Re-inventing Squats Concept Art

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeah, what Destecado said!

However, I think that if your helmet's faceplate has infra-red/night vision built into it you won't need a searchlight to GIVE YOUR POSITION AWAY in combat.

While it's an interesting touch, it's also utterly silly. Torches on your rifle is bad enough, but if you can just wear infrared or NVG's then there's no need for the torch. IMO.

[Destecado]

Yeah, what Destecado said!

However, I think that if your helmet's faceplate has infra-red/night vision built into it you won't need a searchlight to GIVE YOUR POSITION AWAY in combat.

UV and systems like starlight scopes still rely upon an available light sorce. if none is present or it is too dim, detection might be difficult. At times like this, you would need a light source. Having it operate in the UV range would allow it to avoid easy visual detection...unless your enemy sees in UV I guess.

[Zedric]

True, and I think the Grymm would be a nice base to work with. I just think their helmets would need to modified and some GS work done.

Awww, I love the Grymn heavy infantry enviro-suit helms the best. Actually, the light infantry helms even leave the lower face conspicuously vacant for bearding, if one were inclined to do so (which I'm not).

[Easy E]

Some of this was covered a while ago in the Varingr thread, but I'll re-tread some of it since that thing is huge.

The Varingr built off of existing human technology and STC designs. Yes, they are more advanced technologically and tend to innovate much more, but the design basics are there. So, a Bolter will still have the same general concepts and ideas of a bolter, but with improved targeting, smoother loading, lighter materials, simpler to maintain, etc. When it comes to vehicles, the shapes would be altered and made more modern, weapon systems modified to fit their needs, easier maintaince, etc. They are not light years ahead of the Imperium or the Tau in design. They live in a middle world where the technology level of the two meet.

As for design asthetics, do we just want short modern humans? If that's what we want, okay. Why even have a dwarven archetype in space if we completely disregard every aspect of it? Other than being short, what will make them visually unique from every other sci-fi wargame out there? Cause that's what I see with the Grymm, if they weren't short they could be any generic Sci-fi army. I'm not demanding beards, axes, Easter Egg Exo-armor, and rhinos for all, but I think we can use the old concepts as a starting off point and progress naturally forward. Steampunk is not a necessity, but it's a point where people can start at.

I find the Stars and Bars a very humano-centric idea. These aren't short guardsman, they are Varingr. Granted horns may not be the best option, but we could also use stylized face plates, ridges, raised etchings, etc. Remember, we want them to have a distinct look as models in 40K.

Lastly, the guys are part of the 40K universe. "In the dark future there is only war" and all that. We want this things to look unique but to meld with the 40K universe of "dark and gritty". (Insert Tau retort here) Let's face it, modern sensabilities do not live in the 41st Millenium. We need to tackle them from the 40K frame of mind, and that's a balance between practicality, rule of cool, grittyness, solid workmanship, and lived in.

Finally, I am assuming that the Varingr will have some level of auto-senses built into their visors. I just thought that a spotlight on their chestplate could look kinda cool in a design sense. I agree that on the helmet is more practical, but that makes the model's head look clunky, if I choose to ornament the helmet.

@Destecado- Your line art is very clean. However, it seems a bit fragile in design. The first drawing of the one-man hover cycle seems like a good concept for a new and improved Gyro-copter. I agree that ducted air will fit the Varingr very well.

[Gen.Steiner]

The Varingr built off of existing human technology and STC designs. Yes, they are more advanced technologically and tend to innovate much more, but the design basics are there. So, a Bolter will still have the same general concepts and ideas of a bolter, but with improved targeting, smoother loading, lighter materials, simpler to maintain, etc. When it comes to vehicles, the shapes would be altered and made more modern, weapon systems modified to fit their needs, easier maintaince, etc. They are not light years ahead of the Imperium or the Tau in design. They live in a middle world where the technology level of the two meet.

Indeed. So are we assuming that they use bolters as standard? It would make sense...

As for design asthetics, do we just want short modern humans? If that's what we want, okay. Why even have a dwarven archetype in space if we completely disregard every aspect of it? Other than being short, what will make them visually unique from every other sci-fi wargame out there? Cause that's what I see with the Grymm, if they weren't short they could be any generic Sci-fi army.

I think we want short humans - after all, don't they see themselves as the Real Humans? I'd argue that if we give them Rhinos and stuff, as well as their own unique vehicles (turbo-jet VTOL strike craft, for eg), the Grymn work quite well. Their look is already vastly different to everything else in 40K - and I reckon we can build on that. Clean lines, tough builds. Think Tau, but tougher, squarer, and much, much cooler.

I find the Stars and Bars a very humano-centric idea. These aren't short guardsman, they are Varingr. Granted horns may not be the best option, but we could also use stylized face plates, ridges, raised etchings, etc. Remember, we want them to have a distinct look as models in 40K.

Their uniforms would be individualised. Why would they even have rank badges? They KNOW who's older, who's in charge, etc etc - they're basically a family of soldiers/mercenaries.

[Easy E]

They may see themselves as the real humans... but their not homo sapiens anymore. After 20 Millenia or so of Isolation from humanity, I thought they might evolve the culture a bit more than your basic generic Sci-Fi army.

I look forward to seeing your painted Grymm, General. I also agree with your point about knowing who is in charge by their individualized uniform. All I'm suggestion is that the indivualization would extend to their helmet.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9688/clanca3nc3.th.png

Is this guy's helmet to over the top?

[Easy E]

Here's something I did at work on the basic windows paint program.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7...sca6hn9.th.png

This is a concept for a relatively young Varingr in basic work cover-alls. You can see some of the things I think the would possess: bushy eyebrows, a deep brow line, and very square jaw. Their shoulders would be broad, and they would possess little if any neck.

I also put the Egyptian style beard on him for this pic, but you can get a pretty good idea of what he would look like without it.

[Destecado]

@Destecado- Your line art is very clean. However, it seems a bit fragile in design. The first drawing of the one-man hover cycle seems like a good concept for a new and improved Gyro-copter. I agree that ducted air will fit the Varingr very well.

I'll respond to the rest later, but I did want to clear up one misconception. The two images that I linked are not my artwork. They are merely examples from the anime Megazone 23...part 2 IIRC. I agree that the design is a little fragile. We will have to beef it up a little and add other "gubbins" to use an orky term.

The Varingr built off of existing human technology and STC designs. Yes, they are more advanced technologically and tend to innovate much more, but the design basics are there. So, a Bolter will still have the same general concepts and ideas of a bolter, but with improved targeting, smoother loading, lighter materials, simpler to maintain, etc. When it comes to vehicles, the shapes would be altered and made more modern, weapon systems modified to fit their needs, easier maintaince, etc. They are not light years ahead of the Imperium or the Tau in design. They live in a middle world where the technology level of the two meet.

I have begun to question whether the Varingr would have STC technology…bear with me. My thought is that the Varingr exodus may have predated the emergence of the STC systems. Based on what we have discussed previously, the Varingr left the solar system prior to the development of warp travel (by humans any way). Would the STCs have been available prior to the advent of warp travel?

Based on the Iron Men and Stone Men fluff (dubious though some believe it to be), stone men are the ones who took the Golden Men to the stars…most likely by means of warp capable ships. Little is ever said about how they came to dominate space travel and became the only outlet for expansion into space. Look at our own planet. We are fractious with different cultures going in multiple directions, usually ending up being at odds with each other.

Before the Stone Men could forge the first galactic empire, they would need to unite the disparate cultures of the earth. One way to do this is to control the information. The STC in a way is a form of control. You give someone a database, which is purported to give them the knowledge they need to build just about anything. Where is the incentive to waste time, resources and money on technology that someone is willing to give to you?

By controlling the flow of information, you also gain a foothold on how people think or interact with the technology. Take for example the early internet and the multitude of computer languages that existed. It was difficult for many systems to talk to each other. Although many competitors accuse Microsoft of having a monopoly on the business, it is hard to imagine the internet existing as it does today without a major player that dominated the market with a specific platform or system architecture.

It brought continuity; a common ground. Game makers began to write programs and games for the new operating system that was simple and easy to use…without needing vast knowledge of computer programming. The STC similarly made the highest advances in technology available to the masses. They did not need fancy degrees and knowledge, they need only tell the system what they needed and it would make it for them.

What is the cost for this technology? At first possibly nothing, but over time people become dependent upon it. There might also be certain information that is not accessible, unless the governments or individuals register or complete some kind of contract with the provider. Governments may be forced into treaties or to give concessions over trade or land in return for higher technology (i.e. fusion reactors, lasgun technology, etc.) In this way, the stone Men may have over time taken control of the world, uniting it under a single power…theirs.

The Varingr leaving may have directly related to this. Being as they lived in the asteroid belt or beyond as miners, this unification movement may have come to them later. They were for all intensive purposes out on the frontier. As civilization and unification under the single authority pushed closer, they may have decided to move on to greener pastures…in this case a new star system where they could be free.

This would give us a more moderate build to the technological level of the Varingr. It could also help explain why the Adeptus Mechanicus did not just try to wipe them out to get a hold of their STCs, which they probably may have still had in their strongholds.

As for design asthetics, do we just want short modern humans? If that's what we want, okay. Why even have a dwarven archetype in space if we completely disregard every aspect of it? Other than being short, what will make them visually unique from every other sci-fi wargame out there?

Personally, I have always thought that dwarves in space were as stupid as elves in space. I along with other members of the ASP (Anargo Sector Project) have worked to make the Eldar much more than elves in space. I think we are striving here to do the same with squats (Varingr). If you want to make your Varingr more like Fatasy Dwarves, by all means do so. I just want to stress, that I do not want to pigeonhole all of the Varingr into that single archetype. As there are great differences in the various Space Marine Chapters or in IG units that come from various worlds, there should be the potential of great differences between the various Clans of Varingr. They need not be monolithic in their culture or society. If they were, then why would there need to be a differentiation between different clans and affiliations?

…but I think we can use the old concepts as a starting off point and progress naturally forward. Steampunk is not a necessity, but it's a point where people can start at.

That is what we are trying to do…we're just not reaching as far back as fantasy to do so. I am working on an updated version of the epic airships. Dirigibles just seem too hokey and archaic for 40k. Is anyone familiar with the graphic novel Red Star? They have these great flying ships that for me, what a Varingr airship should look like. For those unfamiliar with the Red Star, the following link is to a PDF which has some good images and information about the skyships (from red Star) so you can get an idea of what I am referring to.

Skyfurnace

I find the Stars and Bars a very humano-centric idea. These aren't short guardsman, they are Varingr. Granted horns may not be the best option, but we could also use stylized face plates, ridges, raised etchings, etc. Remember, we want them to have a distinct look as models in 40K.

They are ab-humans. The idea of High Tech humans…what would be called typical sci-fi is absent from the Sci-fantasy universe of 40k. I think it would be refreshing to see such a culture. Still as I conceded above, there is just as much room for more dwarvish looking Varingr. I just feel that we should not make the two mutually exclusive. I guess if you want an update of fantasy armor in sci-fi, you should look at somethinglike the Necromonger from the Chronicles of Riddick.

Lastly, the guys are part of the 40K universe. "In the dark future there is only war" and all that. We want this things to look unique but to meld with the 40K universe of "dark and gritty". (Insert Tau retort here) Let's face it, modern sensabilities do not live in the 41st Millenium. We need to tackle them from the 40K frame of mind, and that's a balance between practicality, rule of cool, grittyness, solid workmanship, and lived in.

Ok…and? I don’t view the Varingr as being warlike per se. They just want to be left alone. It has been that way since they first left the Sol system. They want their freedom to think what they want and do what they want. This does not mean that they are not able to protect themselves. War however is not the end all be all of their existence as it is with many of the Imperial organizations or species such as orks.
This is also going to mean that the formalized military of each stronghold is going to vary. I see each Varingr having to serve in the military of the stronghold. Service is mandatory. The time of service might vary from stronghold to stronghold as might the levels of active duty troops. Some may rely on reserves or volunteers called up in times of danger, while others may maintain an active military force of thousands. Then there is the level of automation of the various forces to consider.

Finally, I am assuming that the Varingr will have some level of auto-senses built into their visors. I just thought that a spotlight on their chestplate could look kinda cool in a design sense. I agree that on the helmet is more practical, but that makes the model's head look clunky, if I choose to ornament the helmet.

Why does it need to look chunky? It need not be something as big as a flashlight attached to the helmet. It also does not need to be a single light source. Look at LED technology as an example. A bank of LEDs set above and back of the visor rim would cast a cone of light in front of the Varingr while maintaining a low silhouette

[Acolyte of Bli'l'ab]

The link didn’t work, but I’m familiar with the Sontarans. I’m a little leery of the upside down fruit bowl helmets with eye slits…at least for ground forces. Something like that might work for vac-suits. Rather than being solid metal like the Sontarans, it could instead be made of made of a polarize plastic material. Although it appears opaque on the outside, It is transparent on the inside. This increases the Varingr’s field of vision while suited up.

Yeah, the upside-down fruit bowel helmets wouldnt work, but their basic jumpsuit type costume would. Mix it with a helmet style of what you said below and perhaps add tubes on the VAC-suit, and it would look pretty good I think.

For normal ground units, I was picturing something that looked a little like this:

http://www.japanese-armor.com/images...cts/ah2314.jpg

I like that look, it could definitly be modified to look more sci-fi and I think it would well for NGU's. Best idea for the Varingr yet IMO. It would look unique enough which is what it needs, as alot of peoples ideas look too much like short-imperial guard and I think the Varingr should be more unique in their look. Good work.

[Easy E]

@Destecado- Good post. A lot of it should go into the Death of the Squats thread also. It seems like your take has the Varingr are a bit like Eldar exodites. They chose to leave Terra and her sphere of influence before the STC, instead of being colonies sponsored by Terra. That would put a different spin on their technology for sure and completely justifies a new look.

When I approached re-imagining the Squats, I was looking to take what was existing, modify it to more current fluff, expand on it logically, remove silliness, and go forward. It seems many people just want to scrap what was and start from fresh. That's where some of the idea friction comes from.

As far as the warrior nature of the Varingr, their history (again using Squat history as a basic framework) would lead me to believe they became militaristic to survive. Not as much as their society revolves around warfare, but it is a very important and relevant influence.

@Acoltye- I agree that they should not look like short IG. However, that's the hard part. One aspect I think about is that I will want to create model's in the future. How do I build off what is all ready in the range to get where I want to go?

Here's some more sketches and junk.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4...nca7xt8.th.png

I didn't really bother cleaning them up any.

[Destecado]

@Destecado- Good post. A lot of it should go into the Death of the Squats thread also. It seems like your take has the Varingr are a bit like Eldar exodites. They chose to leave Terra and her sphere of influence before the STC, instead of being colonies sponsored by Terra. That would put a different spin on their technology for sure and completely justifies a new look.

I’ll repost it in the “Backgrounds” Forum thread…along with a couple of amendments based on some thoughts I’ve had since originally writing it. I would not say that they are really like the exodites (although I can see where some of the parallels can be made. I think however that they more embody the pioneer spirit of humanity; the rugged individualism. They like any other pioneers finally faced the encroachment of civilization. Rather than succumb to this encroachment, they instead decided to “move on to greener pastures”, where they could again put the “civilized world” behind them.

Please don’t take this to mean that they were not civilized. It was more a rejection of main stream society, that told you what to do, what to be and what to think. It was a rejection of the laws, and restrictions and all the B.S. Those societies need laws and contracts, because they couldn’t trust each others word. They were always trying to get a leg up on each other and stab each other in the back. They also needed police to protect them, because they wouldn’t or couldn’t protect themselves. They traded in their freedom and self sufficiency for security and stability.

When I approached re-imagining the Squats, I was looking to take what was existing, modify it to more current fluff, expand on it logically, remove silliness, and go forward. It seems many people just want to scrap what was and start from fresh. That's where some of the idea friction comes from.

I am not trying to scrap the entire concept. I still want them to be shorter than standard humans. Seriously though, the old fluff was not very good. I am trying to keep the spirit of the squats without making them comical caricatures. I am also trying to find their soul. They can be so much more than just space dwarves.

As far as the warrior nature of the Varingr, their history (again using Squat history as a basic framework) would lead me to believe they became militaristic to survive. Not as much as their society revolves around warfare, but it is a very important and relevant influence.

I totally agree. This is not to say that they might not squabble amongst themselves…after a hard days work, they might blow off some steam by getting into a bar room brawl. They are however not trying to kill each other. Weapons in such brawls are generally frowned upon.

[Easy E]

I was playing around here: http://www.ugo.com/channels/comics/h...romachine2.asp

and came up with these:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6...akerwy3.th.png

The Heromaker has been around for a long time, but sure is fun.

[Lockjaw]

I like the one with the eyepach

[Gen.Steiner]

On a general point: I've been painting Varingr today. Well, a Varingr...

Green bodysuit, green-khaki armour, brown boots and gloves, and very small intricate paintwork on the armour which will be hellish to paint...!

[Easy E]

Sweet, can't wait to see them!

Anybody have any ideas about what kind of symbols they would use. I'm talking more about concepts that would appear regularly in their culture and artwork. Like in the U.S. the Eagle and the Flag are common. I would like to move away from axes and faces of the ancestors, but I'm not sure where to look for inspiration.

[Gen.Steiner]

I was going to use runes... wasn't sure what else to be honest. Hammers?

[Easy E]

I think runes and hammers still work. The Axes not so much, and anvil maybe, I think I heard someone mentioning Runes that look like circuit boards?

[Dr Death]

Just to throw in a quick comment. The one thing that immediately struck me seeing your concepts Easy E is just how un-dwarf-like they are. I think you really have to get back to the comical physique of the dwarves/squats in order to retain their identity as more than just bearded sci-fi men of which there are more than a few.

Dont take this the wrong way but bringing back the bulging guts, the thick arms and the almost non-existant legs is one of the things that imho needs to happen.

Dr Death

[Lockjaw]

I don't think you have to go as far as beer guts and non existant legs, look at WOW dwarfs, they look like dwarves without being too comical, or like gotrek art on the BL novels covers, he's like a short mass of muscle, and definatley doesn't look too goofy. I think shortness and beards would be good enough, just because they're a dwarf archtype doesn't mean they have to be goofy

on another point, here's a pic i found that looks cool without really changing the original squat look too much, see, if it's done right, dwarves in power armor don't look so bad lol

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/...+age_scale%3A5

[Daemon king Mad Dog]

Why do people want to re-invent squats! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! *Jumps off a tall buidling obnto a crashmat* he he that was fun...