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Thread: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

  1. #1
    Chapter Master anarchistica's Avatar
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    Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    This question could cover either just the rulebook or the rulebook plus all updated army books. Either way, i have some serious doubts about 7th edition. I'll just cover the rulebook here. Things GW can actually change until they've updated all the army books. I'll cover what i think/hope will happen by section.

    Characteristics

    Hopefully they will "fix" the description of Strength. According to the current description, Strength represents how strong a model is. Obviously it should say that Strength represents how much chance a model has of inflicting damage. Skill and the focussing of damage are currently left out while they do play a part.

    Units

    The Base Size and Unit Strength table will be added/updated. Unit definitions can be clarified, perhaps they'll even manage to put all the rules for the different types in one place. Depending on how they organise the book, this section might also cover Swarms and Fast Cavalry and such, though that can be in Special Rules too. In any case, i hope they will give a definition of "Animal" which will be what those Beasts lore spells and Rune of the True Beast and such use.

    The turn

    I don't expect any changes here, perhaps something about when certain effects take place.

    Movement

    Clarified charging rules and perhaps allowing people to march in difficult. I do hope they provide some better rules for terrain, it's far too open now.

    Shooting

    Line of sight should be clarified, especially for Large Targets. Stand and shoot will be clearer, indicating what rules apply (multiple shots) and when exactly those shots are resolved, with whay penalties and when stuff panics. Perhaps even something covering auto-hits?

    Close combat

    The whole fleeing/pursuit/overrun/panic thing will be clarified, along with casualty removal.

    Psychology

    Panic rules that aren't half random, half vague. One range, one unit strength related rule and nothing else. Fleeing units and what rules apply to them clarified as well, the whole banner/fear thing.

    Fear might be adjusted to turn autobreaking into a modifier or requiring more than just a single US of outnumbering. I'm not holding my breath.

    Then there is of course the situation where inherent rules cancel eachother out. They might clarify somehow that Unbreakable/Crazed/Frenzy/Immune to Psychology doesn't take away other Psychology rules the unit has, has at the start of the battle or whatever.

    Weapons

    Little will change. I think the "Parry" rule will turn into a special rule, along with the 2 hand weapon rule. This would make it so much easier and clearer to show what rules affect certain weapons and what don't (hand weapons, pistols, choppas, ogre clubs, wight blades, magic weapons). They could even make halberds and morningstars useful somehow, but i doubt they will. Most weapons from the army books could be in the rulebook, along with some of their special rules, it depends on how GW want to do this.

    Characters

    How characters work with units will be clarified, perhaps they cover the "re-roll rolls that affect the bearer" problem in this section. The 5" rule will be clarified (might work for 'smaller than the size of the unit'). Maybe somehow they finally figure character sniping is bad enough to disallow it so they either change the 5" rule to completely make the character invisible (also for magic), change how cannons work or simply disallow cannonballs to hit US 1 models (pretty please?). The challenge rules can do with alot of updating too. I personally would like to see them removed altogether, along with "look out, sir", but i fear they will just clarify how those D3/6 weapons and such work on champions.

    Generals and battle standards

    Depending on how GW will do this, they might put some rules that apply to Undead and Daemons here. I could see the "Hierophant" being added here, which would cover Vampire Count Generals, TK Liche Priests and such. The rules applying to Undead and Daemonic Battle Standards can be added here too.

    Monsters

    Ridden monsters and templates might change.

    Flyers

    Flying Cavalry might be added here plus perhaps something about flyers that fail their charge.

    Command group

    Their position in the unit and what Champions can and can't do exactly (challenges) might be clarified. Maybe Undead and such get some other benefit from musicians to make up for their lack of fleeing.

    Special rules

    Loads of clarification here. What can be Killing Blow-ed (), Immune to Psychology and other Psychology (might be moved to that section), Poisoned Attacks and 7's to Wound, Regeneration, Flame/Fire, etc. Lots of things can be added from the army books, like Hidden, Assassin, Hit and run, Cold-Blooded, Undead, Daemonic, Random Attacks/Strength, auto-hits, etc.

    Skirmishers

    Charging.

    Fast Cavalry

    Fleeing and auto-rally removed like it is now, maybe characters can shoot too when marching?

    War machines

    Lots of stuff can be done here. Auto-hitting and random hits can be added, Misfire charts made clear, crew/shooting relations made clear, spiking of Hellcannons, etc.

    Chariots

    Difficult terrain, characteristic tests (Initiative) and perhaps even challenges. I'm not expecting but hoping the S7 rule will be removed or changed to make sense. Make it work for Monsters and war machines/ranged attacks but not for those countless vampires and chaos champions with great weapons.

    Buildings

    Scrapped or expended. Warhammer Skirmish/Borderpatrol will likely be part of the rulebook (like Kill Team) so this would tie in with that.

    Magic

    Oh dear. At the very least i think there will be some restrictions on magic. Dice generated by Wizards can only be used by themselves, a dice per turn limit for Wizards or anything like that. The spell list are sure to recieve attention, i suspect GW will manage to balance them a bit more and even make it clear what the spells actually do. Looking at the WE lore, one might expect they will change the spells to be more supportive instead of just being a variation of D6 S4 hits.

    Magic items

    Magic weapons and what rules apply to them will be clarified and hopefully changed so that they count as hand weapons normally (for parrying). The two-handed weapons thing for battle standard bearers will be clarified too.

    The "can't cast while wearing armour" rule can simply be removed as we have the restriction that you can't wear armour unless you have the option to do so. Blood Dragons, Chaos characters, Priests and such all simply ignore this rule. The only case where this rule isn't ignored is with that HE Honour nobody ever uses. The difference between armour and shield will be clarified too. I can see helmets being added as category too, so they don't have to repeat the "can be used with other armour and shields" line every time.

    The common magic items will be changed to make some sense. Better yet, make them part of the army books so you can do different costs for different armies.

    Conclusion

    Of course, this is only what i expect to see, not what will actually happen. However, going by the fact that the rulebook must work with all existing army books and that GW like to stick to the main lines of their current system, i think that even if they change things like characters sniping, auto-destroying chariots, restrict magic and balance the spell lists, the game will still be about cavalry and other things that will always do what you expect of them. I don't think GW will change the basic rules to help infantry, i have my doubts they can make them worth it even with updated army books. Clearer rules and more balance, but still about movement, reliability and staple choices.
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  2. #2

    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    allow ALL swarms to move through woods without penalty, i.e Swarms that fly. Bat's often live and therefore fly through woods and are small enough to justify being allowed to fly through such terain. Just my opinion.

    Improve bow's, halberds and spears.

    Change charging rules to say that you have to bring as many models into contact from BOTH sides.

    Units with more than 'X' unit strength to give positive modifiers to hit from shooting.

    Change auto destroy of S7 against chariots to eother S8 or scrap it.

    Reduce effectiveness of Great Weapons for Characters compared to Magical Weapons which cost a lot more (the main problem being that great Weapons improve you drastically without using up your magic item allowance which you can save for protective items- dont know how you could get round this)

    Probably quite a few other stuff that I cant think of now but only minor changes needed IMO.

  3. #3

    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    I say, bows should always be able to shoot with an extra rank!

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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skinnydookie
    allow ALL swarms to move through woods without penalty, i.e Swarms that fly. Bat's often live and therefore fly through woods and are small enough to justify being allowed to fly through such terain. Just my opinion.
    Isn't there only one flying swarm - the bats? In that case it might be better to fix it through the appropriate army book, rather than the main rulebook (especially as there are no generic swarm rules in existence).
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    Chapter Master StugMeister's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    I'm actually very happy with 6th ed. if anything I'd like GW to make the rulebook clearer with some useful diagrams etc, just like the 40K current book.

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    Chapter Master Nazguire's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    What I'd like to see


    Clarifications in general. Whatever it may be for. Diagrams help, proper descriptions that don't need Sherlock Holmes to embark on a legendary quest to decipher would also help. Whether it be for challenges/command units/wheeling/terrain/LoS etc I don't care. Just make the book as clear as the 40k Rule Book.

    Magic. Currently there is no point taking a Level 1 or Level 3 Wizard as the difference is small and the points cost small for what advantages it gives you. Modify the spell list so that they aren't all magicky pow pow spells and allow the whole co-operation thing to happen. In my opinion, the only spell list that can remain bling bling pow pow is the Lore of Fire.

    Weaponry. Halberds, spears against cavalry, hand weapon and shield etc are all things that in my mind need to be addressed. The Halberd is a multi-purpose weapon and currently it is a 2 handed +1 strength weapon. Yah. Spears against cavalry should have some rules to reflect their long reach and effectiveness at pushing a Man/Elf/Lizard/Goblin/Orc off his horse/Cold one/wolf/pig etc. Shields and Hand Weapons currently represent every Tom, Dick and Harry that after a Sunday roast decided to be able to use the S&HW combo and suddenly become one of the Three Masketeers in their abilities. Change it to something like only models with WS 4 and above may use the bonus or something...?

    That's all I can think of at the moment...
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    Librarian Lafeel Abriel's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Steam tank. Just remove that big block of cheese from the game, even some Empire players dislike it. Gives us a bad name..

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    Chapter Master Lordmonkey's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    A better, balanced magic system where one army doesnt rule the game with total magical power (reference to 5th intended ) I.e. Skaven, orcs and gobbos.

    More emphasis on what the game is really about. A better linked game system would also be interesting.
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    I swear i am the only one who thinks chariots are to hard to kill as it is. All it would take is one dead horse and the thing is useless... but anyways.

    something with the magic system is needed for sure.

    hard to think clearly on others.. what i think is too good my be cause it beats me and what i think is fine might be too good cause it works for me. must think more.

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    Chapter Master Warlord Gnashgrod's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Personally, I would like to see them fix the rule with holding/contesting table quaters.

    Currently, you need to have a unit strength of 5 or more to hold a table quater. But any model that isn't fleeing can contest a table quater, even if it's only unit strength one. This just doesn't seem right to me, and I think it should be changed so that to both hold and/or contest a table quater, unit strength 5 is required. This just makes much more sense to me. Besides, this is how it's done essentially in 40K.
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    I'd really like to see a points-cap for characters
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  12. #12

    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    I would like to see the addition of battlefield formations (loose, wedge, shield wall etc) and the modification of the already mentioned weapons. Here are some rules my group uses in the meantime, if anyone finds them useful:

    Deep Ranks Bows may fire an additional rank deep, but each rank that opts to fire in this way provides one -1 penalty to the entire unit shooting. Bows may not opt to fire in additional ranks if the unit has moved this turn.

    Reach Some weapons can be handled effectively with an extended reach of attack. These polearms (including Spears and Halberds) confer an additional +1 Initiative bonus to any model equipped with them while in combat.

  13. #13
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galadrin
    Reach Some weapons can be handled effectively with an extended reach of attack. These polearms (including Spears and Halberds) confer an additional +1 Initiative bonus to any model equipped with them while in combat.
    Back in the the third edition, a lot of weapons gave the user bonuses or penalties to initiative - these were dropped from the fourth edition in order to simplify up the game.
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    Since World of Warcraft players manage to get themselves killed due to exhaustion, why should Griefbringer not manage to get himself killed with a regiment of table top miniatures. YouŽd be a pioneer.

  14. #14
    Banned Chuffy's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Like many people just more clarification, I know the rules to the game but in those rare cases when something odd pops up it's easy to resolve. Also I'd like to see magic become more supportive or an increase in the character of each lore, i.e. Fire being one of the most agressive lores while Heaven becomes a support lore (unlike the Tactical Nuke delivery system it is now). Plus a change in magic all round, wizords only being able to use the power dice they generate, fixing dispell scrolls so they don't become a compulsory item.

    Fixing some of the weapons that aren't used much. Halberds are tricky because you can't say their spears and also strength increasing weapons, it gets too confsing and would probably make halberds compulsory to take because they'd be so good.

    Also taking some rules from Warhammer Historical, i.e. the different formations and different infantry types. Also implementing the rules for archers being able to fire in one and a half ranks and controlled fall-backs (being able to retreat without being utterly destroyed).

    Changes to warmachines, make cannons unable to hit US1 characters on their own, the cannon ball doesn't just go in a straight line and so would deviate from it's original position, plus what are the crew going to prefer firing at? The huge advancing horde of chosen chaos warriors or the snivelling cloaked chaos sorcerer?

    As loath as I am to say this, being an orc player, but fixing stone throwers so the 'explosion' doesn't ignore armour saves (but keep it strength 4 d6 wounds...). Stone throwers are BEST warmachine in the game, hands down. Cheap, destructive and pretty accurate, they are so good, any army that can take stone throwers should max out on them. Dwarfs having trouble winning? Warriors and stone throwers, always wins.

    Fixing great weapons so they cant be used on horses but on the whole keeping them as they are. I mean they do strike last (laughs because all of his characters have a low initiative anyway).

  15. #15

    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griefbringer
    Back in the the third edition, a lot of weapons gave the user bonuses or penalties to initiative - these were dropped from the fourth edition in order to simplify up the game.
    I know. It just seems one special rule called "Polearms" wouldn't be that complicated. It was weird in 3rd because a lot of weapons had very specific initiative penalties/bonuses. This way there is effectively just one.

  16. #16
    Librarian Cherrystone's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Agree with most things being said perticulary the magic lores just being mobile zap machines (apart from fire) and also the weapon rules which i also like to add that i think hand guns need changing too, maybe having a shorter range of 20" or some sort of misfire (roll of one and then another one) or both.

  17. #17
    Chapter Master Rathgar's Avatar
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Bring back the Winds of Magic Cards!!! We never had any problems with over magiced armies with them. We should return to the glory days of Total Power, Escape and Rebound…
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  18. #18
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuffy
    Fixing great weapons so they cant be used on horses.
    Bretonnian questing knights wouldn't like that...
    Who is Griefbringer? Read his poem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenyu
    Since World of Warcraft players manage to get themselves killed due to exhaustion, why should Griefbringer not manage to get himself killed with a regiment of table top miniatures. YouŽd be a pioneer.

  19. #19
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    Reducing the effectivity of Great Weapons by making them give +1 S only if used on horseback would be a start, no? That way Questing Kights would still be useful.


    And please don't bring back the Wind of Magic Card system! It was *at least* as bad as the current dice based one...

  20. #20
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    Re: Hopes and expectations for 7th edition?

    One thing from me: a generic "strike first" rule - currently we have in different army books half a dozen magic items, special abilities and such that enable to model to strike first in close combat regardless of initiative. Problem being that these tend to have different ways of resolving conflicts when two such abilities meet.
    Who is Griefbringer? Read his poem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenyu
    Since World of Warcraft players manage to get themselves killed due to exhaustion, why should Griefbringer not manage to get himself killed with a regiment of table top miniatures. YouŽd be a pioneer.

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