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Thread: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

  1. #1
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    This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    For starters, Raven Guard.

    Looks like a bit of air is getting let out of the alpha strike bubble already, with how Raven Guard are hard to hit from a distance.

  2. #2
    Archanist Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    So Raven Guard are now the gunline Chapter, and Ultramarines are the hit & run Chapter.

    Ho hum.

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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Viewed on its own you could take it that way, but Raven Guard also have a stratagem that's infiltratey.

    So pop that, deploy in ruins, skirt your way up to the enemy. That seems pretty Raven Guard-ish to me.

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    Fighter of the Nightman Denny's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    I've been tempted to go Ravenguard with my stuff from the box set.

    It's cool their bonus benefits shooty units and isn't overly focused on jump packs.
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    Chapter Master Rogue Star's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    So Raven Guard are now the gunline Chapter, and Ultramarines are the hit & run Chapter.

    Ho hum.
    I dunno, seems more fitting to me that Raven Guard are harder to hit, especially in cover, as opposed to their old rules which was they crept forwards a bit closer to spring on you with jumpacks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    It's cool their bonus benefits shooty units and isn't overly focused on jump packs.
    This.
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    And now, White Scars.

    Better at covering ground, better at charges if you take Khan, and they have a stratagem that lets them advance and charge in the same turn.

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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Over on Bolter and Chainsword they've fished out the other chapter tactic graphics via URL hunting.

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    Chapter Master R Man's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    There's also a list of them here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-4/

    Some of them seem quite powerful. The Raven Guard one in particular. The Ultramarines one looks pretty good too. These two seem the best overall. White Scars as well. The extra movement +charge could be very good with the right build and against the right enemy. Imperial Firsts could also be quite good, if you play on terrain heavy battlefields. I think they are good, because they benefit many units and could be useful in different ways. For example, the White Scars could use their mobility defensively, as well as offensively. The Iron Hands one seems ok, but probably a weaker ability overall.

    The others seem somewhat underwhelming. The Black Templars one might be good, but it seems a bit underwhelming, as a lot of the flexibility of the other traits is missing. Basically, some units will not use it very often. The Salamander one? Maybe, it could be good for vehicles, or if you like special weapons and power fists, but it seems to lack impact. In the right situation, sure it could do some damage, but I think most enemies just wouldn't care.

    Of course, I am not a Space Marine Player, so maybe I've overlooked something.

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    Fighter of the Nightman Denny's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by R Man View Post
    The others seem somewhat underwhelming. The Black Templars one might be good, but it seems a bit underwhelming, as a lot of the flexibility of the other traits is missing. Basically, some units will not use it very often. The Salamander one? Maybe, it could be good for vehicles, or if you like special weapons and power fists, but it seems to lack impact. In the right situation, sure it could do some damage, but I think most enemies just wouldn't care.
    I dunno. The Salamander one is pretty nasty. Maybe not for massed bolter fire, but rerolling to hit and wound on a lascannon or meltagun is pretty useful, and as Characters are now separate units that means they also benefit from rerolling. It applies to shooting and fighting as well. Realistically, its a trait you will be using for every unit every turn, whereas some of the others are a little more situational.

    I agree the Black Templars is a little more situational, but it would be very nasty combine with deep striking units; rerolling those charges makes a 9 inch charge much easier to pull off.
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    Chapter Master Rogue Star's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by R Man View Post
    Some of them seem quite powerful. The Raven Guard one in particular. The Ultramarines one looks pretty good too. These two seem the best overall. White Scars as well. The extra movement +charge could be very good with the right build and against the right enemy. Imperial Firsts could also be quite good, if you play on terrain heavy battlefields. I think they are good, because they benefit many units and could be useful in different ways. For example, the White Scars could use their mobility defensively, as well as offensively. The Iron Hands one seems ok, but probably a weaker ability overall.

    The others seem somewhat underwhelming. The Black Templars one might be good, but it seems a bit underwhelming, as a lot of the flexibility of the other traits is missing. Basically, some units will not use it very often. The Salamander one? Maybe, it could be good for vehicles, or if you like special weapons and power fists, but it seems to lack impact. In the right situation, sure it could do some damage, but I think most enemies just wouldn't care.

    Of course, I am not a Space Marine Player, so maybe I've overlooked something.
    I think the Black Templar one is pretty good, certainly better than the White Scars' Chapter Tactics, because it's less situational and more direct. Whatever you're charging at, doesn't just get the odd couple of extra inches like most other charge abilities, they get to make a second roll if they fail to reach the target. Compared to this, the White Scars get the ability to re-enter combat. Remember, the benefit of charging now, is that you get to strike first. Then again, if it's your turn (Fall Back at the start of your Movement Phase), you'll be activating your units in the Assault Phase anyway... it's just less of a gamble, and the ability to pick your fights better.

    Not saying you can't do some sneaky stuff with it, if you are clever you could tie up the right unit on one flank with White Scars' Bikers, endure a round of combat, Fall Back your full movement to the other flank, and charge another unit (which if they're in combat with Reivers, with Shock Grenades that remove Overwatch, can allow you to bait a trap)and essentially relocate your entire army from one side of the table! But it's basically a fancy way of letting you decide where to be... compared to the Black Templars, who are pretty much guaranteed to reach you after hopping out of their vehicles/droppods/etc and then smash yo face!

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    I agree the Black Templars is a little more situational, but it would be very nasty combine with deep striking units; rerolling those charges makes a 9 inch charge much easier to pull off.
    Just like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    I dunno. The Salamander one is pretty nasty. Maybe not for massed bolter fire, but rerolling to hit and wound on a lascannon or meltagun is pretty useful, and as Characters are now separate units that means they also benefit from rerolling. It applies to shooting and fighting as well. Realistically, its a trait you will be using for every unit every turn, whereas some of the others are a little more situational.
    Salamanders will favor lots of small, heavily armed units, because the rule says "Salamander unit each time it shoots or fights". So each and every unit gets to re-roll a single to Hit/To Wound roll, per turn. More units, more re-rolls.
    Last edited by Rogue Star; 19-07-2017 at 10:40.
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  11. #11
    Chapter Master R Man's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    I dunno. The Salamander one is pretty nasty. Maybe not for massed bolter fire, but rerolling to hit and wound on a lascannon or meltagun is pretty useful, and as Characters are now separate units that means they also benefit from rerolling. It applies to shooting and fighting as well. Realistically, its a trait you will be using for every unit every turn, whereas some of the others are a little more situational.
    Fair call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    I think the Black Templar one is pretty good, certainly better than the White Scars' Chapter Tactics, because it's less situational and more direct. Whatever you're charging at, doesn't just get the odd couple of extra inches like most other charge abilities, they get to make a second roll if they fail to reach the target. Compared to this, the White Scars get the ability to re-enter combat. Remember, the benefit of charging now, is that you get to strike first. Then again, if it's your turn (Fall Back at the start of your Movement Phase), you'll be activating your units in the Assault Phase anyway... it's just less of a gamble, and the ability to pick your fights better.
    Yeah, maybe. I just think that an extra benefit for movement (well, advancing), is really useful, at least for a good player. But I could be wrong.

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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Black Templar deep strikes promise to be a lot more effective. That reroll makes chance of charging off of deep strike much more significant. Drop pods, assault marines and assault terminators will be sporting crusader colours simply because they are much more reliable on the turn they arrive. Ohter uses will be more on the first two turns, when it is a struggle to close to less than 5".

    Conversly, the whites scars really helps them remain mobile. If they want to charge out and recharge back in to guarentee strike first then they can, (risking overwatch) but the biggest factor is simply being able to unpin from one combat and move into another, or turn it into a multicharge.

    I think they all offer something, with the Ravenguard -1 to hit being probably the most powerful as armies which get closer will generally not be so interested in shooting. Effectively, half of these tactics will result in one or two marines a turn surviving whereas before they would have died. Templars, Fists and Salamanders are directly based on improved damage, with the fists probably offering the greatest potential for damage (though shooting flying armies with Salamanders is looking a lot easier).
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sureshot05 View Post
    Templars, Fists and Salamanders are directly based on improved damage, with the fists probably offering the greatest potential for damage.
    Sorry, but why does people seem to think that the IF CT is strong? In my eyes it looks very situational.

  14. #14
    Fighter of the Nightman Denny's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Yeah the fists looks weakest to me. I think people are approching it with 7th in mind. In 8th ignores cover is basically an extra -1 to the save of units in (but not standing next to) cover. There's no jink, no stealth, no shrouded, no hiding behind other units. Cover is scarce now.
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Yeah the fists looks weakest to me. I think people are approching it with 7th in mind. In 8th ignores cover is basically an extra -1 to the save of units in (but not standing next to) cover. There's no jink, no stealth, no shrouded, no hiding behind other units. Cover is scarce now.
    Exactly. I haven't had the time to try out the new rules so far but from what I've seen in battle reports it doesn't tend to come up that often. The discrepancy between CTs are quite big so I hope they will balance it out with good stratagems and gears, but otherwise it looks like time to finish painting up my eldars instead.

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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    My mate runs a WS bike army and having access to stuff as he runs an indie store, has read the new book and seems to believe Khan and librarians cant take bikes anymore. That cant be right.

    The Index says they can so why suddenly change it?
    In reference to Squat usage in game.
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    Chapter Master MagicHat's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Index had a lot of legacy stuff, things that are now out of production or never had a model in the first place.

    Future codex releases will be more restricted to what actually exists, within some reason. Tactical Marines doesn't lose all their wargear options for instance.

    Their codex FAQ talks about this, and how to use the models that are in the Index but not the codex.

  18. #18
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Ace, ill throw that his direction to calm him down
    In reference to Squat usage in game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxmei
    You can still play them with opponent's permission the same way you can play Gummi Bears with opponent's permission.
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  19. #19
    Archanist Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicHat View Post
    Their codex FAQ talks about this, and how to use the models that are in the Index but not the codex.
    Of course they also say that Codex entries overwright Index entries, and that in official publications and events they assume you'll be using the Codex entries.

    What they're really saying is that if your opponent agrees then you can do whatever - which is a total non-answer.

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    Re: This week GW is previewing the chapter traits from the new Space Marines codex.

    I'd emphasise entry over Codex or Index.

    IOW, the Codex only updates what is specifically in the Codex. Of course, this does extend to certain options, but a Khan or Librarian on bike, as a unique entry.
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