Warhammer in your area - Declining, steady, or rising?

[IcedCrow]

I'm going to gamesday in Chicago this year and I wanted to discuss this with them, specifically as it pertains to their damned 4th consecutive price rise.

In the Louisville area we seem to be losing players rapidly. We are at 50% of our normal strength from a couple years ago.

The main problem? Warmachine. Warmachine has over half of our old players, and accounts for about 90% of all new wargamers here. They cite many reasons for this but the top 3 that I hear a lot:

1) Prices
2) Point size in warmachine tournaments is 500 pts compared to Warhammer (more expensive money wise anyway).
3) Army lists in seperate books require MORE money to get your opponents lists, whereas in WM all is in one or two books.

There are a host of other reasons, but those are the ones I hear the most.

I realize in Europe this isn't as big a deal. I'm interested to hear from players in America ... how are GW games doing in your area? Are you getting more players? Holding steady? Or are you bleeding players away and why?

[Avian]

We're seeing a slow increase here in Trondheim, as far as I can tell. Been on the rise steadily since I first came here i 98.

[Zeb]

Increasing stedily in Umeå, Sweden. Most probably because of one of the best (if not the best) retailer in Sweden.
In Gothenburg, Sweden I think (but are not sure) that there is a small increase due to the fact of the newly opened GW Store and the Battle Bunker that came with it. But from what I have heared (my fiancee is a school teacher after all, and a good spy) it's mostly 40K. And my conclusion to this is because the models are easier to paint, a new edition is out, smaller battles (1500pts) and easier rules.

Nice to see you around again IcedCrow.

[IcedCrow]

Nice to see you too. I've been around, but in lurk mode mostly. It's different from when I was active on Portent ...

[LionoftheBegs]

In my Area its Declining. We used to have 4 game boards for Warhammer and most of the time, they would spill on to the Ancient and Historical Boards, where I played the most. I also played on the Warhammer boards some times, but mostly it was the Historicals.

Anyway people stopped comming and I guess its two reasons why. Many did not like price increases and stopped buying stuff. This led them to face newer and better armies than they had, resulting in them losing more. And because of that they stopped comming. The other I guess was me and the Historical group laughing at them as we laughed at WHFB Character rules, thier attempt to make us play WHFB and thier dreadful attempt to scorn us because we did not buy GW Models.

Although those who did survive, mostly the GW Fanboys were kicked out trying to break some of our [most importantly my wife's] Parthians. The store owner kicked them out, made them pay for the damage to her models, and used their credits to fix the holes in the wall where they threw our models. So now we have 7 boards for Ancients and Historicals and we are growing in number, though the store still sells WHFB/40K. I don't suspect he gets any sales on that.

[Galonthar]

hmm....

I`m not very sure about us here...(here = south of the netherlands)

but I think its staying about the same, we`ve got quite a community at our school (allthouh I don`t battle very often) but I don`t have that much (let alone WH(FB) playing) contact in the lower years of my school,.. so...... I don`t know if there`s great activity there..

[Eldanar]

WHFB = almost non-existent. Way down from a couple of years ago. (Every now and again I see a couple of older guys who play still in their small circle of friends). 3-4 players.

40K = a slight increase or possibly steady. However, still reduced from about 3-4 years ago. 15-20 players.

Our problem is the lack of a decent retailer who actively supports the hobby as well as who actively supports gaming through tournaments, campaigns, events, etc.

[IcedCrow]

Where did all of the players go Eldanar?

[Cigaro]

Lately in Cardiff, there's been a growth. Mostly Ogre players, but that'll do.

[User Name]

we had quite a busy night though the winter here in calgary, but the last couple times i have gone, mabey 2 times in the last 3 months there has hardly been a person there, I suppose I will knoe beter when I go play tomorrow, see if more than one or two people show up, that can be a drag.

[Crazy Harborc]

Well, since GW has more or less pushed the indie stores out of the loop around here, IMHO, the local GW store's number of players "might" be up (as long as they are happy to game what they are allowed to on WHFB night). At the indie stores..........what events?? The tables are still there. At one chain of 8 stores, most of the branchs no longer store GW products, the chain doesn't deal direct with GW anymore.

Over all, Confrontation, War Machine, Starship Trooper, historical wargaming is growing and or still popular(there was a con here a few weeks ago....(NO GW reported there folks)

In the not too distant future, LoTRs sales will slide downward. The number of known (to me) gamers who have said "to hell with GW" has grown from 12 to 20 (took over a year)
By the by, those wargamers DO NOT deal with GW, including the local company store. They are all employed adults that spend $50(USA) or more a month on minies, rules etc.

The local GW store is gaining new customers, kids whose parents do the paying. Oh there is still a cadre of adult WHFB players (drifting away as 4 of us did recently).

[Hercco]

In my old home town, where I still game, the one last Warhammer fantasy player that I know (there might be some others groups) just sold his army. So practically here, WHF is dead.

[Madfool2]

where i am its a mixture swaying more to 40k (i do both 40k and fantasy but going to fantasy)

[Cigaro]

I have been really tempted to play 40k for that reason, but all there is in Cardiff is bloody Ultramarine armies.

[Sentinel75]

Growing here in Raleigh, NC. Couple of new gaming stores, and influx of new people moving in.

[Eldanar]

Where did all of the players go Eldanar?

As for WHFB, most of us play both genre's. However, about 1.5 years ago, people just got extremely burned out on the system, and they just absolutely refuse to play the game at all.

(I know this is a WHFB board, and I could get flamed for this but...) WHFB is simply not a very good system. It is entirely too gimmicky, with uber-combinations and overpowerful characters. Even though 40K is a somewhat streamlined (i.e. dumbed down) version in comparison to WHFB, it is still faster to play, easier to learn, requires fewer miniatures, etc. We simply cannot get people around here to get interested in the system. Most of the die hard players are drifting away from WHFB into Historicals (mainly WAB's).

I've spent the majority of my time collecting Ancients models, and playing 40K and Epic Armageddon (which is an awesome game, by the way).

[IcedCrow]

Wow that's the first time I honestly have heard ubercharacters and combinations being cited as a con for warhammer fantasy since 5th edition!

[leeoaks]

fantasy has dropped big style round by me. the gw store is suffering with the manager who knows everthing and has to prove his lack of skill imo by bigging himself up.sad really fantasy was so big!

[Archaon]

Can't really tell since i game mostly in an already established group of about 10-15 people and of course there is not much movement anymore in the way of brand new armies.

I also don't attend many tournaments to see how much new blood is coming in so i guess it's been steady in my area, maybe even slipping a little because Flames of War is the new thing everyone invests here.

Many are simply put off by the prices but also the power aspect of the games (especially 40K) where you have to play a certain way if you want to have a decent chance of winnig against a tough opponent.

[Eldanar]

Wow that's the first time I honestly have heard ubercharacters and combinations being cited as a con for warhammer fantasy since 5th edition!

Unfortunately, there has been codex creep in this edition, just as prior editions. Couple this with a broken magic system, insane special characters, and too much black powder; as well as some really ponderous movement rules/gimmicks and there is some malcontent.

Granted, these are not necessarily my views, just what I am told by the people who do not play the system any more.

I'm hearing things like:

Empire player - doesn't like playing against unstoppable magic (think HE's, Lizard's or Tzeentch).

TK player - doesn't like auto-kill rule or magic.

Non-TK players - do not like TK army, particularly their special characters or their non-magic magic.

Elf/Lizard players - do not like points cost of units.

VC player - doesn't like the fact that other armies can field characters cheesier than his...

No one likes the Tzeentch staff of doom, except the Chaos players (unless they are of course facing one as well).

The bad thing is, different players dislike different things about the the rules in general, or about another specific army. But almost everything centers around magic, how it is used and/or dispelled, and how magic items combo's or specific items are used on very specific characters (like the Tzeentch staff). But they almost all dislike the system enough to not want to play...