Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

  1. #1
    Veteran Sergeant
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    93

    40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...60#post7663660 I already stated my first thoughts on 8th edition 40K, and I could not stop myself from thinking ...

    My list in no particular order of the figurines that I like, have, and would like to game with are as follows:

    - vanilla space marines in power armor
    - imperial guardsmen
    - chaos cultists
    - necron warriors
    - ork boyz
    - genestealer hybrids

    I have storage cases filled with the above miniatures. Do I finally dump everything, or do I try to salvage some component of play with 8th edition 40K?

    All of my figurines are on 25mm bases (even my Space Marine Terminators). Some are lead. Some are pewter. Some are over 20 years old. Some are over 10 years old. Some are over 5 years old. And, I am minimalist painter. Not much of a second-hand market value. I might as well see if I can fit into a niche with 8th edition 40K. By niche, for example, I mean around four or five 10-man squads of imperial guardsmen on foot.

    I found the "Read-Along: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition" videos by CanHammer on youtube.

    I had no idea what was in an Index book until I skimmed through some of these CanHammer videos. Hmm, looks to me that if I want to game with my above figurines in squads/mobs/broods using 8th edition 40K, then I need the following Indices:

    Index: Imperium 1 - vanilla space marines
    Index: Imperium 2 - imperial guardsmen
    Index: Chaos - chaos cultists
    Index: Xenos 1 - necron warriors
    Index: Xenos 2 - ork boyz, genestealer hybrids

    Jeez, that's all five of the Indicies.

    Page 242 in the 8th edition 40K rulebook under the BATTLEFIELD ROLE SLOTS states:
    The icons on a Detachment are referred to as slots. Each slot will typically specify a single Battlefield Role. Each slot allows you to take one unit. Red icons are compulsory selections - you must take at least this many units of the appropriate Battlefield Role to include the Detachment in your army. Grey icons are optional selections - you can include up to this number of units with the appropriate Battlefield Role when including the Detachment in your army.
    Page 243 has diagrams of the detachments. The Patrol Detachment and the Battalion Detachment each have the battlefied roles of HQ and Troop containing red slots while none of their other battlefield roles (Elites, Fast Attack, etc.) in the Patrol Detachment and the Battalion Detachment have any red slots. Let me remove those battlefield roles which do not have any red slots from the the Patrol Detachment and the Battalion Detachment, and restate these detachments using "Red" as a prefix as follows:

    Red Patrol Detachment
    - Red: 1 HQ, 1 Troop,
    - Limit: 1-2 HQ, 1-3 Troops

    Red Battalion Detachment
    - Red: 2 HQ, 3 Troop,
    - Limit: 2-3 HQ, 3-6 Troops

    In the above "Red" detachments, I have a commitment level of miniatures for a player that I like as a starting point. Next, I need to define the control levers to increase and decrease the capability of the "Red" detachments, for example, as follows:

    - Maximum power level of a HQ
    - Add Dedicated Transports

    I can see a "Red Patrol Battle" occuring on a 2'x2' play area. A Space Marine Captain on a bike has a Move of 14" and, for me, that's too much mobility on a 2'x2' play area. A Space Marine Captain has a power level of 5, a Space Marine Captain in Terminator Armor has a power level of 8, and a Space Marine Captain on a bike has a power level of 7. If I set the maximum power level of a HQ to 5, then I retain the Space Marine Captain, and disallow the Space Marine Captain in Terminator Armor and the Space Marine Captain on a bike. I would have to go through all of the factions to see the impact of having a maximum power level of 5 for a HQ.

    The idea of "Red Patrol Battles" and "Red Battalion Battles" has me leaning on the fence towards the side of 8th edition 40K and buying the Indicies.

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-2/
    - "Each codex is a dedicated book about a single faction from the Warhammer 40,000 setting and game"
    - "You can expect to see around 10 new codexes before Christmas, starting with Codex: Space Marines, coming later this month."
    - "Even with the pace we’re planning on releases these new codexes, it’s going to take well over a year to get to all of them."
    - "Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online."
    - "Certain armies will get new miniatures alongside their new codex, and others won’t."
    - "Codexes, of course, allow us to focus on a faction in more detail than we could ever hope to in an index book. Alongside new expanded and updated background, you’ll find a wealth of rules content: army specific Stratagems, Relics, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives, psychic powers and more besides."

    The idea of 8th edition 40K being only about codex games has me leaning on the fence away from the side of 8th edition 40K.

  2. #2
    Chapter Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse
    Posts
    2,085

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    Well, nothing forces you to use the Codex, So if you'd rather use the index lists then go for it. I'm pretty sure I will be. Obviously you can't stop your opponent using the codex's if they want to...

    I got rid of most of my 40k stuff years ago, all my marines, Chaos, Eldar and about 80% of my Guard , inc all my GW tanks. I don't miss the stuff I got rid of, I kept my favourites!
    All thats left of the original collection is my RT-era Guard company and a company of 2nd ed Cadians. Both, with a few of my Scratchbuilt tanks for support, fit rather neatly into a Patrol Org-chart, and I'm happy that thats the sort of game I'd like to play.
    I've since collected a couple of other forces (mostly non GW, or 2nd hand older ranges) and have either rounded them out for Patrol sized games already or I'm aiming to. I feel that this approach makes my forces usable in either 2nd ed or 8th ed, which are the two I'm most likely to play.

    I'm happy to dabble with 8th- I think it lacks the character of the earliest editions, but is much more fluid than the more recent ones, so from me it scores a solid "its actually not bad at all..." but I prefer 2nd.

    It sounds like you'd perhaps like to play things like the old Combat Patrol sized games (from 3rd/4th ed?) Don't know if you recall those- the idea being you only had 400 points aside but with various limitations so the big heroes and more powerful tanks stayed home. It was pretty good. But perhaps if you fancy small games maybe Rogue Trader is more your cup of tea? Or 2nd ed. Plenty of folk still playing 'em. Me for one.

    But I totally get that "Codex-Dread" .

  3. #3

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    Ten years ago, I would have been really excited about 8th. It seems like a pretty decent game.

    The thing is, I'm comfortable playing 2nd. I don't have a ton of time to game anyway, and I would prefer to spend my money on other stuff than what is basically a variant set of 40k rules.

    To me that is the only reason to switch - the ease of finding opponents. If you have a group that plays the edition you like (as I do), I can't imagine making the switch.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  4. #4
    Chapter Master duffybear1988's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,068

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    I've been playing 8th a lot as at a glance it does appear to be a vast improvement. Play some games and it loses the shine very quickly. Simple rules, poor army lists and points costs that make no sense. For something that was supposed to have been play tested it doesn't show.

    Basically take an alpha strike list or lose. It's an over simplified game with the exact same problems as 6th and 7th.

  5. #5
    Chapter Master Bloodknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    11,773

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    Basically take an alpha strike list or lose.
    That actually only says that your table sucks. If these kinds of lists are good, you really need to work on the terrain you're using.
    http://www.mekwars.org Play Battletech online in the MegamekNet 3025 campaign environment with people from around the world. New players welcome. Join a noble house and fight for supremacy in the Inner Sphere. Non-commercial community project, no cost.
    My random Sci-Fi Plog, mostly Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar and CSM Current Project: Bad Moons.

  6. #6

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    Aye, a 9" charge, while not impossible, is unreliable with ~28% chance of working.

    If they get around to adding more complex terrain rules back in, (maybe in a new cities of death expansion) this edition could be pretty good. Then they'd just need to bring back initiative (maybe have chargers get +2init) and vehicle/monstrous creature firing arcs.

  7. #7
    Chapter Master Bloodknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    11,773

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    Then they'd just need to bring back initiative
    Dunno, I like the changed dynamics of the game.
    http://www.mekwars.org Play Battletech online in the MegamekNet 3025 campaign environment with people from around the world. New players welcome. Join a noble house and fight for supremacy in the Inner Sphere. Non-commercial community project, no cost.
    My random Sci-Fi Plog, mostly Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar and CSM Current Project: Bad Moons.

  8. #8

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodknight View Post
    Dunno, I like the changed dynamics of the game.
    I guess it's just a mater of taste. I think init makes more sense, but they way it is now can be more tactical

  9. #9
    Chapter Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse
    Posts
    2,085

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    GW never really worked out what to do with I in any of their games. Half the time it varied wildly but did nothing useful, and then when they gave it a lot of things to do they rewrote all the stats so that there was almost no variation! Which meant it still didnt do anything, and a whole bunch of special rules had to be brought in to make up for it. Madness.

  10. #10

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    For the record, I'm officially *off the fence* and holding off on 8th.

    I like 2nd fine, and I decided to sink my spare cash into rebuilding a Mauser C96 "Broomhandle." That's my gaming budget and then some.

    This is of course the classic dilemma of being part of the "GW Hobby":

    Do I pay a bunch of money for the latest rule books and army lists and more models to correct changes to my list, or do I go and buy something I don't already have?

    I already have a 40k game and like it fine. All paid for and everything. Never had a Broomhandle before. Can't wait to slap the parts together and see if the thing will work...
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.

    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  11. #11
    Admin blackcherry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    WarSeer
    Posts
    3,375

    Re: 40K8th fence sitting thoughts

    I'm on the side of 'tenativly enjoying it'. The game seems a lot more fluid, which for someone who has less freetime these days is what I want in a larger game. No edition is going to be perfect and I won't pretend I play with a tournament mindset. But the codecies I have picked up show a lot more depth and options for synegy and building 'fluffy' lists, whilst on the face of it seeming more simple. Can't say if that's the case for every set of rules, but it is for those I've read.

    Plus, morale actually does something in this edition!
    Here is a link to the WarSeer Forum FAQ. Please read it. Want to support WarSeer? Here's how.

    Blood for the Blood God!: My Word Bearers Plog

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •