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  1. #1
    Chapter Master Karak Norn Clansman's Avatar
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    Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    If anyone promised themselves to never see a Star Wars movie again after Episode VIII, do yourselves a favour and watch the Han Solo film.

    While the new trilogy seems to end up to be less than the prequels, Solo is the best Star Wars movie ever made.

    The story clicks (meaning it works - very well - apart from a ship owed to Lando by Han after a game of cards, but I might have missed something obvious), is unpredictable and entirely suitable for a Han Solo story. You get to see one of the great industrial, overpopulated core worlds of Star Wars come to life, the way you always wished for and always wanted to see beyond the backwater battlefields of the original trilogy (the prequels took a step in the right direction in this department). This movie is fun, it's roguishly charming, it's gritty and it's got action and a Russian roulette of double-crossing, backstabbing and guessing what is actually part of the plan, and what each character's game is. Oh, and aesthetically it's all crafted with attention to details and designs true to what has come before and expanding much upon it flawlessly.

    One of the best movies ever made, in my book, along the likes of Jurassic Park and the Lotr trilogy. While the original Star Wars trilogy will remain a cinematic classic for all time (if technologically advanced human civilization, and files and physical copies of it survives the teeth of time), Solo: A Star Wars Story, is even more enjoyable, and better, than even the originals.

    Burn me for a heretic now, and it's not just the pleasure of the new. Cheers!

    Please delete, merge with existing thread or whatever is necessary if this placed in the wrong section.

  2. #2
    Inquisitor Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    I don't know about one of the best films ever made, but it was... alright.

    Which after The Last Jedi, and following the various dramas behind the scenes is quite impressive.


    I'd much rather have had an entire movie of the 'Empire re-enacts WWI' swamp planet battle(s) though.
    Last edited by Lord Damocles; 28-05-2018 at 09:25. Reason: I kan spel gud innit

  3. #3
    Chapter Master nagash66's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Yeah no, it might be good, it might not be. But after the last jedi its going to be a many a year until i pay for another disney star wars.
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  4. #4

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Karak Norn Clansman View Post
    If anyone promised themselves to never see a Star Wars movie again after Episode VIII, do yourselves a favour and watch the Han Solo film.
    What if I quit before then?

    While the new trilogy seems to end up to be less than the prequels, Solo is the best Star Wars movie ever made.
    I think it's great that you liked the movie, but I think your seriously overselling this.

    In fact, the big problem with the increasing volume of Star Wars movies is that they're all so intertwined as to leave little of interest to the casual viewer. How likely are people with zero previous knowledge of Star Wars to understand or care about anything in this movie? I actually do care about Star Wars but I have no interest in seeing it because it does nothing to advance the storyline. It's just official fan fiction, which bores me.

    The original trilogy wasn't actually "Star Wars movies," they were just plain movies, judged on their own merits and compared with other films not just in the sci-fi genre, but also in terms of action and adventure.

    Now that Star Wars is its own genre, the grading scale is getting warped.

    This means that the original trilogy is now the standard of excellence. While they are great films, they're not perfect by any stretch, and their limitations are cascading into everything else.

    To put it another way: Star Wars is becoming ponderous, formulaic and dull. The original trilogy was fun because no one knew where it was going or what to expect other than a good time. That sense of mystery is now gone because we know that whatever else happens, there's going to be a new movie. Oh, and even if we don't know how the third trilogy will turn out, we can be pretty sure what plot elements are in it because the formula requires it.

    Han Solo was supposed to be a mysterious guy, a smuggler with a dark past who finds redemption. There are hints of what happened, but only enough to explain his actions in the present.

    Once you go back and start nailing everything down, the mystery is gone.

    Making matters worse, this isn't actual backstory. It's not like George Lucas died and his heirs are publishing his exhaustive and detailed notes about everything. Lucas himself didn't really know what the back story was because *SPOILER ALERT* he didn't actually write most of the original trilogy. It was a team effort and some of the best and iconic lines were ad-libbed. When the original film turned out to be a block-buster, 20th Century Fox took it away from him so he wouldn't screw it up.

    If they hadn't done that, Empire would have looked like Phantom Menace and the genre would have died in 1980.

    So the whole exercise is one of ret-conning a movie out of a movie, strip-mining fan fiction for profit. I can't get behind that.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try the revised and expanded Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

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  5. #5

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    I'm returning to Star Wars when they make the Darth Darth Binks thing official.

    Ever since Disney bought it it makes the impression of being just one ginormous cash grab (well even more so than before). There has to be a new movie every year. But as Star Trek taught us Franchise Fatigue is a very real thing. I'm curious how long it'll take for Disney to milk this cash cow to death.

  6. #6
    Chapter Master theunwantedbeing's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    So what are the jokes like in this one?
    Plan B kill it with fire
    Meat is Murder tasty, tasty murder
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  7. #7
    Chapter Master Karak Norn Clansman's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Well, it's a very enjoyable movie. Taste differs. Obviously, if you happen upon a movie that just happens to suit your cinematic tastes you're going to like it a lot. And maybe even wonder how such a product could be almost tailored to your own tastes. I'm still elated, and still mean it: Best Star Wars movie and one of the best in general I've seen. Of course, I very much enjoy a visual spectacle that transport you to another world completely, and even though acting and story may be better in many real-world setting movies, they don't grip the imagination the same way fictive settings do. While intelligent narratives on screen are appreciated, they can be found to usually much better effect and depth in plenty of books, and I do read a lot, watch movies a lot less. For movies, it's another niche: A charming visual spectacle with some unexpected turns in another world is more what I look for, and can only assume that while a minority position, I can't be alone in it. So if I like something a lot it seems safe to recommend it to others: They may at least like it enough to think it worth the watch.

    I'd have enjoyed it greatly without previous Star Wars familiarity (stands well enough on its own legs), although having that baggage did enhance the experience. Usually, breaking mysteries is a bad idea (and we'll see how this turns out in the Boba Fett film's case, on the SW topic), but Solo was a pleasant surprise in this regard. Glad they filmed it.

    Everything ever sold is a cash grab. The only thing that matter in the end, is quality.

    The jokes are for the most part bearable or fun, at least from this jolly simpleton's perspective. Cheers

  8. #8

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    I also like visually striking films, but story and acting take prime place. I'm not one of those people who can look past plot holes or woodenly-delivered lines simply because the CGI-generated set is cool.

    It doesn't have to be an either-or proposition. You can (and we have) gotten both striking visuals AND good story WITH great acting. The latter two simply seem in short supply these days.

    I also have to add that I'm more interested in original stories than continued strip-mining of Star Wars. Loved the movies, actually own a movie-grade stormtrooper costume, but hate what has happened to it.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try the revised and expanded Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

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  9. #9
    Stick figure on a beach Arnizipal's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    I thought it was good. Started a bit slow though.
    You can see the impact of the original directors in the first part of the film. It's more of a heist story about rogues with a heart of gold shooting oneliners at each other.
    Luckily things got better as soon as Han runs into Lando. Donald Glover was born to play this role
    Not sold on Ehrenreich's Han though. He did a decent job but but he has big boots to fill... I guess my mine gripe is that he doesn't look like Harrison Ford at all.

    All-in-all a very enjoyable film. Even more so if you're aware of the links to the other films but it stands on its own just fine.
    I recommend it.

    Couple of things I wonder about:
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  10. #10
    Inquisitor Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Regarding the spoilers:

    It felt rather like the character had been chopped and changed rather a lot between versions of the film.

  11. #11

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Something I find really annoying is the way people defend these films simply because they are part of the Star Wars franchise.

    The original movies were flawed, but still achieved greatness.

    By any objective measure, their successors are terrible but people cut them slack because now Star Wars is graded on a curve. Plot holes that would destroy any other film get glossed over because the director throws some in some token fan lore and everyone swoons.

    It hate to say it but it all comes down to:

    Star Wars fans are really cheap dates.

    I can say that because I made excuse after excuse for the prequels. I loved the original films and I really wanted the magic to come back. Guess what? The prequels were terrible films. By any objective measure their plots made no sense, their characters were static and the specials effects were needlessly overbearing.

    Yet I defended them because I loved Star Wars.

    Episode III broke me. It was so awful, so bad, made Darth Vader look like such a useless tool that I was done. Lucas had wrecked the Force, Yoda, the Jedi and everything else that was decent and I couldn't take it anymore.

    When Episode VII came out, I went under protest. My family dragged me to see it and I hated it. I thought Rogue One might not suck, but while it had some cool moments and interesting characters - who were all killed - it's plot made zero sense.

    And so now we have another attempt to profit off of the public's goodwill and people feel good because everyone likes Han Solo and wants to like a movie about him. And who didn't think Lando was cool? Just watching Empire makes me want to pick up a case of Colt 45 ("works every time") and kick back with my lady friend.

    But we need to be objective here. We need to stop grading on a curve.

    These movies are awful. Let's just admit it, and move on.
    Last edited by Commissar von Toussaint; 05-06-2018 at 00:06.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try the revised and expanded Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.
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  12. #12
    Stick figure on a beach Arnizipal's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    Something I find really annoying is the way people defend these films simply because they are part of the Star Wars franchise.

    The original movies were flawed, but still achieved greatness.
    Let me just stop you right here and ask you how old you were when you first saw them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOMUS View Post
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  13. #13

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnizipal View Post
    Let me just stop you right here and ask you how old you were when you first saw them.
    Not sure what you're driving at. The original Star Wars took the country by storm. The freaking disco version of its theme charted on the radio. It took more than just ignorant and easily-impressed children to pull that off.

    Star Wars changed the way people approached space. No longer was it a sterile, clean environment as shown in Star Trek or 2001. It was now used, lived-in, familiar. Han Solo drove a hot rod, not just a space ship.

    It also came at a time of disillusionment and cynicism. Sci-fi in that era was universally pessimistic, like Logan's Run. Now you had a brash, swashbuckling tale with good guys, bad guys and it was fun.

    The current films are like Roger Moore's Bond movies: they may entertain, but no one's going to look back and say "Wow, those are classics that eclipse the originals!"
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try the revised and expanded Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.
    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  14. #14

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

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    What he's driving at, of course, is the fact that the way you look at the movies is shaped by the age at which you saw them.

    Even the self-proclaimed fans of the original trilogy are divided over the Ewoks, for example, and younger people born in later decades tend to look more favorably at them. However, if Episode IV was the first Star Wars you saw it will forever be the definitive Star Wars to you; the milestone against everything will be measured, and even the second and third film will be hard pressed to live up to your expectations. In that case, the Ewoks will be the Gungans of the original trilogy.

    I, on the other hand, grew up with the prequels. Of course I knew of the existence of the original films, but in my family there was no Star Wars cult to introduce me to the franchise so I was kind of indifferent towards them. Add the fact that they were starting to show their age at that point and they weren't particularly exciting.

    Then came the prequels, and I thought they were everything Star Wars should be. Lucas had lamented the fact that the available special effects were rather limited at the time of the original trilogy, but now in the age of CGI he could go full crazy with the effects. In my mind, it's what Star Wars was intended to be from the beginning, if Lucas had his way in the 70s. The whole dispute around them, I only picked up much, much later.

    I assume that younger audiences will look more favorably at the movies that are being bashed now by old curmudgeons. After all it's just a movie franchise; it was never perfect and never strove to be. It's a way to have fun for a few hours. The "problem" stems from the hardcore fans who form a religious cult around the franchise and assign a metaphysical meaning to every frame, even though it was meant to be simple entertainment cinema, not a church.
    Last edited by Ultimate Life Form; 10-06-2018 at 10:24.

  15. #15

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Life Form View Post
    What he's driving at, of course, is the fact that the way you look at the movies is shaped by the age at which you saw them.
    What he was doing was trying to disqualify me rather than addressing my argument, which is why I ignored it.

    People can separate sentiment from objectivity. I grew up during the Roger Moore era of James Bond, so in theory I should be most favorably disposed towards him.

    But his movies are some of the worst ones in the franchise.

    Also, the context matters. A movie that strikes out in a new direction, creating its own genre should get credit for originality and innovation even if a sequel manages to achieve higher production values.

    I assume that younger audiences will look more favorably at the movies that are being bashed now by old curmudgeons.
    And that's a shame, because older films (not just Star Wars) have a lot more substance and creativity than the current CGI demo reels.

    Just as with Star Trek or Doctor Who, you don't get "fandom" just with special effects - there has to be something more there in terms of story and characters.

    By any objective measure, the prequels are weak. The acting is terrible, the plots make no sense whatsoever and there's no real sense of joy as there was in the originals.

    Basically, they really are just a visual feast (which is fine) but I doubt anyone is going to line up for Jake Lloyd's autograph at the next ComicCon.

    As to Ewoks, I didn't mind them. They're more fully realized than Gungans and while people whined about them at the time (and some still do), I think a lot of that is just striking a pose - setting yourself aside as a more discerning viewer rather than a total fanboy. I actually saw it happen in real time, which was funny. People who hooted with delight when the Ewoks emerged afterwards pretended that they hated them from the get-go. The Ewoks were so hated, they got their own spin-off. Odd.

    If you look objectively at the series as a whole, Jedi is arguably the best of the lot in terms of its character development, complexity and the way it draws the disparate threads together. The culminating battle is a masterpiece of editing and building suspense as the tide of battle surges back and forth.

    Also of note is the emergence of Leia as an independent actor. In the original she's most there for commentary and to be rescued. She's defiant and has some withering one-liners, but that's about it.

    In Empire she gets a little more to do as part of the Rebel command, but mostly she's there for the love interest.

    But in Jedi we see her successfully infiltrate Jabba's palace, insert Chewie into the dungeon and then kill Jabba with nothing more than a chain (no mean feat). On Endor she kills a few scouts and also manages to earn the Ewoks' trust with nothing more than her wits, contrasting favorably with the mixed results of her companions. Finally, even when shot she keeps her head and drops two stormtroopers at point blank range.

    And she does that without being a Mary Sue.

    John Williams arguably hit his peak with the soundtrack, building on the leitmotifs of the other films and blending the themes into the culmination. The music of the prequels is largely forgettable.

    The "problem" stems from the hardcore fans who form a religious cult around the franchise and assign a metaphysical meaning to every frame, even though it was meant to be simple entertainment cinema, not a church.
    I think the problem is that there is an expectation that if one doesn't shuffle into the theater and watch whatever pap Disney cranks out, you're are denounced as a hater, misogynist, etc. It's an odd marketing tactic and I don't think it will work.
    Last edited by Commissar von Toussaint; 11-06-2018 at 23:02.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try the revised and expanded Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.
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  16. #16
    Stick figure on a beach Arnizipal's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    What he was doing was trying to disqualify me rather than addressing my argument, which is why I ignored it.

    People can separate sentiment from objectivity. I grew up during the Roger Moore era of James Bond, so in theory I should be most favorably disposed towards him.

    But his movies are some of the worst ones in the franchise.

    Also, the context matters. A movie that strikes out in a new direction, creating its own genre should get credit for originality and innovation even if a sequel manages to achieve higher production values.
    Ultimate Life Form put it better than I did, but I wasn't trying to discredit you personally.
    I just get tired of people presenting the Original Trilogy as flawless representations of the Sci-Fi genre while the other films are beyond redemption.
    Usually this has to do with (or is at least influenced by) the fond memories people have of seeing the older films as kids, thus being familiar with (and accepting) their flaws before they could make a critical opinion about it.

    So far I haven't been disappointed by the "A Star Wars Story" films.
    You should give them a try at least. They do attempt to add something new to the franchise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOMUS View Post
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  17. #17

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnizipal View Post
    Ultimate Life Form put it better than I did, but I wasn't trying to discredit you personally.
    Well okay then.

    I just get tired of people presenting the Original Trilogy as flawless representations of the Sci-Fi genre while the other films are beyond redemption.
    They aren't sci-fi, they are space fantasy and pretty much defined the movie genre.

    Usually this has to do with (or is at least influenced by) the fond memories people have of seeing the older films as kids, thus being familiar with (and accepting) their flaws before they could make a critical opinion about it.
    I guess it may seem that way, but the originals were quite flawed and those of us of a certain age have pointed out each and every flaw in them for decades. I won't bore you with them, but they are many.

    The thing is, we can overlook those flaws because the films were revolutionary and also made on a very tight budget. No CGI, many shots (including F/X) were one take because film (actual celluoid) was expensive to buy and develop. So we cut them slack and marvel at the ingenuity.

    The issue for me is that with much more time, vastly greater resources and unlimited access to A-list talent we got fairly mediocre pictures that have to be graded on a curve. They don't really introduce anything new to the story (okay, they do, but I'll get to that in a minute) and the characters are utterly lame. Even the music is meh.

    Compare the power of Darth Vader's theme to any of the music that came since. Iconic. It's hard to catch that kind of lightning in a bottle twice.

    So far I haven't been disappointed by the "A Star Wars Story" films.
    Everyone has their own standard of taste. I freely admit mine is more exacting than it used to be. It's a function of getting old - I'm less inclined to waste time on crap.

    You should give them a try at least. They do attempt to add something new to the franchise.
    I did. I saw VII and hated it. It was largely recycled and the parts that were new, sucked.

    Similarly, I saw Rogue One and disliked it. It had some good moments, but the combination of bizarre plot decisions combined with the awful CGI Vader pr()n ruined it.

    So, having watched two disappointing movies, I fail to see why I should watch more.

    Now I'm sure you (and others) are thinking "see, old guy blinded by childhood memories" or something like that. It isn't that so much as objecting to wholesale re-writes of existing and beloved characters. It would be like a new set of movies following Harry Potter into adulthood and they have Ron be a white nationalist and Hermione turns into a crack whore. People might object.

    If Disney wanted to do something, they should have left the classic characters alone and made something ORIGINAL in the Star Wars universe. Then you don't have cranks like me refusing to watch it.

    Indeed, I think the cardinal mistake with Rogue One was to have ANY interaction with Vader or Leia or anyone in the high command involved. Make it smaller, more remote and maybe let a few characters survive and embark on a totally new adventure.

    Leave the original characters alone. Star Trek did that and it worked well.
    Last edited by Commissar von Toussaint; 12-06-2018 at 22:38.
    Want a better way to fight fantasy battles? Try the revised and expanded Conqueror: Fields of Victory!

    Do you like Star Wars but hate the prequels? Ever wish someone came up with a decent story about how a decadent galactic commonwealth descended into chaos and civil war? Look no further.
    A proud player of 2nd edition 40k.

  18. #18

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar von Toussaint View Post
    It would be like a new set of movies following Harry Potter into adulthood and they have Ron be a white nationalist and Hermione turns into a crack whore. People might object.
    No doubt, but what right do they have to? People don't own the characters. They only believe they do. And people, fictional or not, do change over time. In fact that's the very essence of fiction. Without change you have no plot, and without plot, you have no story. See where this goes? It's bad for business.

    If Hermione has a good, relatable reason to resort to crack (simply retconning her character doesn't cut it) then I'm all for it. Then again, I never had any stakes in Harry Potter.

  19. #19
    Inquisitor Lord Damocles's Avatar
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    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    I was born in '87 and I think/thought that ewoks are objectively stupid.


    ...the gungans at least had proper weapons...

  20. #20

    Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Damocles View Post
    I was born in '87 and I think/thought that ewoks are objectively stupid.
    Not a fan either. But the point is: The Ewoks are stupid and yet the original trilogy is heralded as the best movie series ever, while the prequels containing equally stupid stuff is apparently a great fault.

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