in truth you get your burger but before you even eat it the wait relises his mistake and brings you the slice.

    In the past you had to wait ages for the waiter to bring you your slice and you and your friends just sat around arguing about whether or not the cook meant to add or leave out the cheese. See where I am going here.


    But your right about the releasing codexs so early. Yes its great but they need to be well thought out and not rushed.

    And I dont mind the higher price to be honest. The old codexs just used to fall apart. But I do miss the old black and white.
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  8. #28

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimp View Post
    Your analogy is pretty unfair.

    Here the FAQ is released even before the Codex. So in truth you get your burger but before you even eat it the wait relises his mistake and brings you the slice.

    In the past you had to wait ages for the waiter to bring you your slice and you and your friends just sat around arguing about whether or not the cook meant to add or leave out the cheese. See where I am going here.


    But your right about the releasing codexs so early. Yes its great but they need to be well thought out and not rushed.

    And I dont mind the higher price to be honest. The old codexs just used to fall apart. But I do miss the old black and white.
    Never said it wasn't unfair. :P And since these are hardback full cover, yeah, 30 quid a pop would be justified. If the quality matched the worth, that is.

  9. #29

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Warhammer codices aren't books any longer, they are instruction manuals, similar to what you may find for a video game. And we all know how many day one patches are released for video games these days. Remember when FAQs and video game patches were limited? Seems everyone wants your money first, so that you can get a well developed product later.

    And before you know it, we'll be seeing Kickstarter projects for codices, with goals that include "$30k: playstesting for five hours; $35k, copy editing the work not once, but twice; and the holy grail $40k balance against at least ONE other codex!

    It's a wonderful future. You will see.
    Last edited by dooms33ker; 27-05-2013 at 06:35.

  10. #30
    Chapter Master The bearded one's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by M@L@L View Post
    Unfair analogy, I am well aware,
    Good

    I'm going to wait and see. If their biggest noticable mistake here is they forgot to add monofilament to that weapon's profile and that's more or less it for this codex, I don't really find it a problem. The Tau codex thusfar has a total of 4 faq/errata entries, only one being a real (sorta large) mistake on the missiledrones, while the others are mostly clarification or 'duh, of course' entries, two of which I would never even have noticed. Apart from these 4 I have so far not noticed anything in that codex either. So I'll see, wether it's just this or more. Is the cook's mistake limited to a small corner of the cheese or more?
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  11. #31

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    There's the old saying. You can do it fast, you can do it right, you can do it cheap; pick two.

    And it's hard to position your product as a premium luxury item if you don't have good quality control.

  12. #32
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by ehlijen View Post
    Their typo and mistake rates haven't changed much despite increasing the output, that's pretty good. But GW are now trying to sell us these books as 'high quality' or 'limited edition collector's items' for double the old price citing that as necessary due to hard cover and full colour. If they don't push actual quality control at the same time, they're just ridiculing themselves.
    Nontheless they will be going on ebay for 100+ in a few weeks ... they do it because it works (i.e. it makes money)

    Mark.

  13. #33

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    I do miss the old paperbacks, they were more flipable during play and i always felt happier abusing then (chucking then in the boot of my car, putting drying models on them etc.) Than their more expensive hardback equivalents. A lot of people complain that the paperbacks were too fragile but i never had that problem.

    Hats off to GW at the moment though, their codex rate is great currently and so far the books seem reasonably balanced, albeit over complicated. They are also doing well on the kit front by getting most of the models out in a very timely fashion.
    Last edited by Camman1984; 27-05-2013 at 09:53. Reason: grammar error

  14. #34

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by Camman1984 View Post
    I do miss the old paperbacks, they were more flipable during play and i always felt happier abusing then (chucking then in the boot of my car, putting drying models on them etc.) Hats off to GW at the moment though, their codex rate is great currently and so far the books seem reasonably balanced, albeit over complicated.
    Over complicated? Really?

  15. #35

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Wasnt very clear with what j meant. I mean every new book seems to come with a raft of special rules for every unit and tons of different synergies. I think its excellent to have those fiddly bits but it can slow down the game sometimes.

    My main necron opponent often forgets half the rules his units have. And tau have a crazy amount of options to remember.

  16. #36

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by daveNYC View Post
    There's the old saying. You can do it fast, you can do it right, you can do it cheap; pick two.

    And it's hard to position your product as a premium luxury item if you don't have good quality control.
    So which two apply for GW's books?

    Are they done fast and cheap, but wrong?
    Are they done fast and right, but expensive?
    Are they done cheap and right, but slow?

    Seems to me we only get the one choice, fast (if they keep up the current trend). Though I guess that is an improvment as the books used to be all three, expensive, slow and wrong.

  17. #37

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly Neighbour View Post
    So which two apply for GW's books?

    Are they done fast and cheap, but wrong?
    Are they done fast and right, but expensive?
    Are they done cheap and right, but slow?

    Seems to me we only get the one choice, fast (if they keep up the current trend). Though I guess that is an improvment as the books used to be all three, expensive, slow and wrong.
    Comparing the expense of making them to profit of selling them, I'd say the hardbacks are essentially cheap for gw.
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  18. #38
    Chapter Master thrawn's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    um, why can't i find them?
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  19. #39

    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly Neighbour View Post
    So which two apply for GW's books?

    Are they done fast and cheap, but wrong?
    Are they done fast and right, but expensive?
    Are they done cheap and right, but slow?

    Seems to me we only get the one choice, fast (if they keep up the current trend). Though I guess that is an improvment as the books used to be all three, expensive, slow and wrong.
    I never actually said that GW had two of the items covered. :-)

  20. #40
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    Re: Eldar FAQ up

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly Neighbour View Post
    So which two apply for GW's books?

    Are they done fast and cheap, but wrong?
    Are they done fast and right, but expensive?
    Are they done cheap and right, but slow?

    Seems to me we only get the one choice, fast (if they keep up the current trend). Though I guess that is an improvment as the books used to be all three, expensive, slow and wrong.
    Highlighted the correct answer

    Considering the amount of info in the books, the amount of time they have to release it, and everything else that happens in house, the editing process is done to the best of their ability.

    If they released the main rule-book once every 4 years and NOTHING else in the time in between, so all the info you will need is in the RB... you wont find mistakes as they will have an entire company, over 12-18 months writing new rules.

    Except they have 4-5 people per book over 6 months to write rules and play test them before release and moving onto a new topic, and in those 6 months the book isn't the only thing they are working on, in the case of the proof readers, they may have 9-10 different projects to check.

    As someone said above, there are textbooks for topics in universities that even in their 6th revision, will still have mistakes. The Bible even, has misprints here and there, and I would have to say that that is the most important book in the world (not from a religious stand point, but from how many copies are sold, and how important it is to its readers, religions and other places)

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