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Thread: Will WFB ever come back?

  1. #61
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    22yrs is hardly beginner haha.
    I just didn't like how the system worked and rewarded power gaming while punishing theme gaming. That much was obvious reading the rules. So no I'm not sorry to see it go at all. It had no encouragement value.
    Only thing stopping me from AoS is possible move to new place, not yet member of a club, no interest in playing in a GW store and funds need to support proper wargames for the time being

  2. #62
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karak Norn Clansman View Post
    The Old World Warhammer will probably come back in due time, but the massed rank fantasy wargame we knew might not return. Poor seller. Time will tell.

    There's at any rate too much following of GW's Warhammer fantasy IP to throw it out of the window in the long run. PC titles like Vermintide and Total Warhammer tells you why. There is money to be had at the very least in skirmish games, Warmaster and whatnot set in the Warhammer world. Especially as AoS continues to distinguish itself in the magitech fantasy niche, leaving the Tolkienish-Warhammer fantasy niche open for Warhammer proper to return.

    Retcons happen. The End Times was a false alarm.
    I can live without a return of a ranks and flanks game (still like and play 8th anyway and can always play KoW/ 9th or whatever) but this whole AoS episode has made me realise its all about the setting for me . Ive played a fair few different games in the last year or so and its been the setting over the gameplay thats pulled me in , Malifaux , Batman ,Guildball for example have all stuck , Infinity is a good example of a game that didnt , top game rules-wise but the setting didnt appeal .

    So anything AoS is doomed in my house , whereas (almost) anything WFB is guarenteed a place on my shelves , because ones setting is excellent and one is .... not so great

  3. #63

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Life Form View Post
    Of course if your only experience with the game is being roflstomped it will be frustrating, but it is your own fault for quitting early. You can't pick up chess and expect to be a grandmaster tomorrow. Unfortunately this seems to be the expectation of gamers these days, to get everything served on a silver platter. However that's not what everyone wants. Some people want to actually work for their victories so they feel like an actual achievement. So with all due respect, get your AoS the heck out of here.
    Actually, knowing why you lost is not an unreasonable expectation - expecting people to take years to learn rules (that constantly change) is.

    I am a terrible chess player. I don't mind losing because I can see what I did wrong.

    What you're talking about is simply not knowing the sprawling rulebook well enough to figure out what the heck is happening. Who needs that?

    To me a valid question is whether they will nickel-and-dime AOS to death just like they've done with every other game. Can't have it simple! Must get the latest supplement!

    And then they'll need special rules for ever-bigger games (because they make money on figures, don't you know).

    So maybe it will come full circle.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  4. #64

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    I am guy that joined with the Total War: Warhammer train. I really like the setting and working towards to get a game set up with my family. I already infected my sister ( she wants to play Skaven :P ). I am so enthusiatic about the setting that I will make my first ever tabletop top skirmish game aswell, which was inspired by Mordheim, City of the Damned and Vermintide.

  5. #65

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    Actually, knowing why you lost is not an unreasonable expectation - expecting people to take years to learn rules (that constantly change) is.
    You're absolutely right of course. If it sounds like I'm a fanboy with rose-tinted glasses then let me assure you that nothing could be further from the truth. The flaws in the game have always been glaringly obvious to me, and were rather off-putting to say the least. I already struggled to keep up with the game back in 7th Edition and when they started pumping out army books like mad in 8th Edition I was close to giving up on the game completely.

    However what people don't seem to get is that courtesy of GW the rules aren't changing anymore. That means now is actually the best time to play the game. I have already noticed my performance improving simply from knowing what stuff does, without having to triple-check a library of books.

    In the end I am of the mind that GW had a very solid basis with WHFB, not least because they successfully managed to build it over the span of several decades, and the IP was strong enough to keep me attached to the game despite it being rather mediocre for much of my experience. However it seems with the new millennium things changed considerably, and GW now seems to have developed a "black thumb" as everything they touch seems to die sooner or later. WHFB went into a slow decline, 40k isn't what it used to be and Warhammer Online, which once stepped up to dethrone WoW (!!!) was silently carried to its grave when they shut down the last server with its remaining population of 5000 players or so only a few years later.

    In fact every product put out by GW, no matter the medium, seems to exude a trademark aura of half-assedness, sloppiness, and, especially, greed that becomes instantly recognizable. I have come to consider this the hallmark of the company, and it's nothing to be proud of. I have no doubt (in fact it was demonstrated thoroughly) that AoS is following the exact same path, and it is nothing I want to be part of.

  6. #66
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Life Form View Post
    You're absolutely right of course. If it sounds like I'm a fanboy with rose-tinted glasses then let me assure you that nothing could be further from the truth. The flaws in the game have always been glaringly obvious to me, and were rather off-putting to say the least. I already struggled to keep up with the game back in 7th Edition and when they started pumping out army books like mad in 8th Edition I was close to giving up on the game completely.

    However what people don't seem to get is that courtesy of GW the rules aren't changing anymore. That means now is actually the best time to play the game. I have already noticed my performance improving simply from knowing what stuff does, without having to triple-check a library of books.

    In the end I am of the mind that GW had a very solid basis with WHFB, not least because they successfully managed to build it over the span of several decades, and the IP was strong enough to keep me attached to the game despite it being rather mediocre for much of my experience. However it seems with the new millennium things changed considerably, and GW now seems to have developed a "black thumb" as everything they touch seems to die sooner or later. WHFB went into a slow decline, 40k isn't what it used to be and Warhammer Online, which once stepped up to dethrone WoW (!!!) was silently carried to its grave when they shut down the last server with its remaining population of 5000 players or so only a few years later.

    In fact every product put out by GW, no matter the medium, seems to exude a trademark aura of half-assedness, sloppiness, and, especially, greed that becomes instantly recognizable. I have come to consider this the hallmark of the company, and it's nothing to be proud of. I have no doubt (in fact it was demonstrated thoroughly) that AoS is following the exact same path, and it is nothing I want to be part of.
    Well said. They even didn't bother to kill of WFB in style by releasing updated Bretonnia and Skaven before, or even during, End Times.
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  7. #67
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesvalentine View Post
    22yrs is hardly beginner haha.
    I just didn't like how the system worked and rewarded power gaming while punishing theme gaming.
    Sorry but that's a rather stupid thing to say. Power gaming is playing whatever yields you the most in-game benefit. So if a certain theme has an in-game advance power games will just follow that template (at the expense of less powerful themes).

    There's plenty of power gaming in AoS, the GHB made sure of that.

  8. #68

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Life Form View Post
    However what people don't seem to get is that courtesy of GW the rules aren't changing anymore. That means now is actually the best time to play the game. .
    Yes, but which version is authoritative?

    In 40k, there's a nice bright line: 2nd vs what came after.

    Where's the line in WHFB? Is it 8th? Was that the definitive edition, or merely the one where GW finally ran out of gas?
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  9. #69
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    Yes, but which version is authoritative?
    The one you like the most

    For me it was a toss-up between 6th and 8th (started in 4th, but didn't really pay much attention to the rules back then there was just me and my small RPG group), and eventually the mass-battle aesthetic of 8th won, then on to 9th age which polished much of what was wrong with 8th (and then broke other stuff, but overall it's still an improvement).

  10. #70
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    Yes, but which version is authoritative?

    In 40k, there's a nice bright line: 2nd vs what came after.

    Where's the line in WHFB? Is it 8th? Was that the definitive edition, or merely the one where GW finally ran out of gas?
    The version you play and agree upon with friends. I doubt it will differ much from before, what changed is the pressure to update.

    There have always been house rules to fill gaps.

    For me it is T9A. It fits my collection, the basics are familiar, the community effort invested is huge and it is available in downloadable format. It is going through a wild development process, that is fine, it will settle down eventually. It is all the work needed to get that nice bright line.
    KOW is a very good alternative from what I hear. Already pretty much settled and well written rules. And there are many other Warhammer based projects out there.
    I have the books to play 4th to 8th anytime I want, but all those old GW WHFB versions are incomplete. You will run into missing army books and and even whole armies. Let's face it, the setting was great but the official rule support sucked. I also have 3rd edition, it is a different game.

    On topic of this thread. With current and future rule sets far better than what we had, it will be impossible to launch a nostalgia product range by GW. The world and product range were vast(AoS new stuff clearly shows current WHFB product will fade out fast), investment to relaunch is too high. WHFB is not a game they can relaunch with limited effort.
    The only thing that can survive is the setting. Warhammer Total War will keep it alive for a few years. That is not GW supporting it in any way at all, to them it is more like a last cash in. Once that goes silent, the only thing they can do is to produce miniatures others need for their rule sets. GW wants to sell armies, they will never go there. The company is too big and bloated for them to adapt fast enough.
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  11. #71
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Joe View Post

    On topic of this thread. With current and future rule sets far better than what we had, it will be impossible to launch a nostalgia product range by GW. The world and product range were vast(AoS new stuff clearly shows current WHFB product will fade out fast), investment to relaunch is too high. WHFB is not a game they can relaunch with limited effort.
    Not relaunch per se, but it clearly seems GW is not above releasing old minis like the limited run of old minis or the slightly resculpted slambo.

    From a rules PoV, yes I'm pretty sure they'd rather revisit warmaster than re-release a ranked mass battle system.

  12. #72
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    Yes, but which version is authoritative?

    In 40k, there's a nice bright line: 2nd vs what came after.

    Where's the line in WHFB? Is it 8th? Was that the definitive edition, or merely the one where GW finally ran out of gas?
    First off, I'd argue that 2nd Ed. 40K was merely an expansion of Rogue Trader, so the definitive line is drawn on 3rd, and then redrawn on 6th, as they try to cram 2nd Ed. back IN.

    Second, for me, the definitive edition of WFB would be 6th. They establish the structure and balance that I feel they had been aiming for, and only misstepped with the army books. For the Oldhammer crowd, they pretty much consider 3rd Ed. WFB to be the definitive edition. So we're looking at a Golden/Silver/Modern age thing, ala comic books.



    Also, between certain older kits being rereleased under different boxes (IOB) and the Revell kits, seeing a model resupply isn't out of the question. And since TW:W2 is in the chute, it's reasonable to say the background is sticking around to an extent as well.

  13. #73

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrogamer View Post
    First off, I'd argue that 2nd Ed. 40K was merely an expansion of Rogue Trader, so the definitive line is drawn on 3rd, and then redrawn on 6th, as they try to cram 2nd Ed. back IN.
    There's no question that 2nd was the ultimate expression of what started out as RT. The 3rd ed is basically a different game that used the same models (for a while, at least).

    Second, for me, the definitive edition of WFB would be 6th. They establish the structure and balance that I feel they had been aiming for, and only misstepped with the army books. For the Oldhammer crowd, they pretty much consider 3rd Ed. WFB to be the definitive edition. So we're looking at a Golden/Silver/Modern age thing, ala comic books.
    There are quite a few people who like 5th the best and treat 6th (and what came after) as the WHFB equivalent to 3rd.

    My point was that I don't know of any 40k player community that embraces one of the "intermediate" versions. There are the hard-core RT types, the 2nd ed. loyalists and the people who play whatever is current. 40k old-timers also benefit from the fact that the older editions didn't have nearly as many supplements.

    WHFB has much more in the way of divisions, which makes coalescing behind a particular version more difficult.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  14. #74

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrogamer View Post
    First off, I'd argue that 2nd Ed. 40K was merely an expansion of Rogue Trader, so the definitive line is drawn on 3rd, and then redrawn on 6th, as they try to cram 2nd Ed. back IN.
    There's no question that 2nd was the ultimate expression of what started out as RT. The 3rd ed is basically a different game that used the same models (for a while, at least).

    Second, for me, the definitive edition of WFB would be 6th. They establish the structure and balance that I feel they had been aiming for, and only misstepped with the army books. For the Oldhammer crowd, they pretty much consider 3rd Ed. WFB to be the definitive edition. So we're looking at a Golden/Silver/Modern age thing, ala comic books.
    There are quite a few people who like 5th the best and treat 6th (and what came after) as the WHFB equivalent to 3rd.

    My point was that I don't know of any 40k player community that embraces one of the "intermediate" versions. There are the hard-core RT types, the 2nd ed. loyalists and the people who play whatever is current. 40k old-timers also benefit from the fact that the older editions didn't have nearly as many supplements.

    WHFB has much more in the way of divisions, which makes coalescing behind a particular version more difficult.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  15. #75
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    6th Ed. WFB has the virtue of being complete. One of the myriad reasons I stick with it.


    3rd Ed. 40K is streamlined without being dull or autoplay, and also benefits from being complete. 7th WFB and possibly 4th 40K couldn't say that, and I think that's why they aren't every lauded in the same breath as their predecessors.

  16. #76

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Yes, but does anyone play 3rd ed. 40k? I don't think so.

    I agree with you about 6th, btw. I felt that by the time they started revving up 7th, 6th was approaching the most finished state of any of the games. The errata they put out the various supplements fixing obvious army list and rules problems showed that GW was within striking range of finally making a complete game.

    And then look what happened...
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  17. #77
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    I want to say Pete Haines happened, the Dwarf book at the tail end of 6th pretty much started the "feel" of the 7th edition army books. And no, I don't think it's a good thing. I'm honestly more inclined to strongly suggest in our current gaming club that when we play 6th, that we use the earlier Dwarf book.



    And as far as nobody playing 3rd edition 40K: Looking through social media, I can find at least one person per US state playing any edition of any given GW game. Usually there's more, but the fact remains that retrogaming has become more of a thing than ever before. (That last bit sounds peculiarly self-serving...)

  18. #78

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrogamer View Post
    I want to say Pete Haines happened, the Dwarf book at the tail end of 6th pretty much started the "feel" of the 7th edition army books. And no, I don't think it's a good thing. I'm honestly more inclined to strongly suggest in our current gaming club that when we play 6th, that we use the earlier Dwarf book.
    I always find it fascinating how the individual designers at GW get credit or blame when stuff goes wrong. You'd think someone would manage the brand better than that and prevent "rogue" army books from going out there.

    It's been brought up before, but there's a lot to be said for playing 6th using Ravening Hordes. Most armies are okay (and let's face it, the Bretonnians deserved to suffer after the excesses of 5th ) but they still feel distinct.

    And as far as nobody playing 3rd edition 40K: Looking through social media, I can find at least one person per US state playing any edition of any given GW game. Usually there's more, but the fact remains that retrogaming has become more of a thing than ever before. (That last bit sounds peculiarly self-serving...)
    To me the test is in the resale value of the items and whether people talk about it. There's still active threads here that talk about 2nd. I don't know of any who talk about 3rd.

    In fact, I'd wager that the much-hated Herohammer (aka 5th ed) has more modern adherents than 3rd and 4th ed. 40k combined.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  19. #79
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    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    In fact, I'd wager that the much-hated Herohammer (aka 5th ed) has more modern adherents than 3rd and 4th ed. 40k combined.
    And some of us love "Herohammer," don't forget! Worts and all... we figured out how to play around those supposed problems and had a great time back then, and there's nothing stopping us from doing the same today!

    Of course it's not for everybody (what is in this world?), but for those who have never seen Warhammer Fantasy 5th Edition in action, I highly recommend giving it a shot.

    Anyway, will Warhammer ever come back? Whadya mean? I am looking at my beautiful bookshelf laden with 5e books, boxes, cards, templates, paper buildings and piles and piles of 90's lead and all I can think is "did Warhammer ever really go?"

  20. #80

    Re: Will WFB ever come back?

    The IP, background-wise, still has a lot of tracking and followers. Renaissance fantasy screams Warhammer and GW, and that's one of the reasons, I believe, for which they decided to keep the old Empire look for their Free Guilds in AoS, even if they inicially hinted at barbarian-like armies of Conan Viking Sigmarite warriors (since the setting is esencially some sort of Viking fantasy on LSD). In fact, I wish the Stormcasts had more of an antique feel to it (they look and feel too much like Marines to my taste). The massive vikings in For Honor, but more armoured, would be the general direction I would have gone with.

    Regardless, GW is probably going to bring back WHFB in the future, maybe not the game, maybe skirmishes or siege minigame warfare or narrative roleplaying in the Old World.

    Or, maybe, maybe God exists and we'll get Mordheim again. With new minis. Maybe. One day.

    A man can dream.

    (And get his frikkin' updated Imperial Knights minis. 20-odd goddamn years we've been waiting!)

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