2000 Points Tomb Kings - Help wanted

[Commander X]

Before I'm spending the money to buy it all, I'd like to know if the list I made up is any good, or if I should try something entirely different. Anyway, here be the list:

Lord:
Liche High Priest(Hierophant): 320
-Collar of Shapesh
-2xDispell Scroll

Heroes:
Liche Priest:140
-Dispell Scroll
-On Casket of Souls
Tomb Prince:151
-Great Weapon + Light Armour
-Chariot
Tomb Prince(General):149
-Great Weapon
-Golden Ankrha

Core:
15 Skeletons:120
-Bows
14 Skeletons:112
-Bows
19 Skeletons:205
-Spear/Shield + Light Armour
-Full Command

Special:
19 Tomb Guards:258
-Full Command
Tomb Scorpion:85
Tomb Scorpion:85
3 Chariots:120

Rare:
Casket of Souls:165
Screaming Skull Catapult:90

Models:82 Casting Pool:2x1 2x2 2x3 (+2 standard) Dispell Pool:5

Is it any good like this?

[TheDrugLordX]

The list looks good, very defensive. Some thoughts though:

1) You want to consider giving your LHP the Cloak of Dunes. This allows him to fly wherever his incantations are needed, or to fly away out of harms way. At 20pts, this is priceless. Drop the Collar, if you think he'll take any damage he's dead anyway. The collar would do better on the other priest on the casket, bouncing off any missiles comming his way.

2) You alredy have a solid magic defense. With 5DD and -1 on enemies casting, why take 3 scrolls? Try going more offensive, drop a scroll and put the Staff of Ravening on your LHP. Together with the cloak this is a really effective offensive unit. Though, you of course still have to be careful with him.

3) What this army needs is fighting power. Sure, the prince in chariot is great, though against really though enemies (chaos) you'll need even harder hitters. Ushabtis are ideal for this. Get rid of the chariots, and get a unit of 3-4 ushabtis.

4) The Icon of Rakaph is priceless, with that banner your TG can protect a flank all by themselves. Consider making them a unit of 25 as well, for better durability.

I like the list, good luck!

[Commander X]

Your advice is good, the only flaw being that those changes will give me far too much points. Where should I get these from?

[CarlostheCraven]

Your list looks very similar to my first Tomb King list. I'll try to do a step by step evaluation of what you are taking

Characters
The high priest is a great option if you want to cast a lot of magic. I would drop the two dispell scrolls (50pts) for the Staff of Ravening (45) and the Cloak of the Dunes (20), losing a couple of skeletal bowmen (8 each) to ballance the difference.

As for your hero selection I like it, about the only thing I might add is the Chariot of Fire (despite it being overpriced relative to other chariots, you need all the extra punch you can get)

Core
Generally I use my bowmen as a speed bump as their limited range of 24" makes keeping them in the rear unfeasable. As such I generally make them minimun sized (10) to keep the cost in victory points low. By advancing them and creating the proper overrun corriders you should be able to set up advantaguous charges for your other units. Also I usually deploy a prince in their unit for turn 1 and possibly 2 in an attempt to get a little more firepower out of them before they die, who later moves to one of the combat blocks of infantry

Secondly a unit of nineteen skeleton infantry as a combat block is too small in a Tomb Kings Army. This size is fine in Vampire Counts where you can increase the size of the unit BEFORE combat. I would use the points saved from the decreased bowmen units to bolster this block - I like blocks of least thirty strong at 2000 points

Special
I like it all - 25 Tomb Guard would be ideal but very difficult to achieve without dropping another unit entirely. I usually use Ushabti over my chariots, but thats because I love the models, rather than any real tactical consideration. The high mobility of the chariots and their impact hits VS high WS and Strength for Ushabti balance out in my books.

Rare
The Casket of Souls is really cool, but if your opponent knows its coming do not expect to see it work often. In a tournament situation I think that it is money. However a second catapult, and upgrading both of them to have Skulls of the Foe, will still leave you with almost enough points for 3 more Tomb Guard. Without Skulls of the Foe, you could max out the Tomb Guard.

The potential for 4 catapult shots per turn from two catapults that cause panic for any wounds taken is amazing!!!

[Commander X]

Rare
The Casket of Souls is really cool, but if your opponent knows its coming do not expect to see it work often.
In a tournament situation I think that it is money.

Is 'being money' a good or a bad thing? As I'm not sure about this, I leave the Casket in for now.

With the rest of the advice from you two I made up the following. The only downside was that I had to drop a Scorpion to make it all fit in, is that a big problem?

New list goes as follows:

Lord:
Liche High Priest:310
-Cloak of the Dunes
-Staff of Ravening

Heroes:
Liche Priest:140
-Dispell Scroll
-On Casket of Souls
Tomb Prince:169
-Great Weapon
-Light Armour
Tomb Prince:129
-Collar of Shapesh
-Great Weapon

Core:
10 Skeletons:80
-Bows
10 Skeletons:80
-Bows
24 Skeletons:260
-Hand Weapon/Shield, Light Armour
-Standard + Musician

Special:
3 Ushabti:195
1 Tomb Scorpion:85
1 Tomb Scorpion:85
20 Tomb Guard:292
-Standard + Champion
-Icon of Rakaph

Rare:
Casket of Souls:165
Screaming Skull Catapult:90

Is it any better like this?

[TheDrugLordX]

Yeah, the list is better. One thing you might want to change though...

The mounted Tomb Prince. If the enemy has any shooting or magic, count with it to come his way. Now, that's a very expensive chariot, 65pts. And with only 3W T4 and 5+save even the lightest missiles can destroy it, and destroying it might cause a wound on your TP as well. This is a bit risky, either you must be really carefull with him, or simply drop the chariot.

Your idea is nice, having a US5 character charge flanks could work very well, but he gets so vulnerable so that I don't know if it's worth it.

I would drop the chariot, the cost speak for itself, 65pts equal a Ushabti

Now, with 2 characters on foot you have a character with each regiment, which is needed (especially for the skellies as they are very voulnerable). You could keep with sticking each one in a skeleton bowmen regiment, this will get uses of their magic and when enemy approaches move them into the fighting regiments. Also, having them in the bowmen regiments scares of many fast cav that wants to interfere.

And I just noticed: Spears on Skelleton warriors? no no, they can't fight! drop the spears, and use the remaining pts to get a 25man strong Tomb Guard unit.

[Commander X]

*List is edited above your post*

As they can't fight, I also got rid of the champion, and used some of the free points to make the Tomb Guard a block of 20(Ok, only 1 extra, but that makes them a good block if charged before the Prince joins them.)

However, instead of a fourth Ushabti, I thought it was better to spend 85 points on getting the second Scorpion back, as those are the only real warmachine hunters in the list.

[tank_metal]

to be honest u need to protect your heirophant, he needs to be on the casket preferably on a hill with ushabti in front, trust me only a bunker can get through it but ur tomb guard stoip them
give ur HLP the casket golden ankhra and neferattas plaque which can be used oin the casket and the Hjar

[Brother Edwin]

I would not take tomb guard. A very expensive and slow unit.

I would also take a king and 3 priests. The best thing about tomb kings is that their magic is very hard to stop as it is relentlessly successful. And the move spells are very nasty.

[tarrym]

to be honest u need to protect your heirophant, he needs to be on the casket preferably on a hill with ushabti in front, trust me only a bunker can get through it but ur tomb guard stoip them
give ur HLP the casket golden ankhra and neferattas plaque which can be used oin the casket and the Hjar

I'd be very cautious about such a huge points sink....your really important expensive lord, who is also crucial the army (heirophant), is basically stuck there with a 12" range on his spells and no way to escape if enemy flyers came within 20". He is only T3 W3...and a 4+ ward save only goes so far.

The tactic with blocking ushabti works fine, but only in one direction (usually straight forward I imagine). Its also pretty situational as it relies on you a) getting a hill in your deployment zone and b) not having loads of scenery blocking LoS to that hill (i.e. forests/buildings) and c) that hill being a half decent place to deploy the rest of your army around. Plus in my experience ushabti are relatively fragile to shooting/magic missiles.


Finally, I can see that the casket rules are sufficiently vague that you could argue that as a member of it's crew, the priest with the casket is effectively casting the Light of Death incantation. However I'm not sure that this was how the Plaques were meant to be used. Can't find anything in the FAQ though sadly.