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Thread: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

  1. #41
    Librarian Tarrell's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    My emotions leading up to the end of ET and 9th release. ET: Nagash: Glottkin Khaine:cries: Horned Rat, Archaon
    Evil is a point of view. God kills indiscriminately and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are, none so like him as ourselves.
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  2. #42

    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    I think that most of 9th edition rumors are non sense at best, crazy wishlisting and fear mongering outlandish speculations. Why so ? Because…

    -Warhammer Fantasy Battle 9th edition will be a skirmish game. Yes why not. Except that would kill off one of the biggest “battle” game of their range. WFB at the moment is about fielding large armies, gathering en masse lots of soldiers, dozens of ranked units, warmachines and plenty of monsters. This does appeal to many people and currently there are not many competitors who offer games of that very kind : large battles. This statement, that is to say “it will be a skirmish game”, is all the more absurd considering that the game is currently about fielding many units, each one composed of dozens of miniatures. Going back to more “medium scaled” battles like 6th edition or even older editions, could happen, but skipping all the way to “10-20 miniatures each player” is something really different. What would players do with their 7000 points armies, sitting on their shelves ? They would only use at best one tenth of their models ?

    -There are already many skirmish games all around the market. In my opinion they’re almost filling it up, lately it has become a real trend: Malifaux, Hordes, Warmachines, Infinity, Dust Tactics, Relics… Well, if you want to play a skirmish game, there are already plenty of them. If you want to play large battles in fantasy settings, there are Kings of War and… Warhammer Fantasy Battle. It seems logical that they would not scupper their own niche, in which they are the leaders, would they ? Furthermore, Games Workshop do own a licensed game of skirmish. It is called “Mordheim”. Why would they turn WFB into Mordheim when they can use and sell both ? Why wouldn’t they simply update Mordheim, release massively new boxes, or even go for a new edition of it (they love doing new editions…), with new miniatures, shiny new rules, beautiful artworks… a brand new appealing product. All this while keeping WFB alive with new products from time to time. If players want to do some skirmish from time to time, they can have fun with Mordheim. If they want to have great battles with 3500 – 5000 points each like in the good old days, they can still play WFB and enjoy a couple of books, new rules and some miniature releases. Considering that Mordheim, as good as it may be, never had the aura and fame of WFB, why would one of their best product be swapped for a forgotten underdog (or at least to use its recipe)? Why would a company kill its “best”/oldest/ product to replace it with something not as famous and widely played? This does not make sense.

    -Some rumors go even further as to add that it will be a skirmish game which could easily be scaled, using the same ruleset, to do large and massive battles just like we used to in WFB 8th. Why not, except doing so would create a much schizophrenic game, so many rules loopholes and blunders and an even more complex community. Games Workshop, as much as I enjoy playing their games since I was 7, never had the best rules, or at least “perfect rules”. All their games sometimes sport clunky mecanics and weird rules. They are playable, they are funny, but some parts of the rule sets of GW games could be improved a lot. So it’s quite hard to figure out that GW would make a GOOD skirmish game that could work for 15 miniatures pitched again 12 others, as well as for a 4000 points “battleline”. GW is probably not ready for it, of if they think so, I don’t think they would be skillful enough to succeed. They did not always produce great games with great rules. Remember Inquisitor, remember the 7th edition and its infernal power creep… And how would the community adapt ? Tourneys on skirmish level or tourney on “scaled-up/battle” level ? It could become quite complicated to find players who want to play in the same scale.

    -This “skirmish” game would use round bases, because some cousin of a friend of a neighbour of Games Workshop’s secret bunker told me he heard that news. And we’ve seen two skaven thingies with round (oval to be precise) bases, so all of 9th edition models will be on round bases, just like 40K. Except again it does not make sense economicaly and rulewise. Why would GW tell its players, its faithful customers that now they all need to buy round bases for ALL of their WFB, and gosh, you know how much minis we have when we play WFB, don’t you? You’ve got an “elite army” of 3000 points ? Well, that may be about 50 – 150 footmen, some cavalry and a couple of warmachines, let us buy round bases for all of them ! You play a “horde” army ? Too bad, you will need to buy bases for you 300 skavens or 250 orcs and gobblins. And you will have to change bases on all of your former miniatures, all of them. I personaly would not do that change. It is too expensive, too long, too absurd. Why sell miniatures on square bases for more than twenty years and suddenly say “Oh ! Circular is better, I see the light now !” This would definitely alienate GW‘s customer base and fan base.

    -It is all the more non sensical that you can indeed play a skirmish game with square bases. Remember Confrontation ? Remember Mordheim ? Nothing prevents you from doing so and every good ruleset could use square bases without it disturbing the game. Now try with round bases… they are perfect for non ranked units, weird moving units and miniatures that are not meant to be in close combat or in contact with other miniatures : mangler squig, some warmachines which players like to put on round bases… Many skirmish games use round bases, they are as good as square ones. But when you hear the other rumor that says that the game could be played as a skirmish game AND a massive battle game, this does not work. Have you ever tried to do a ranked and closed formation with round bases? You cannot ! This is nerve-wracking ! Some smart rumors-mongers already have an answer: you would use round bases and use some movement trays with round slots and holes. Oh sure… So again, let us buy some material and accessories, let us buy round bases AND movement trays for round bases (not the old classical square ones we all have). After all, they did that with War of The Rings, didn’t they. This brings so many additional costs and efforts when none was needed (had they done a 9th edition with square bases) and severely alienates the players. Remember that War of the Rings was a big failure, partly because of its rules and partly because of the changes it had brought upon its ancestor, the Lord of the Rings. Players had bought many miniatures of orcs, elves and rohirims, and suddenly they couldn’t use them anymore for that game. Well, of course they could still play Lord of the Rings with their friends, but there were no more updates and books releases. So, no, square bases allow anyone to play skirmish AND large battle games whereas round bases only make it more complicated to play something else than skirmishes. 40K can do large battle because these are not ranked units but scattered “modern” formations.
    -Many armies will be squatted down, erased or merged together goes another rumor. Great ! Let’s add new armies to the game to later erase them into oblivion.

    -All old characters will die. New characters with newer models will survive whereas old characters with old miniatures will all be slain says another rumor. Except some brand new (lorewise and miniaturewise) character have been killed already during End Times and some really old models are still alive.

    -Most of the current range of miniatures will disappear. Why did they continually expand the range of models then? Each new book brought so many units, we bought them, painted them, liked them and used them during our battles and now, according to this rumor we woul no longer be able to use some (if not most) of them?

    -Warhammer will now take place into “bubbles of reality”. Farewell “Old World”, it has exploded, scatterred and was utterly destroyed in the most awful and apocaliptyc manner, and now what remains of the world are small “bubbles”, small parts of time and place that drift through space, says the rumor. Factions and survivors are trapped inside of these bubbles and when two of them collide, their realities mix and their occupants have to fight. This is roughly what some rumors have been telling us about the background of Warhammer in 9th. Although I have never been a fan of the usual background, this is much lazier writing than what they used to do. I’d rather have all the clichés (so many clichés I think the incarnate of clichés will rise and kill both Archaon and Nagash), so many pseudo plagiarism and hardly developped ideas which were “borrowed” somewhere else, so many everlasting heroes who can’t be harmed until the time has come (Gotrek and almost all of the warhammer characters up to the End Times), thirty years of almost unchanging background, eternal status quo and so called “ever dangerous world of war, plagues, magical storms, chaotic corruption and treachery”. Warhammer’s background has never been great litterature, we knew who will die, who will survive and wars were predictable, at best, but the “boom, everything explodes, everyone dies in the most bombastic and outlandish events and absurd wars ever told and what remains of the earth is a nexus of dreamlike alternate realities where people come and go” is even more boring. It sounds like some Magic the Gathering “Time Spiral” storyline… That's quite personal, but I think it's neither original nor really interesting.

    -Lastly I would say that people hate change, that's been proved. Most of us are naturally wary of it.

    So let us summarise everything so far. The 9th edition would dramatically change its setting and background by killing off 99% of its main and secondary characters and most of each race and faction. The whole physical world as we know it would be destroyed and everything would now take place in a different plane. Many of the current miniatures would no longer be sold and no longer be usable: what use would be a pack of 50 clan rats, 3 war machines and 2 dragons, in a skirmish, small scale, game? Do you even bring canons and catapults to a skirmish? So rules would change (to what extent, we don’t really know, but we are not talking about a copy or slight evolution of 8th edition), miniatures would be outdated, useless or used in such a different way (owning three different “3000 points” armies and being able to only use a dozen of miniatures out of each) and all of them would need new bases. Players, fans of the background, painters and customers alike would all be strongly alienated by all of these sudden changes. Some may be good. Some may be necessary or interesting, fully thought changes which would make the game evolve in a good way. But some also seem to be silly or really stupid, some changes would make us waste money or make our big armies pointless, some would make us waste even more money on new bases and new special movement trays. Some changes would make GW get rid of half of its catalogue, erasing armies, getting rid of many models and miniatures, merging armies together. This is a marketting and financial suicide. How would they tell a player “Too bad you’ve chosen to collect lizardmen ten years ago, your army is now useless. What a shame, poor chap, that you’ve started to buy lots of Bretonians lately, this army won’t be in 9th edition at all. Same for dwarves, yeah we’re erasing two quite popular armies and some others (ogres, lizardmen) no one cares about” So if some of these rumors happen to be true, GW has made some mistakes. What sould sellers and shops of miniature think of it?

    So many things in these rumors are about radical changes and many of them seem to have been badly designed or hardly thought about. 6th edition ? Let’s introduce Ogres and make Tomb Kings an army of their own, let’s split chaos into three armies. 7th edition, let’s create new units for each races. 8th edition, let’s create even more new units and add them to the game: High Elves for instance in 8th edition have 5 more lords and heroes choices and 5 more unit choices than they used to have back in 6th edition. 9th edition ? Let us mix armies together, put chaos back into one army, erase factions and most of all reduce the number of units they would have. Armies got bigger and bigger with 8th edition, players buying and painting more minis, fielding more units and biggers ranks and file with “hordes” ? 9th edition will be about skirmishes ! It seems to me, if these rumors were true, that GW has no foresight at all. One step further, two steps back…

    Oh and let us remember that most of these are merely rumors so far, not fact. Two weeks ago someone was shouting “starter box will be Empire vs Orcs”, now it’s “Chaos vs “Humans””, and tomorrow it may be “Fimirs vs Squigs”…
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  3. #43

    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    I'm ok with the rumors, I just hope that even though Bretonnia won't be it's own book, I hope that there's still bretionia themed units. For example, black templars got combined but they still kept there troops choice.
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  4. #44
    Chapter Master Ludaman's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by full_blooded_ork View Post
    I'm ok with the rumors, I just hope that even though Bretonnia won't be it's own book, I hope that there's still bretionia themed units. For example, black templars got combined but they still kept there troops choice.
    I honestly don't see much of the empire or bretonnia surviving beyond a few icons on not-space-marine shields.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    If they get rid of Chaos's northern barbarian theme I'm done.
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  6. #46
    Chapter Master Valaraukar's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludaman View Post
    I honestly don't see much of the empire or bretonnia surviving beyond a few icons on not-space-marine shields.
    ET:Thanquol does specifically mention imperial scholars looking back on this time in the first few pages so I hold out some hope.

    That said there's no guarantee that translates to any of the existing military remaining if the 'new humans' become the defenders of the human populace.
    To paraphrase Harry: 8th edition and Storm of Magic - BRING IT ON!
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  7. #47
    Librarian Lord Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Ok. I know it's been mentioned before but I have a couple speculative ideas and would like some constructive feedback.

    1. Lizardmen in both settings. Ok now, hear me out. Wouldn't it be to GW's favor to have more armies that can cross over into both Fantasy and 40k? How viable could Lizards be in the 40k universe? They obviously have "alien" technology and lots of magic regardless of their primitive life style. Updates needed but surely they could be the alien race against Nids. Plus if this round bases thing is true.....

    2. What if GW doesn't stop the timeline for Fantasy and keeps moving it? Rumours suggest Lizardmen available but not fully supported. But what if that's just for the immediate future? If GW keeps moving the timeline thus needing and creating new limited time units as rumoured, any army that has been "squatted" or dormant could reemerge. Lizardmen off in space during End Times and watch from above regrouping and planning out their new objective... finally decide to take action post 9th.

    This would not only create immediate demand for new models but competitors would have very little time to react as the setting constantly shifts.

    Sorry if it seems like rambling, but I had time to think about things while at work tonight.

    - Lord Cedric
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  8. #48

    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cedric View Post
    Ok. I know it's been mentioned before but I have a couple speculative ideas and would like some constructive feedback.

    1. Lizardmen in both settings. Ok now, hear me out. Wouldn't it be to GW's favor to have more armies that can cross over into both Fantasy and 40k? How viable could Lizards be in the 40k universe? They obviously have "alien" technology and lots of magic regardless of their primitive life style. Updates needed but surely they could be the alien race against Nids. Plus if this round bases thing is true.....

    2. What if GW doesn't stop the timeline for Fantasy and keeps moving it? Rumours suggest Lizardmen available but not fully supported. But what if that's just for the immediate future? If GW keeps moving the timeline thus needing and creating new limited time units as rumoured, any army that has been "squatted" or dormant could reemerge. Lizardmen off in space during End Times and watch from above regrouping and planning out their new objective... finally decide to take action post 9th.

    This would not only create immediate demand for new models but competitors would have very little time to react as the setting constantly shifts.

    Sorry if it seems like rambling, but I had time to think about things while at work tonight.

    - Lord Cedric
    1. Nowhere near the worst idea I've seen a sentient reptilian race would actually be far more likely to survive/thrive on their own planet although the culture and intelligence of base units would need to be advanced. Unfortunately can't see GW going with this I mean they can't even be bothered to do a Sororita Codex

    2. Sounds much more likely and if there's a dropoff in sales after 9th due to mass nerdrage GW are not above pulling a stunt like this to lure people back in.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cedric View Post
    1. Lizardmen in both settings. Ok now, hear me out. Wouldn't it be to GW's favor to have more armies that can cross over into both Fantasy and 40k? How viable could Lizards be in the 40k universe? They obviously have "alien" technology and lots of magic regardless of their primitive life style. Updates needed but surely they could be the alien race against Nids. Plus if this round bases thing is true.....
    If they would redesign models then maybe but biggest issue is that CC armies aren't that viable in current 40k ultra competive meta. Might not sell that well. Daemons need bloody lot of weird stuff to make it work. Guess slanns could be powerful psykers but where they would get good fast tank busters?

    Saurus would be pretty lousy unit in 40k.
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  10. #50
    Chapter Master Malagor's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Skinks of course
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  11. #51
    Chapter Master duffybear1988's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender Shadowkin View Post
    yeah, but he was pretty wrong about Van Horstman...( so far), and has been absent ever since Archeon pics have come out ...,
    I never said Van Horstman/chaos dragon kit would come out during End Times, which was why I posted it in the 9th edition rumour thread and not the Archeon one. I've been absent from the Archeon thread because to be honest, I don't know any rumours about that particular release.
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  12. #52

    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    I just heard they are changing the setting and Warhammer goes into dark steampunk style - that would fit the whole "300 years later" thing. And another thing is this - big kits, steamtanks and variations (chaos engines, elvish magic constructs) are to be centerpieces and fill in the same role as in 40k. It could be complete ******** of course but it DOES looks promising. Anybody remembers Flintlock system?
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  13. #53
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by leonates1980 View Post
    I just heard they are changing the setting and Warhammer goes into dark steampunk style - that would fit the whole "300 years later" thing. And another thing is this - big kits, steamtanks and variations (chaos engines, elvish magic constructs) are to be centerpieces and fill in the same role as in 40k. It could be complete ******** of course but it DOES looks promising.
    No it looks like Warmachine. And if I wanted to play Warmachine I would play Warmachine. I really hope they keep the tech low with the exception of a few Empire/Dwarf legacy units and Skaven.
    Last edited by Gobskrag 'Eadbasha; 13-02-2015 at 13:15.
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  14. #54
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by leonates1980 View Post
    I just heard they are changing the setting and Warhammer goes into dark steampunk style - that would fit the whole "300 years later" thing. And another thing is this - big kits, steamtanks and variations (chaos engines, elvish magic constructs) are to be centerpieces and fill in the same role as in 40k. It could be complete ******** of course but it DOES looks promising. Anybody remembers Flintlock system?
    Yeah this would probably be the end for me as well. Sadly I stepped back into table top gaming in late 2013 after being away for a decade. I look at what was available in my area and decided to get back into Warhammer fantasy, because it wasn't steam punk and wasn't a Skirmish game.
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  15. #55
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gobskrag 'Eadbasha View Post
    No it looks like Warmachine. And if I wanted to play Warmachine I would play Warmachine. I really hope they keep the tech low with the exception of a few Empire/Dwarf legacy units and Skaven.
    This.

    As a Wamahordes player, if warhammer went totally steam punk then I can't see myself ever getting back into it unless the rule set they come out with is totally clean, unambiguous and somehow "more amazing in it amazingness" than WM/H

    Warhammer is "meant" to he high fantasy in its setting.

    TBH, regardless of my opinions and thoughts on GW, EoT was a bold step forward in terms of developing the almost static timeline of WHF. This rumoured complete destruction if the world makes no sense. Its a world everybody understands. And the concept of bubbles of time and space with fantasy marines seeping through the warp is the sort of story a 10 year old would produce.
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  16. #56
    Modinator Lord Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by duffybear1988 View Post
    I never said Van Horstman/chaos dragon kit would come out during End Times, which was why I posted it in the 9th edition rumour thread and not the Archeon one. I've been absent from the Archeon thread because to be honest, I don't know any rumours about that particular release.
    I missed that tidbit. I'll move that rumor over to the End Times roundup.
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  17. #57
    Chapter Master static grass's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cedric View Post
    Ok. I know it's been mentioned before but I have a couple speculative ideas and would like some constructive feedback.

    1. Lizardmen in both settings. Ok now, hear me out. Wouldn't it be to GW's favor to have more armies that can cross over into both Fantasy and 40k? How viable could Lizards be in the 40k universe? They obviously have "alien" technology and lots of magic regardless of their primitive life style. Updates needed but surely they could be the alien race against Nids. Plus if this round bases thing is true.....

    - Lord Cedric
    I think moving Lizardmen to 40k is a less crazy idea than I first thought. We already have the concept of the old ones so it's not hard to see it happening. It would open up some interesting ideas to explore. Now that the Necrons seem have charged their batteries what's to say that the old ones won't return too? Presumably the Eldar will have a lot of explaining to do. The eye of terror wasn't there when the old ones left
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  18. #58
    Chapter Master popisdead's Avatar
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    I'm confused that "chaos gods would stay" coupled with "ip protection " in that one dakka Dakka comment when Brian Ansell has public ally stated two are copies of Nergal and Crom.
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  19. #59
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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    Chaos itself was wholly ripped from Moorcock, was it not? Even down to the symbol?
    "the one thing I can't quite get past is that the wrathmongers, there's just a part of them that reminds me of a sunburned farmer in metal overalls going out to thresh some wheat on a PCP rage." rotbeard

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    Re: Warhammer 9th Edition Roundup - Discussion

    I've seen several posts about WF going steampunk. That would put them quickly into litigation with PrivateerPress. If G-Dub is so about IP then the last thing they are going to do is copy someone else...... again(Tolkien)lol.

    Just like all the comments about round bases and skirmish. If they change the game from rank and file to skirmish, I wouldn't be surprised if that landed them in litigation because it again it would be too similiar to other existing games. If they try and have it mirror 40K that is equally ignorant having 2 games that are the same, just named different.

    Whatever G-Dub does it most likely will be ALL theirs.
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