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Thread: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

  1. #221

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by VLadimyr View Post
    Why are Ogre Kingdoms characters not allowed to have Iron Fists? Did you find them to be unbalancing?
    At the time the idea was to limit the armour saves of ogres to give the army a focus and stay true to the fluff. That is also the reason why they have no access to the enchanted shield.
    Looking back, I don't think this limitation is need or that access to more defensive equipment would be unbalancing. But I also don't think it is necessary to water down the character of the army by allowing more heavily armoured oger characters as most people I know prefer to equip their ogre characters more offensively anyway.

    But if players really want this option, we can make it work.
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  2. #222
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    It's not that important, and certainly not required. I just happen to be one of those players that occasionally equipped his ogre characters (and miniatures) defensively in previous editions, as the option was available at the time. However, considering that Ogre characters (other than the Hunter) do not have the option for being mounted, it would be nice to have an Iron Fist option, if only to be a little less predictable with my characters.

    Either way, keep up the good work! I am really enjoying Warhammer CE. Next game with 4 players in a week!

  3. #223
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    A couple of questions from our last game:

    1) Cannons need to have LOS to the target unit, but do not need LOS to the target point in front of the unit. Is this correct? This would mean that a unit on a hill could be targeted by a cannon located on level ground even if the target point is obscured by intervening troops.

    2) Can units that ignore difficult terrain (such as Yhetees) ignore the effects of rivers/lakes? Or are they affected by water features in the same way as skirmishers/light infantry?

    3) The generic rules for Giants are not the same as the specific special rules for Giants in some individual army lists. Which takes precedence?

    4) The Dwarf Anvil of Doom is classified as a War Machine mount, so it may move 3” in the movement phase (but not march). Is this correct?

    5) Suppose that a unit consists of a hero on foot (US 1), 4 rank and file models, and a unit champion (for a total of 6 models). The hero is granted protection by the unit due to the 5 rank and file models (including the champion). The champion is not granted protection by the unit because there are only 4 rank and file models present (other than himself). So if a single ranged attack on this unit caused 10 hits, then these hits would need to be divided amongst the unit as follows: each of the 4 rank and file models, as well as the unit champion, would take 2 hits and the hero would remain unharmed by this particular attack. Is this correct?

    Thanks very much, and keep up the great work!

  4. #224

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. (Holidays and the site being down kept me from replying!)

    Quote Originally Posted by VLadimyr View Post
    A couple of questions from our last game:

    1) Cannons need to have LOS to the target unit, but do not need LOS to the target point in front of the unit. Is this correct? This would mean that a unit on a hill could be targeted by a cannon located on level ground even if the target point is obscured by intervening troops.
    Correct! You have to have LOS to the target unit not to the target point. (The target point is only used as a game mechanism, i.e. the crew is actually targeting the unit.)
    I thought that I added a paragraph that described how cannon balls bouncing up and down hills are handled but I can't seem to find it right now :confused:
    I will have to double check. If it's really missing, it will be added in the next update. Basically the cannon ball stops as soon as there is a change in elevation (up or down).


    2) Can units that ignore difficult terrain (such as Yhetees) ignore the effects of rivers/lakes? Or are they affected by water features in the same way as skirmishers/light infantry?
    Units that ignore difficult terrain do NOT ignore the effects of rivers/lakes because rivers/lakes count as "very difficult terrain" which is its own category. This means that they are affected by water features in the same way as skirmishers/light infantry.

    3) The generic rules for Giants are not the same as the specific special rules for Giants in some individual army lists. Which takes precedence?
    The special rules in the army lists take precedence. The only difference should be how the model is affected by psychology. Are there other differences I missed?

    4) The Dwarf Anvil of Doom is classified as a War Machine mount, so it may move 3 in the movement phase (but not march). Is this correct?
    Yes. This is intentional to allow the old model (anvil on wheels) to be used and (slowly) move around the battlefield. Also keep in mind that warmachines are not allowed to charge.

    5) Suppose that a unit consists of a hero on foot (US 1), 4 rank and file models, and a unit champion (for a total of 6 models). The hero is granted protection by the unit due to the 5 rank and file models (including the champion). The champion is not granted protection by the unit because there are only 4 rank and file models present (other than himself). So if a single ranged attack on this unit caused 10 hits, then these hits would need to be divided amongst the unit as follows: each of the 4 rank and file models, as well as the unit champion, would take 2 hits and the hero would remain unharmed by this particular attack. Is this correct?
    This is also correct. It is a border case but you have to draw the line somewhere. Just imagine that the champion sacrifices itself for the character model

    Thanks very much, and keep up the great work!
    You're welcome!
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  5. #225
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Hello Again!

    1) Regarding the cannon on the Empire Steam Tank, it differs from a regular cannon in that it allows armor saves, has no grapeshot option, and has a unique misfire chart. It still automatically wounds the first model it hits, correct?

    2) Does the Ogre Kingdoms Braingobbler spell (panic test) cause the target to flee initially from the caster, or towards the nearest table edge?

    3) With war machines, we have been removing one crew model for each wound taken (reducing the number of attacks in CC), with the war machine being destroyed once all of the crew have been removed. This works great when the number of wounds is equal to the number of crew, but how is this resolved when they are not? For example, a High Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower has 3 wounds, but only 2 crew.

    Thanks very much!

  6. #226

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by VLadimyr View Post
    Hello Again!

    1) Regarding the cannon on the Empire Steam Tank, it differs from a regular cannon in that it allows armor saves, has no grapeshot option, and has a unique misfire chart. It still automatically wounds the first model it hits, correct?
    Correct. (I will have to add a line to clarify that the Steam Tank has no grapeshot option though!)

    2) Does the Ogre Kingdoms Braingobbler spell (panic test) cause the target to flee initially from the caster, or towards the nearest table edge?
    The target unit flees from the caster just like it is the case with other ranged attacks or damage spells.

    3) With war machines, we have been removing one crew model for each wound taken (reducing the number of attacks in CC), with the war machine being destroyed once all of the crew have been removed. This works great when the number of wounds is equal to the number of crew, but how is this resolved when they are not? For example, a High Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower has 3 wounds, but only 2 crew.
    Always use the number of crew models, the wounds for the WM is ignored. I will amend the wounds of the WM to match the number of crew models to prevent confusion. Btw, the chaos dwarf crew models should only have a single wound. This is a typo!

    Thanks very much!
    Thanks for the heads up!
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  7. #227
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Hello:

    1) When a flying monster fails a stupidity check, does it use it's ground movement or flying movement?

    2) Due to the fact that a character cannot join another character to form a unit, if shooting reduces a unit to zero rank and file models leaving only the 2 characters remaining, I assume that they must separate into 2 independent characters during their next movement phase. Is this correct?

    Thanks very much!

  8. #228

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by VLadimyr View Post
    Hello:

    1) When a flying monster fails a stupidity check, does it use it's ground movement or flying movement?

    2) Due to the fact that a character cannot join another character to form a unit, if shooting reduces a unit to zero rank and file models leaving only the 2 characters remaining, I assume that they must separate into 2 independent characters during their next movement phase. Is this correct?

    Thanks very much!
    1) Yes, units that fail a stupidity check always use their ground movement. The phrase "the unit moves [...] with half movement allowance" refers to the characteristic 'Movement Allowance (M)' but I will clarify this in the next update.

    2) This is correct.
    Outside of close combat: As soon as a unit is destroyed, all characters that were were part of the unit are treated as single models, i.e. each character is a unit of one.
    In close combat: In the cc round a unit with characters in it gets destroyed, the remaining characters of the unit only have to take a single break test which includes all modifiers of the unit that are still relevant like rank bonus. In the next round of cc, i.e. when the characters do not start the combat round together in a single unit, each character is treated as a single unit and individually has to pass a break test. In both cases, should the character models break from combat, the flight distance is determined for each character individually and each character is treated as a single model (this way different movement speeds of the characters are taken into account).

    Thanks for your questions!
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  9. #229

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Click image for larger version. 

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    An armylist creator for Warhammer CE has been released.
    You need an installed Java Runtime Environment 7+ (version 7 or higher).

    For starting ArmyCreator you need to start the ArmyCreator.jar file (normally by double-clicking the JAR file).

    The Army selection screen should open:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    In this screen you can select the army you want to ceate a list for and also check for updates by clicking on "Updates":
    Click image for larger version. 

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    After you have selected your army and clicked on "Load" you can design your army list:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    After finishing your armylist you can save it (for reopening it later) or save the army list as an HTML file (you can print this file via your preferred webbrowser).

    AmryCreator can be downloaded from this link: http://myovaron.de/armycreator/foren...tor_latest.zip


    At the moment datafiles for the following Armies are avaiable: Empire, Ogre Kingdoms, High Elves, Bretonnia, Beasts of Chaos, Deamons of Chaos, Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Dark Elves.

    New datafiles and new program versions will be distributed via the included update manager.

    Happy list creation.

  10. #230

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Warseer ist back and Warhammer CE is still going strong!

    Update:
    Added version 1.03 of the LRB as well as the corresponding changelog to the download section in the first post.

    Have fun playing "classic" Warhammer in the Old World!
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  11. #231
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Hello again!

    With regards to redirecting a charge, must the 2nd enemy unit be visible to the charging unit prior to the 1st enemy unit moving its flee distance? Or can one wait until the fleeing unit has been moved (in order to determine new eligible charge options) before declaring that one is redirecting the charge?

    Thanks very much!

  12. #232

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Welcome back!

    Redirecting a charge is currently declared in the "resolving charges" subphase, i.e. after the target unit fled in the "compulsory moves" subphase.

    The timing steps are as follows:

    1. Unit A declares a charge at target unit B (declare charges subphase)
    2. Target unit B declares "flee" as charge response (declare charge response subphase)
    3. Target unit B flees (compulsory moves subphase)
    4. Before Unit A resolves its charge it may declare to charge target unit C instead if the respective conditions are met (resolve charges subphase)
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  13. #233

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    The next update (1.04) is currently in the design stage.

    Overview of the most important changes:
    • Return to 6th ed warmachine rules, i.e. guessing ranges (?)
    • Magic: revision of the spells (complexity, point costs, limitations, effects)
    • Addition of State Troups / Detachments for the Empire
    • Revision of Skaven weapon teams (to fix problems with the fluff)
    • Kislev and Norsca lists will be included in LRB 1.04
    • Addition of new units (Reiksgarde (Empire), Changebringer (Tzeentch)) and new equipment options for existing units
    • A lot of clarifications, minor changes and point cost adjustments

    The schedule for the next update is as follows:
    Until the end of March: discussion of the changes
    End of April: release of preliminary version 1.04
    Until the end of May: correction of errors as well as clarifications and minor amendments
    May 31: release of LRB v1.05

    Starting with version 1.05, the LRB will be updated annually.

    One of the most important changes that is currently discussed, is the return to 6th ed rules for warmachines (guessing ranges).
    What are your thoughts on this topic? Are you looking forward to going back to guessing or do you prefer the current system?

    Another important topic is the revision of spells.
    Which spells do you think are in need of an adjustment and in what form?

    Also, if you have any other changes/wishes/ideas for the next update, please post them below.
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  14. #234
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Hello:

    If we return to guessing ranges for warmachines, would the point values of these units change? Would the scatter rules remain as they are now?

    Personally, I prefer the way that the warmachines work currently, due to the following:

    1. guessing ranges make certain warmachines quite weak relative to others (catapult)

    2. it tends to slow the game down, with much deliberation

    3. it rewards taking multiple guess-range warmachines in a battery, because the first machine guesses the range, and then the rest know the exact range

    What is the reasoning for changing back to guess range?

  15. #235

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by VLadimyr View Post
    Hello:

    If we return to guessing ranges for warmachines, would the point values of these units change? Would the scatter rules remain as they are now?
    The point values would stay the same.
    The rules for the unit type "warmachine" would stay the same as will the rules for templates.
    Everthing in regard to shooting the warmachines would return to the rules as they were in 6/7th Edition, i.e. for catapults: scattering without substracting BS but hit symbols would mean no scatter; for cannons: no scattering, just bouncing, etc.


    Personally, I prefer the way that the warmachines work currently, due to the following:

    1. guessing ranges make certain warmachines quite weak relative to others (catapult)

    2. it tends to slow the game down, with much deliberation
    That is true. It would also require to reintroduce a separate subphase for guess weapons.
    I like that you currently can shoot with any unit in any order you like...


    3. it rewards taking multiple guess-range warmachines in a battery, because the first machine guesses the range, and then the rest know the exact range
    You would have to declare the target and range for each warmachine before you resolve them one after the other. This way you cannot use information about the ranges of other warmachines (in the same phase).

    What is the reasoning for changing back to guess range?
    A lot of players told me that they prefer the 6th edition warmachine rules. Most of them regard guessing as a skill and like that their ability to guess ranges has an effect in the game.
    In the beginning, the changes to the warmachine rules in WCE were introduced because many players voiced their displeasure with guessing ranges. But since I don't know how many of those players actually play WCE, I am currently trying to evaluate which group is in the majority. Because there is no point in having rules in effect that most of the player base is not fond of.
    If the majority prefers going back to guessing ranges for warmachines, then I will keep the current rules as optional rules in an appendix for those that prefer them. So no loss there.
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  16. #236
    Brother Sergeant
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Well, if it comes down to votes, you can place me firmly in the "keep it as it currently is" group, as I believe that a return to guess ranges would be a step backwards, and not a positive one.

    That being said, I will continue to play Warhammer CE regardless of the outcome, as it is the best version of Warhammer Fantasy Battle that I have ever played!

    Keep up the great work, Seelenhaendler! I look forward to Version 1.04!

  17. #237

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    There is a poll for this topic in the german forum HERE where you can vote or check the current results. The poll ends at the end of march.
    Options are:
    • no changes
    • current rules but in modified form, e.g. no scatter for cannons
    • going back to guessing (classic 7th ed rules)
    • going back to guessing but in modified form


    I will also count any votes that are cast in this thread here on warseer.
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  18. #238

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Notification

    I am sorry to report that the release of version 1.04 will be delayed by a few weeks.

    The new schedule for the next update is as follows:
    End of May: release of preliminary version 1.04
    Until the end of June: correction of errors as well as clarifications and minor amendments
    June 30: release of LRB v1.05

    Reasons:
    Although there are no major changes coming, there are several changes that affect the rule set in multiple places (e.g. spell revision, ranged weapons/warmachines revision) or need special attention as they interfere with the basic turn sequence (detachments for the Empire).
    As updates are going to be released annually in the future, I will use the extra time to make sure that everything works as intended.

    Thanks for your interest in Warhammer CE!
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

  19. #239
    Commander Kisanis's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    I liek the work you've done so far.

    Im still somewhat confused about army composition.

    Can you try and explain this again here? I dont see any restrictions on common, special, or rare units.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    I have too many project armies to list...
    Check out my Painting Blog! Comments/Criticism welcome! Historicals, 40k, Fantasy and more! - 2016 Model Count: 68 Bought/10 Painted
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemonia View Post
    In other words as a rock player I find that changes to scissors are fair, balanced and reasonable but that paper has been made too strong in this edition and should be nerfed.

  20. #240

    Re: Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisanis View Post
    I liek the work you've done so far.

    Im still somewhat confused about army composition.

    Can you try and explain this again here? I dont see any restrictions on common, special, or rare units.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    Welcome!

    The reason why you don't see any restrictions on core, special or rare units is because there are none
    I will add a paragraph in the next version of the LRB to clarify this.

    The only restrictions are:
    Each army must include:
    - 1 general
    - 0-1 BSB
    - 0-1 Lord level character

    That's it!

    The idea behind this is the following:
    Warhammer CE tries to make the point efficiency of all choices as close as possible. Therby making it irrelevant if a unit counts as a rare or a special choice for example.
    See also post #115 for more information on composition.

    Some players prefer to use additional composition rules, like:
    max. 50% character models
    min. 25% core
    max. 50% special
    max. 25% rare

    But currently these are completely optional, because most players prefer the freedom the current composition system provides.
    I probably will add more advanced composition rules as optional rules in the future as there still some specific army builds possible (like highly mobile armies) that can cause problems. Therfore, it might be necessary to limit 'ultra mobile elements' for examlpe (like light cavalry, flyers, etc.) whether they are core, special or rare choices.

    If you are new to Warhammer (and especially WCE) you can try the follwoing "Balanced Army Guidelines":

    Balanced Army 2000p
    Command 300p (15%)
    (General, BSB)
    Magic 300p (15%)
    (2 Wizards with 3-4 Spells)
    Anvil 400p (20%)
    (2-3 Infantry Blocks)
    Hammer 300p (15%)
    (1 Cavalry unit + Chariot or Monstrous Infantry)
    Shooting 300p (15%)
    (2-3 Warmachines / Missile Troops)
    Support 200p (10%)
    (Light Cavalry, Skirmishers, Chaff)
    Fun 200p (10%)
    (Monster/Warmachine or more of the above)
    ____________
    2000p

    Thanks for your interest in Warhammer CE and have fun playing Warhammer in the Old World!
    If you are interested in experiencing WFB in a new way, have a look at the Warhammer CE: the definitive rule set for WFB veterans thread!

    Also check out the WFB CE Battle Report!

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