I'm just wondering what everyone's theories of the page below, are.
I'm just wondering what everyone's theories of the page below, are.
Brother-Captain Optimus Metallus
Commander of the Ultramarines 3rd Battle Company
Master of the Arsenal
"The Scourge of the Xenos"
"We are the inheritors of Roboute. Let no rule be beyond us. Let no man stand in our way."
The earliest evidence of Genestealers or Pariahs? Something along those lines, it seems like a hybrid.
well, the great big skull is obviously a Necron. Given the number, variety and obvious umbilical/womb iconography below I'd say the figures in the circles represent the "young races". The theatrical mask in the top-right probably represents the Laughing God in the Webway. The segment next to him looks like it might represent a war, and the fragment depicts a new race (distinct and separate from the others) with some ray-like icons around it.
I think the tablet probably represents a prophecy of the Eldar, telling of a time when the Necrons will begin a new harvest of the "Young races" - Including the Eldar (who I believe to be the figure directly below the skull), and of a new hope enshrined in a race created separate from those young races - probably the Tau, although by some interpretations it could be humanity. No idea as to why the Laughing God's there, unless it's his plan, but I believe the figures below the young races are the Old Ones (Note the flame-like motif around them, and their direct connection to the Laughing God)
Not too complex, from that viewpoint, but there are other details that I haven't even begun going into (like the black spots next to the "new race" - perhaps they represent the Tau's psychic blankness?)
One of the figures in the circles looks suspiciously similar to a tyrannid.
You probably shouldn't post scanned material from GW's IP, I'm pretty sure its against forum rules. ( I could be wrong not trying to be an a$$ here just fyi)
In my opinion the tablet represents something about the old ones at the very bottom, the major races of the galaxy (is the circles) in the middle, and the Necrons and C'tan at the top. The little blurb they have in Xenology pretty much explains the story.
Ok you're a goon - what's a goon to a goblin?
The figures on the bottom are the most styalized; then there are various creatures in bubbles (the side drawing suggesting wombs) which could be the races the Old Ones created to fight the Necrons; then the skull reminicent of necrons; at the top appear to be three depictions, the left one is broken off, the middle looks scratched off, the one on the left looks like a laughing mask.
With these interpretations, it looks like the Old Ones at the bottom making vatious races to fight the Necrons in the middle. The Eldar at the top, being Harlequins on the left, Craftworlds on the right, and Dark Eldar scratched out because they were a dead end from the point of view of the tablet makers.
If the tablet was made by the Old ones they could see the Dark Eldar as a middle ground between the Craftworlds numbers and the Harlequins sparsity, although Harlequins are concidered between the DE and CE by our standards. (It was made by aliens supposedly, right.)
Just my interpretation though.
Last edited by Ardathair; 11-06-2006 at 03:17.
The Catling Sniper.
Craftworld Amaterasu
All our Wars are Merry. All our Dances are sad.
That is the only difference between Art and War.
I love stuff like this!
Forgive my patchy knowledge of the 40k ‘verse. But it seems to me what Charax said is a pretty good guess. The embryos in bubbles look like the races. I can defiantly make out an Orc… The figures at the bottom as the Old Ones make sense as well, and the “fire line/umbilical cord” things look to be connections. The mask and the spider’s web has to represent be Loec (is he called Cegorach now?). Do you think the scratched out diagram is Khaine? As in shattered and fragmented?
The final missing piece though, I don’t think it’s a race, its up at the top of the diagram with The Laughing god and the scratched out panel. Is it possible that it represents Ynnead?
“Who knows what horrors lurk beneath the Trapdoor?”
Well, Xenology pretty much explains everything else. What I'm wondering about is the fragment that was missing from the tablet, which is pictured at the top left. It looks like a human, so I'm wondering what that could mean.
Anyway, how it breaks down to is as follows:
1) The guys on the bottom are the Old Ones.
2) The babies above them are the races they created.
3) Then the Necrons come and there's a big war.
4) At the top we have the few surviving Old Ones, and Xenology pretty much implies that the Eldar gods are the Old Ones, and that the only survivors are the Laughing God and Kaela Mensha Khaine.
The human baby part was broken off, but as I said, there's a picture of it at the top, so what I'm wondering is if anyone knows what the deal with that is?
Brother-Captain Optimus Metallus
Commander of the Ultramarines 3rd Battle Company
Master of the Arsenal
"The Scourge of the Xenos"
"We are the inheritors of Roboute. Let no rule be beyond us. Let no man stand in our way."
Something being broken off does not mean it was purposefully removed. It could have been an accident. After all, the whole tablet does not look... complete. Like it was part of a larger object, especially the bottom left.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/busines...day/index.htmlOriginally Posted by massey
Yes, Games Workshop hates when people like their armies. I have it on good authority that Jervis Johnson keeps a list of people who buy things other than Space Marines, and he's planting car bombs outside their houses. They hate people who spend money on their plastic toys.
Well, as already mentioned, the first tier is almost certainly the old ones, the second tier is the races they created, the third tier is a necron face and probably refers to the war in heaven. After that it starts to get interesting and is open to debate.
I have an unusual interpretation of what it represents. The forth tier contains the two surviving Eldar gods; the Laughing God (a harlequin mask with a web background) and Khaine (a bloody hand which has been fragmented) which clearly shows that this tier represents events that have/are/will be occurring after the birth of Slaanesh.
These two gods are "caged" - something which I believe means they are trapped within the confines of the warp. The third figure, however, I believe, is the Emperor. Also, since the "cage" that He is within is open, I believe it represents the fact that He is not confined to just warp space and that His power extends over the physical realm as well.
Here's where my theory gets a bit contraversial, though. I believe the fifth and final tier, which has a picture of an embryo, represents the rebirth of the Emperor as the Star Child. I believe that this rebirth will result in the Emperor ascending to true godhood status and losing control of His powers. I believe that this will result in the destruction of the Imperium and quite possibly the galaxy in a similar way that occured following Slaanesh's birth - whether deliberately or not. The black circles on the fifth tier represent the dead planets. The fact that the birth of the Chaos gods is not represented suggests that the Emperors death/rebirth could have further reaching consequences that when they came into existence.
When i read the book i came to the conclusion that the baby was the rebirthing of the old ones (the creation of their descendants) and following on from them all the other races are created in their image (as is suggested in xenology) and considering it looks like a human baby it would suggest to me that we are the direct descendants of the old ones. In 'deus ex mechanicus' the deciever explains who he was surprised to see the childen of the old ones throughout the galaxy, and who is the greatest empire in the galaxy? Us the humans (not the largest, which would obviously be the orks)........
hhhmmmmmmm
Its crazy anothe that it might just work.I quess the devs have beenwatching stargate lately....
Ah, this thread and subject again. Generally it should be kept in consideration with the supporting text on the subject, both of which are about as useful as a an oven glove made of butter. In some ways it is reminiscent of an old RPG GMing technique, where you throw out lots of information and hope that it sounds more cohesive and intelligent than it is. (I've used it myself.)
The best thing about it is representing how difficult the interpretation of such artefacts can be in the real world and, further, how it generally requires either intimate knowledge of the subject matter (requiring more information than the background material would give you) or multiple references, which you aren't likely to get. Ah well, quelle surprise as they say.
Basically, to make sense of it you need to be the author, or someone that the author discussed it with. The textual descriptions of (?) "fires of creation" can equally be "rivers of time", "soul/energy transfer", etc., etc. Of course, if the interpreting Inquisitor just happened to get it right well, that's a bit deus es machina.
Anyway, the interpretation advocated thus far is pretty much standard. Progenitor race at the bottom (Old Ones?) linked to numerous races and/or worlds by "fires of creation"/whatever. (There are four prominent Progenitor figures that could be leaders or, merely just the ones at the front.) Two "fires of creation" are linked to the joker figure in a web (Laughing God in the Webway) and the broken fragment. The lines go through a Necron face, though the position between the information below and above can refer to dominance, a period of time, or whatever. Next to the harlequin-esque face, you've got a crossed out section, though I cannot remember the image behind it and the scan isn't that good. Some people interpret this to represent the Craftworld Eldar but, equally, you could say that it reflects Khaine (i.e. the fragmented god).
Anyway, the other plate is absent except in the drawn fragment, which shows the flexed "baby" figure (with attendant womb imagery). Stylistically this doesn't match up with the 'picture frame' approach in the main fragment, which is suspicious. Or it might just be bad drawing. Some say that this represents Ynnaed, others the Star Child. Then again, it could just represent nurture, birth or new cycles. Regardless, some people interpret the figure beneath that as the Emperor (noting the crook with "shepherd" overtones), though it could be anyone else (including Eldrad), or it might just be a stylised condom.
Again, though, that's the problem. It could mean practically anything and seems more there to fuel this type of discussion. Not that it can really go that far...
Charax's nice post gives a rather good representation of the process.
Seems reasonable. The elevated position could, however, mean a whole suite of things including, but not limited to, pre-eminence in the other creatures/worlds, conceptually the most important, the subject race (i.e. the ones that produced the incredibly "primitive" and stylised work), a master race, etc., etc.
And cannot be trusted since it is the interpretation of the Inquisitor in question, an individual that knows less about the 40k universe than we as the fans do!
Once again, though, note the stylistic differences between that and the other two rectilinear 'plates'. Further, the nature of the drawing can be argued to be suspicious.
Identification as specific races of Eldar are, of course, problematic. Then again, that might be giving the author more credence than he deserves. (I.e. It really might be that simple.)
It's as good as any interpretation.
Again, the explanation can be regarded as nothing better than an interpretation as good, or as bad, as we are doing now.
And human males look like human females in the womb, up to a point anyway. Even afterwards, differentiation between the two based upon their skeletons is problematic at best. What does this mean? Not a lot other than you cannot infer that it is human given the biological similarity between the various races.
That is an interpretation, and a suspicious one at that.
It's open to debate before that, though in context I would tend to agree with the simple interpretation. Fictional KISS in operation.
Ah well...
Kage
Heres another thing to think about, in relation especially to the top, center image that's been scratched out. The image is a clawed, bloody hand-which does suggest Khaine. But think about this. What could a clawed hand represent? Violence, power, bloodlust, bestial strength seem to be the ones that spring to mind for me. What race fits all of these? Orks. What race was created by the Old Ones to fight the Necrontyr? The Krork, which turned into the Orks later on when the Brainboyz vanished. Now, imagine this.
The "masque" represents Eldar, and Eldar alone. Webway, dark and light aspects, and the idea of "hiding behind masks"-rather appropriate for such a devious and tricksy race. They continue to fight the Necrons, and thus in some ways are still true to why the Old Ones created them. The Clawed Hand represents the Krork-simple, brutal and violent. But, since the Brainboyz vanished and the Krork effectivly "turned feral" into the Orks, and no longer fight the Necrons, and thus are no longer true to why the Old Ones created them. So, whoever found the tablet, presumably an Eldar, "removed" them from it to show that they are no longer able to be counted on as an ally.
Finally, the last segment, the embryo-representing, hope, potential, new life. Perhaps even nascent power? Could this represent humanity? It's said in the rulebook that psychic powers are the next stage in human evolution, and perhaps once this comes to light and if humans become psychicly stable creatures like Eldar, could they perhaps use their to fight the C'tan, to which the power of the warp is anethma? Perhaps the Old Ones placed a genetic key in the pre-human apes that would cause them to evolve into a race to fight the C'tan and Necrons if they themselves, with the Eldar and Krork, failed? And when the Deciever placed the "pariah gene" that causes psychicly blank humans he messed up the psychic-developement gene to make it more unstable and prone to mutation?
Of course, thats all speculation. Its more likely that the Masque represents the Laughing God, the Claw Khaine (scratched to represent his shattering at the hands of Slannesh) and the Embryo meaning Ynnead, the Eldar "god of the dead" that is supposed to be being formed in the warp.
Do YOU love Orks?
Every time someone says Dark Eldar need to be dropped or turned into Chaos Eldar, a little piece of me dies inside.
Apparently, I'm Warseer's Best Roleplayer. Go me. Have a poke about in the Roleplaying forum to see what I tricked people into thinking I'm good at.
I'm imagining that it wouldn't be too surprising for humanity to figure in there given the inherent humanocentrism in GW material.
Kage
Although I would love to read as much as others into the positioning of elements, designs et al on this 'artifact', I have come to the (perhaps cynical) conclusion that this is merely a drawing done by a GW artist.
His intentions were probably 'create an ancient, primitive-looking tablet that apparently symbolises certain events of the 40k history', not 'create an ancient, primitive-looking tablet which gives a detailed mythological appreciation of galactic events'.
So in effect, it doesn't mean anything.. GW fluff material seems ever more arbitrary these days.
The child is either that god the eldar are creating (unlikely in my opinion.. something in my head makes me think GW wouldn't represent an eldar god (even a foetal one) as an embryo) or the star child (notice the sun-design around him.. but then again, this would be equally irrelevant, what petinance does the star child have to the old ones? Besides clearing up the chaos mess..).
Essentially, I think the illustrator in question just thought 'I'll draw a picture of what might be the starchild.. that'll get 'em thinking'.
Last edited by my_name_is_tudor; 11-06-2006 at 16:24.
I am on Twitter.
Indeed, see my first post!
Kage
Just so you guys know, it's actually legal to reproduce parts of published work in small bits if it's not for profit. This is how reviewers can do things like show clips of movies or snatch excerpts from books.
Well, I put the picture in MS paint [because I suck] and drew over all the bits I could find in the crossed out bit that weren't crossed out and erased the rest.
It just looks like a load of lines... but if you connect the two spikes together, connect that line to that line, and then that line to that line, and then draw in the rest of that, and then draw a bit here and copy it over to the bit over there.
Well, it's a crap drawing, but you get the idea.
Hmm, a spikey skull with two little orbs by it, I'm stumped, what do you guys think?
Rabid Bunny 666 in the 41st millenium...
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