Cathayan Expeditionaries - Empire Horde

[Mephistofeles]

Fantasy Army: Empire

Ok, about 1½ month ago I posted an Empire Horde army here on Warseer, and got some good points from you guys. That army has now played 20 games, and has lost 2 games, played 5 draws and won 13 games (of which 8 was massacres, 6 of 'em in a row *brag brag*).

Now, I noticed a problem with that army, and that was the lack of serious shooting or any way of dealing with my enemies serious shooting. Since I don't want no gunline, and refuse to take more cannons/mortars or a Helblaster, I figured that I'll try out having Pegasus Captains. That's right, plural, I'll have 2 Pegasus captains, since I'm so damn tired of walking around on the field being pounded by artillery and shooters I can do nothing about.

Now, here comes the list, with changes made for my "new" needs. I have 16 points to spare, what should I do with 'em? Not much to to perhaps, but something? Should I change anything else in the army, is there to much shooting to be fair, to much magic? Something else?

Note: This army is made according to the changes made in the new book, I have taken the rumours in the "Rumour Roundup Thread" as facts, and tailored this list around that.


Wizard Lord 235 p.
Level 4
Dispel Scroll

BSB 189p.
Imperial Banner
Full Plate Armour
Barded Warhorse

Captain 110p
Lance
Fullplate Armour
Enchanted Shield
Pegasus

Captain 110p
Lance
Fullplate Armour
Shield
Pegasus


30 Spearmen 170p
Full Command

10 Free Company 50p
*Detachment*


30 Spearmen 170p
Full Command

10 Free Company 50p
*Detachment*


30 Spearmen 170p
Full Command

10 Free Company 50p
*Detachment*


20 Greatswords 255p
Full Command
War Banner

10 Free Company 50p
*Detachment*


10 Handgunners 80p

10 Handgunners 80p

Great Cannon 100p

Great Cannon 100p


Points: 1984
Models: 179
Units: 11/15
Army Comp: 4680
Power Dice: 6
Dispel Dice: 4

[Von Wibble]

Pegasus captains are surely the first targets for shooting/magic. They have to see the missile unit/ warmachine target for 1 turn before they charge....

I would use the points to get enchanted shield for one of the captains, sigil of sigmar for the other. Alternatively switch the dispel scroll for the rod of power - the 2nd best magic item available to empire imo.

Question - surely both captains have lances???? You haven't written it but its such obvious equipment. My advice assumes you do and forgot to type it.

No cavalry at all...interesting. Maybe knights don't fit in but pistoliers are so good....

Why aren't the handgunners detachments of your greatswords/ spearmen? They get no drawbacks except in deployment and the benefit of stand + shoot and Ld.

[Mephistofeles]

Yeah, I have 30 points to get 'em tooled up with, so I'll probably do as you say. I just wish there was some way to make the pegasus'es live a bit longer, they are so frail, T4 and 3 wounds with no armour...

I hadn't decided on weapons for the captains at all, I didn't quite know if lances were better then halberds, but I guess they are in almost all situations...

I wanted a horde army, I have toyed some with including knights, but they are to expensive, I can get 30 spearmen with full command for the cost of 5 knights+command, I just can't make myself do it.

Pistoliers seem to go down a bit in effectiviness in the new book, and if I take any cavalry, I'll probably take some light cavalry from DoW or something similar.

The Handgunners aren't detachments because with this army, I can't fit them into my battle line, they have to be positioned a bit further away. The army is simply to big for 'em to fit in the main forces set-up. I want as many of the combat-units to be within 12 of the BSB and general, and it's hard enough as it is.

[Mephistofeles]

*bump*

I hate to bump it, but no further suggestions? It looks "good" or is it simply to boring to comment?

[EndlessBug]

one thing, your BSB is on a barded warhorse??? you have no cavalry unit to hide him in, under the new shooting rules he's a goner.

take him of the steed and bung him in the Great swords or something, also I'd lose the pegasus' and use the points gained here on a unit of pistoliers and maybe5 huntsmen if u can afford.

[Neknoh]

Under the new shooting rules, he cannot be targeted if in a unit

[EndlessBug]

that's my point Neknoh, he can't legally join any unit as he has a mount and all his other models are infantry.

[Autobot HQ]

New rules Bug, he can join the unit just fine.

[ardude]

a very solid list.
without steam tank and helblaster ( but if your going to play tournaments with it you simply need a helblaster or 2)

I would IMO rather have sword masters, 4+ save and ws 4 that's simply awsome!.

also I would like 2 see some small units of cafalry ( like 2 times 5).
they could also combine charge with ur commanders or the commanders could simply join the units cafalry.

to get points for this I would get rid of 1 spearman unit.
2 of 30 and a stubbern unit of 20 should be enough

[Mephistofeles]

Well, the Helblaster I don't use for two reasons:

1: It's nothing "Cathayan" about it, my list is too themed for it to work.
2: It's to damn cheesy.

Also, it's too expensive for what it can do, especially now with the new rules where it has to roll BS for it's shots.

The Cavalry can't really do anything my infantry can't do, except flank good. That is however not really needed, since the Detachments always give me that flanking bonus anyway. Well, most of the time that is...

You are however perfectly right that the swordsmen would be a much better choice, but I just don't like 'em. Plus they would set me back almost 100 points, which I simply cannot afford.

EndlessBug: Loose the Pegasus? Why ever would I want that? It's the only two war-machine/shooterhunters I've got...

[ardude]

but what if enemy cafalry charges your detachmants?
if you got cafalry you can use that as a threat so he won't move close.
also you could leap over a flank with 2 small units

[Mephistofeles]

Well, if he charges my detachments, they flee as a charge reaction, he get's a failed charge and is then left standing in front of my whole army with his cavalry...

And as far as flanking goes, that won't work unless he is a really inexperienced player and allows 'em to go around on his flanks without shooting them or dispatching something to deal with them. And 5 knights ar far to easy to deal with for their points, and in a Horde army they could never get enough support.

[Ender Shadowkin]

Well, the Helblaster I don't use for two reasons:

1: It's nothing "Cathayan" about it, my list is too themed for it to work.
...

The Hellblaster may not be Cathayan, but the rumored rocket launcher sure is (or at least a rocket team)

Scouts are also good for taking down warmachines . . . But Your list looks generally good and ballanced It should do well even agains heavy Missile armies. You have a lot of troops to absorbe damage!

[showmydog]

Nice to see some spearmen represented i don't really find other empire players who use them.

1) is the imperial banner entirely necessary?
2) Could you free up the points to give on captain the 'sword of fate'

I understand your need to avoid cheese, i'm making an araby force (thats right even less blackpowder) and i've been having great fun finding new ways to deal with big things and other nastys.

Let Every man's effort count,
The Empire will prevail.

[Teach]

Great list to play (Very Skaven like). Boring to paint, i think. Don't throw your captains to quickly to the front. But i tink you know that. I really had trouble with playing empire in the tournament. To much of everything. Have fun.

[Mephistofeles]

Ender Shadowkin: Yeah, the Rocker Launcher is as Cathayan as it gets! I will check it out as soon as the book is out, to see if it's worth while. It will absolutely be included in a future 2500 or 3000 points list at the very least!

Showmydog: The Imperial Banner has saved my sorry horde ass several times, and I think it will save me even more now that the highest LD in the army is 8. I have a terrible nack for making terrible Psychology Rolls, so I really need to minimize the importance of such rolls.
I don't want to kit out the captains with too much fancy equipment, since they already are the prime target for all my enemies shooters and mages. I expect them to die.

Teach: Thank you I won't throw 'em out, but if facing a very shooty force, they will probably try to get to their lines as soon as possible, but I will try to move them under cover from terrain as far as possible.