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Thread: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

  1. #21

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Definitely an missed opportunity. Same with the Hemlock.

    I actually think the Crimson Hunters should came with Holofields as standard, and that the Exarch should of came with another Exarch ability: This Exarch ignores the Snap Shot rule. That means he would be able to Jink enemy fire on a 4+ and return fire next round with full BS.

    That's what I would of done if I was the designer. Also, if you look at the Hemlock, it should of really come with torrent weapons. The design is so off and irregular with the other Wraithscythes that it physically induces pain in my head.

    No matter what, I will run one in my lists. Why? Because I love aircraft and these guys are the Top Gun of 40K (although their rules are a bit disappointing!).

  2. #22

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Crimson Hunter is usable, maybe not competitive. Arguably the Exarch should have the ability to ignore Jink save on a hit of 5+, making it comparable to a 5+ precision shot, but at the end of the day, its applicability is tied directly to your ability to have it come on after enemy fliers, meaning reserve manipulation.

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  3. #23
    Chapter Master Spell_of_Destruction's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    I think mandragola's criticisms are a bit OTT. I can see it doing badly in a spam heavy competitive environment where players are gearing towards countering night scythe and hell drake spam.

    In a non optimised environment I think it will be fun to use. I will run one with an autarch in a mixed mech list. Use the first turn to heavily target enemy AA and ensure that you are applying plenty of pressure the turn you bring the CH on to the board.

  4. #24
    Chapter Master Mandragola's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    I did say you can go ahead and use it in casual games with no real problems. It will sometimes do stuff. It just won't ever work if your opponent has his own AA.

    I do think there's a fairly fundamental issue, in that its job is to hunt other flyers but it's not particularly efficient at doing so. Basically most flyers have about as much chance of killing the crimson hunter as it has of killing them. Something like a storm talon or night scythe will drop a crimson hunter and cost a whole lot less than it does. It's all about who comes on first, which is essentially random. Other people can manipulate reserve rolls too.

    To be fair, it does have phenomenal firepower - probably better than any other plane for AA (BA storm raven might beat it here while missiles last). The issue is just whether it gets to fire. Against me, it never - ever - would.

  5. #25

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    But again, those units are from the previous edition; right now, the CH might not be efficient in all environment (I know in my meta it would probably be a game winner because of the relatively low number of flyers and AA), but once the "problem flyers" are corrected, and I'm sure they will be, it will probably increase its potency in a number of environments, except maybe Tau-heavy. The only "problem flyer" of the current edition shouldn't be a problem, and quad guns and the like can be dealt with before the CH comes into play. And with the Autarch, you can increase the odds of it coming into play when it is safer to do so.

  6. #26

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandragola View Post
    I did say you can go ahead and use it in casual games with no real problems. It will sometimes do stuff. It just won't ever work if your opponent has his own AA.

    I do think there's a fairly fundamental issue, in that its job is to hunt other flyers but it's not particularly efficient at doing so. Basically most flyers have about as much chance of killing the crimson hunter as it has of killing them. Something like a storm talon or night scythe will drop a crimson hunter and cost a whole lot less than it does. It's all about who comes on first, which is essentially random. Other people can manipulate reserve rolls too.

    To be fair, it does have phenomenal firepower - probably better than any other plane for AA (BA storm raven might beat it here while missiles last). The issue is just whether it gets to fire. Against me, it never - ever - would.

    I dunno. As a veteran Nightwing player I've been pretty successful coming onto the map outside of interceptor range. Either that or I blow up the quad gun with something such as Rangers.

    The CH will take out a Helldrake in a hurry, that's what I need it to do.

  7. #27

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quad Guns seem like the biggest annoyance. The in-list anti-air is usually expensive and inefficient, but the Quad Gun gets interceptor as well, which means it isn't even crippled if you bring no flyers.

    I'll probably hold it back as long as possible (with Autarch) until the high threat target (Heldrake) appears and then come on and Alpha Strike it. It should be generally possible to do without getting into Quad Gun range.
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  8. #28

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    This is how you use it:

    1) Bring Comms Relay
    2) Pick to go second and don't try to steal initiative
    3) If enemy flier doesn't come to table on Turn 2 and you don't want to kill his Tanks, reroll any succesfull Reserve rolls
    4) If enemy flier or fliers are on table zoom far to their side ark, use Vector Dancer to turn and blow them out of the sky -> With just 90 degree turn and minimum 18" move they don't really get to Vector Strike or shoot back unless they have turret weaponry that actually shoot fliers (like Heldrake with no Baleflamer, how often you see that?)
    5) If needed Jink and fly off board
    6) Rinse and repeat

    I bet with smart use I think even a single, naked Crimson Hunter can easily drop two Nightscythes or Heldrakes during a single game. A pair of them can positively demolish a typical Necron Flier + Heldrake ally list.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Can you fly off the board upon arrival? I could be a good idea if you want to come in after your opponent's flyers are on it?
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  10. #30

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    hmmz if only blind persisted till the subsequent turn there might be a use for swooping hawks to harass and debuff aa units...

    Im going to make a hemlock cause i like the model i dont expect to ever field it oe a crimson hunter unless im trolling someone in a friendly game... the overall lack of access interceptor in our new codex was probably one of the few real disappointments after seeing what a power house of pew pew tau are.

  11. #31

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by steevn View Post
    Can you fly off the board upon arrival? I could be a good idea if you want to come in after your opponent's flyers are on it?
    No. You can't.

    On the matter of Necron fliers - the Crimson Hunter is great against Heldrakes, Stormraven and Psyraven, but rather bad against Nightscythes. You'd maybe kill one in one volley and die the turn after and lose out on the trade, or very possibly just straight up die to your opponent's Quadcannon. If it had Interceptor or had ways to get Interceptor than that'd be a different story.

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  12. #32
    Chapter Master Mandragola's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by mercury14 View Post
    The CH will take out a Helldrake in a hurry, that's what I need it to do.
    This is a fair point. It isn't particularly vulnerable against chaos as it should be able to stay behind helldrakes, or more than 36" from their board edge so they can't swat it. They often don't have quad guns as they tend to bring comm relays. Otherwise, Eldar are vulnerable to helldrakes as most of their ground-based stuff is low-ish strength, and lots also relies on co bet saves to survive - or not if they meet bale flamers. So I suppose maybe it makes sense to take one for those games against chaos. It may not be good but it may be required.

    I think it's wishful thinking to hope flyers get changed. They brought out death from the skies, made tiny changes to a couple of the marine ones, and that's all. That was their chance to update stuff if they wanted to. Anyway the best and worst flyers, the helldrake and nephilim, are both in 6th edition books.

  13. #33

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandragola View Post
    Anyway the best and worst flyers, the helldrake and nephilim, are both in 6th edition books.
    Might be interesting to do an overview of all non-Apocalypse flyers (5E, 6E, and Forgeworld) and see where they fall.

    The Attak Fighta is probably the weakest (but cheap), the Roc-pattern Stormeagle probably the toughest and hardest-hitting (but very expensive).

  14. #34

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Waxdollninja View Post
    hmmz if only blind persisted till the subsequent turn there might be a use for swooping hawks to harass and debuff aa units...

    Im going to make a hemlock cause i like the model i dont expect to ever field it oe a crimson hunter unless im trolling someone in a friendly game... the overall lack of access interceptor in our new codex was probably one of the few real disappointments after seeing what a power house of pew pew tau are.
    I thought Blind works til then end off the models next turn.

    Interestingly A Defense line and a Comms relay cost the same as a naked Autarch. The delaying effect is slightly worse with the Comms relay, but It could be an alternative.

  15. #35
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by BooTMGSG View Post
    Interestingly A Defense line and a Comms relay cost the same as a naked Autarch. The delaying effect is slightly worse with the Comms relay, but It could be an alternative.
    The delaying effect is slightly better with a Comms relay by my calculation: ~55.6%
    With the Autarch: 50.0%
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  16. #36

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by NixonAsADaemonPrince View Post
    The delaying effect is slightly better with a Comms relay by my calculation: ~55.6%
    With the Autarch: 50.0%
    Right you are.
    Did failure^2 and not 1-(failure^2).

    The Aegis line could has be useful for sticking some Guardians behind. 2++ with warlock buff, and if he fails you can still go to ground for 2++.

    Could do with a better model, it is so crude and ugly, as though some hamfisted monkey put it together.

  17. #37
    Chapter Master Str10_hurts's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Any ideas about an exarch crimson hunter and marksman with starcannons?
    It should neuter a standard marine squad by picking out the heavy and special weapon. Should be fun but is this set-up anywhere near worth its price-tag.
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  18. #38

    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by BooTMGSG View Post
    Right you are.
    Did failure^2 and not 1-(failure^2).

    The Aegis line could has be useful for sticking some Guardians behind. 2++ with warlock buff, and if he fails you can still go to ground for 2++.

    Could do with a better model, it is so crude and ugly, as though some hamfisted monkey put it together.
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  19. #39
    Chapter Master thrawn's Avatar
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaplainCharlie View Post
    Well, I think I did the math with Bolters and it should survive around 100 bolter rounds, so I would not call that exactly fragile. That's around the same toughness against bolters as a squad of Terminators, which incidentally cost a lot more...

    Against dedicated AA, it won't last long. But that just means that an Autarch is neccessary to help it out and maybe some Rangers and a Prism or two to take out the enemy AA before it arrives. Eldar have few units that we can just throw into the thick of things and expect them to be still there come our turn. The CH is no exception...
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  20. #40
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    Re: Eldar Crimson Hunter Tactics

    As in a unit that can be thrown into the thick of things? I would say probably not. You throw it in the middle of an enemy army, then they most likely can kill it with a combo of assault and firepower. Most armies should be able to kill it. Though I guess that could be said about most armies' units. If you can use some 1500+ points worth of units to target one unit, then that unit is most likely going to die...

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