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Thread: Warmahordes mkIII

  1. #21
    Commander veterannoob's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    No idea what it might even be. From the podcast design challenges they mentioned only thing I can think of is an elemental type faction. Excited to see what it is though.

  2. #22
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Charistoph View Post
    They do talk about it in the primecast but more to tease it for L&L 2017. So it IS coming, but what/who/where is still just as much to debate as it was before. From the what they said, I go the feeling that it will be as different for Hordes as Convergence is for Warmachine. So, we'll see.
    Yes, well. Convergence may well lose their special snowflake rules, at least as focus allocation goes. Every jack in a battlegroup gets first focus free now, so having them transfer as well seems a bit much.
    In retrospect, Convergence just looks like a test bed for improving 'jacks in mk3

    Whatever the 5th faction is, I hope it fits into the setting, and isn't just yanked out of a rearwards passage. And by the setting, I specifically mean the Iron Kingdoms area- I don't want to see Zu or something else that barely interacts with 90% of the existing factions.
    Personally, I still expect Infernals, for a lot of story reasons. Though I hope they redesign the look of the standard infernal types.
    Last edited by Voss; 12-04-2016 at 19:46.
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  3. #23
    Chapter Master Charistoph's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Yes, well. Convergence may well lose their special snowflake rules, at least as focus allocation goes. Every jack in a battlegroup gets first focus free now, so having them transfer as well seems a bit much.
    In retrospect, Convergence just looks like a test bed for improving 'jacks in mk3
    And we may see Focus load change as well so that Jacks can hold more, with certain actions requiring higher levels of Focus to be performed. This would still allow for the Convergence's unique mechanic to continue as well.

    In the end, I was speaking more to just how much different the Convergence's mechanic is compared to the others. But hey, a lot can change in a year. They may find an easier way to do it so it isn't as strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Whatever the 5th faction is, I hope it fits into the setting, and isn't just yanked out of a rearwards passage. And by the setting, I specifically mean the Iron Kingdoms area- I don't want to see Zu or something else that barely interacts with 90% of the existing factions.
    Personally, I still expect Infernals, for a lot of story reasons. Though I hope they redesign the look of the standard infernal types.
    They have said there will be no Infernals or Orgoth, but that doesn't mean that Zu doesn't have their own races which use Infernals, but Elementals as veterannoob suggests could be the case as well.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Charistoph View Post
    They have said there will be no Infernals or Orgoth, but that doesn't mean that Zu doesn't have their own races which use Infernals, but Elementals as veterannoob suggests could be the case as well.
    You sure? I've been eyeing the 5th hordes faction thread on their boards, which has gotten some dev responses. PP_Simon has flatly rejected Orgoth, but remained silent on a post positing Infernals.
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  5. #25
    Chapter Master Charistoph's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    You sure? I've been eyeing the 5th hordes faction thread on their boards, which has gotten some dev responses. PP_Simon has flatly rejected Orgoth, but remained silent on a post positing Infernals.
    People have mentioned it from previous interviews and such, not from there. I don't know which one, though.

  6. #26
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Yes, well. Convergence may well lose their special snowflake rules, at least as focus allocation goes. Every jack in a battlegroup gets first focus free now, so having them transfer as well seems a bit much.
    In retrospect, Convergence just looks like a test bed for improving 'jacks in mk3

    Whatever the 5th faction is, I hope it fits into the setting, and isn't just yanked out of a rearwards passage. And by the setting, I specifically mean the Iron Kingdoms area- I don't want to see Zu or something else that barely interacts with 90% of the existing factions.
    Personally, I still expect Infernals, for a lot of story reasons. Though I hope they redesign the look of the standard infernal types.
    Even if they do Zu, the 2-year gap allows them to advance the story in such a way that the regular factions can have a presence there. Or Zu can have presence in Western Immoren. As it is, several factions are quite separated geographically - think Skorne vs Cryx/Khador and some have little reason for conflict - the Retribution really should not care about the divine casters of the Protectorate. But Wm/H as a game is about small group combat of less than 50 soldiers, usually, so they manage to get some plausible conflict areas in.

    I think CoC will keep Induction. It will be weakened by the Power Up rules anyway, as the first Focus a warjack gets is a lot more important than the second. If they lose it, they need some other edge to compensate. Their fearless Construct troops also lose a lot if psychology is tuned down or removed, so they will need something. Besides the Prime Conflux...

  7. #27
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    There's new information coming today.

    Yesterday we found out that tournaments will be able to be 2 or 3 lists which will please the UK community a lot. 75 is the new 50 level with the boost in jack/beast points on casters taken into account.

  8. #28
    Chapter Master ashc's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Also this. Changes to balance Warcasters vs. Warlocks.

    http://privateerpress.com/community/...der-04-13-2016

    Oh, and Hi! - I was lurking.
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  9. #29
    Chapter Master Malagor's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Interesting.
    I must say that the change to the fury mechanic is most welcome.
    That Warlocks gets weaker the longer the game goes on and yet Warcasters gets more powerful was a odd one and nice that they are leveling the playing field there as well.

  10. #30
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Funny. After years of denial that the disparity was even a thing, suddenly it is 'oh, yeah. That was totally a problem.'

    I'm waiting with bated breath for the Hunter spam lists. Free boosted AP damage rolls forever.
    And the sad Khador lists that still have only 1-3 jacks, and don't benefit nearly so much from 1 focus per jack.
    This really favors jacks that are already focus efficient, and heavily disincentivizes pricey jacks that need a lot of love.


    Edit: Huh. They're randomly releasing info on their forums in various threads. The Insider missed a few things, add by Soles in the discussion thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Soles
    I just wanted to jump in here because I feel like I should have addressed these questions in my Insider. My apologies for neglecting to explain the changes to monstrosities and vectors. Not being warjacks, Cephalyx monstrosities do not benefit from Power Up. Instead, a monstrosity gains 1 focus point each time it suffers damage as a result of a continuous effect or from an attack (whether made by a friendly model or an enemy). And instead of having these focus points removed during the Maintenance Phase, monstrosities retain their focus points until they have been spent.

    Given that they're living models, and anatomical precision is all over the place in cephalyx, keeping the monstrosities topped off at minimal cost should be really easy.

    Likewise, Power Up does not affect the vectors of the Convergence of Cyriss (which are actually considered warjacks in the new edition, albeit warjacks without a cortex). Instead they rely on Focus Induction to keep the focus flowing. Focus Induction now simply states: “When a Convergence warjack spends a focus point during its activation, you can give a focus point to another Convergence warjack if the two are in the same battlegroup and are within 6˝ of one another.” That’s it. So, one warjack can spend all of its focus to fill up the next warjack and so on until the same 3 focus points have flowed through every warjack in your battlegroup.'
    So... no up front bonuses, but you can theoretically fuel the whole battlegroup with three focus. But you better do it right, and make sure you're really precise in how far apart they are and when they spend focus.
    Last edited by Voss; 14-04-2016 at 02:08.
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  11. #31
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    So... no up front bonuses, but you can theoretically fuel the whole battlegroup with three focus. But you better do it right, and make sure you're really precise in how far apart they are and when they spend focus.
    I like that quirk in the faction, it makes them a very tricky yet very powerful faction to use IF you can master them.

    It kinda makes them an advanced level faction to use and I imagine very rewarding to play well.
    Once I am comfortable with my current armies in the new game I want to do a Clockwork angel and heavy Jack Convergence army.

  12. #32
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    I've only been playing for something like 6 months, so I'm a bit nervous about the edition shift, but at the same time I haven't bought very much from a models/books point of view so I have no concerns there, and some of the announcements are really interesting. I like some of the quirkier Cygnar 'casters, so hopefully they'll either get direct boosts to playability with new rules, or there are smaller-but-significant changes to the game as a whole that benefit them and they remain relatively unchanged (example: Nemo3 gives 1 extra focus to a model when he allocates + and all 'jacks get 1 Focus for activating in control range = a lot of smash. You can already do it with Stormclads and Stormblade Infantry, but being able to to basically the same thing with and 'jack and any unit opens up a lot of possibilities). The changes to points will hopefully mean that there's less disparity of the 3-point Solo range - for example, the Trench Buster (which I think is amazing as it is, but many others disagree) would be stupid-good at 2 points, but isn't quite as good as Acosta or Phyrrus or other true power-houses at 3 points. If PP were to bump the latter two up to 6 points, the Trench Buster to 5 points and the other 2-point solos to 4 points gives a better gradient of abilities/cost.
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  13. #33
    Commander veterannoob's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by aprilmanha View Post
    I like that quirk in the faction, it makes them a very tricky yet very powerful faction to use IF you can master them.

    It kinda makes them an advanced level faction to use and I imagine very rewarding to play well.
    Once I am comfortable with my current armies in the new game I want to do a Clockwork angel and heavy Jack Convergence army.
    I'm with two of the locals who hope this makes Convergence fun to play with and more importantly, against. They look so cool, but man are all my games save one tournament game just a snooze.

  14. #34
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Convergence will according to Soles not get Power Up. Instead, ALL focus a CoC vector spends is inducted, so if you space well 3 FOC can carry all the way through the battlgroup.

    Monstrosities (Cephalyx Mercenary biological "warjacks") will keep all allocated focus from turn to turn. Also, they will gain 1 FOC whenever they suffer damage.

    Jack Marshals also give their 'jacks Power Up.

    http://privateerpressforums.com/show...t=#post3467523

    So, there is going to be a focus-rich environment out there! CoC ranged battlegroups will have it real easy, whereas charging vectors might have more trouble getting their FOC inducted around. But it will be beautiful overall. The Corollary also is still going to be "an essential part" of CoC vector play.

  15. #35
    Chapter Master Charistoph's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Being Focus-starved is one of the reasons why Warjacks were not as common in a list as many people would like. This had to be addressed, especially if Warcasters can bring almost 3 times as much Warjack Points as they could before.
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  16. #36
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptajn_Congoboy View Post

    Jack Marshals also give their 'jacks Power Up.
    .
    That isn't stated (at least not there). Journeymen also give their jacks powerup, not Marshals. Which seemed obvious, but needed to be stated since journeymen technically aren't warcasters, but solos with a package of abilities that mimic warcasters.
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  17. #37
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Blah. In response to a question about the massive casualties check in addition to the removal of fear/terror.
    Quote Originally Posted by PPS_MrSoles
    They are not. No version of fleeing remains as a concept in the game.
    Bah. I hate the removal of psychology from wargames. As his buddies are flayed alive, melted in acid and torn apart, Trooper #3 is just fine. Yeah, right.
    Last edited by Voss; 16-04-2016 at 04:37.
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  18. #38
    Chapter Master Treadhead_1st's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Blah. In response to a question about the massive casualties check in addition to the removal of fear/terror.


    Bah. I hate the removal of psychology from wargames. As his buddies are flayed alive, melted in acid and torn apart, Trooper #3 is just fine. Yeah, right.
    At the same time, as a relative newcomer to the game I have felt that "fleeing" in Warmahordes has been badly handled. "Cowering" would be a better term than "fleeing" when there's no requirement to actually move. It is also a mechanic that many people felt was too random for the penalties it brought, effectively sacrificing the activation of the unit, whilst the generally high CMD stats and presence of Commanders with no penalties/debuffs meant that it rarely came up - but it was devastating when it did.

    Bear in mind that none of the statements (that I've seen) indicate that psychology or fear/terror style mechanics won't will remain with different penalties - I could see an Abomination model charging a unit automatically imposing a RAT/MAT/Attack Roll debuff, for example.
    Last edited by Treadhead_1st; 16-04-2016 at 13:04.
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  19. #39
    Chapter Master Avian's Avatar
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    The fleeing rules, especially regarding how fleeing units could move, were my single most despised part of the rules. Personally I would have preferred that fleeing units instead got a penalty to attack and damage rolls, and couldn't be given orders.
    As a long-time Goblin player, I can reliably inform you that failure is ALWAYS an option.

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  20. #40
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    Re: Warmahordes mkIII

    Oh, yeah. I won't deny the way they handled it was poorly. But 'solving' it by removing the mechanic entirely is nonsense.

    There are a couple areas of the rules that I wouldn't mind see excised for being effectively worthless (pushes and weapon locks come to mind), but there are areas that need revision (the two pages of throw rules) not just an axe. Psychology was one of those.
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