Re-inventing Squats Concept Art

**akamanah** · 01-02-2007, 03:21

I have a question for all of you concerning female squats. Beard or no? I mean if you want to go traditional dwarf, the females should have beards too and only the males seem to be able to tell the difference. On the other hand visually if you want to distinguish them from the basic male they should be more feminine and that means no beard. How do the rest of you feel about this?

**Sai-Lauren** · 01-02-2007, 10:59

Originally Posted by akamanah

I have a question for all of you concerning female squats. Beard or no? I mean if you want to go traditional dwarf, the females should have beards too and only the males seem to be able to tell the difference. On the other hand visually if you want to distinguish them from the basic male they should be more feminine and that means no beard. How do the rest of you feel about this?

No to beards on women, GW's own female dwarven figures don't have beards (there's Queen Helga, plus a couple of really old ones from the Dwarven Vilagers range - Stuff of Legends may have pictures of them, I'll see if I can locate them), same for the Grymm (Hasslefree).

Besides, Terry Pratchett would probably sue - I've a feeling he's the main one who has bearded Dwarven women.

Edit: Numbers 8 and 27 here - might not be too clear.

**intellectawe** · 01-02-2007, 20:54

No, Dungeons and Dragons is the main perpetrator of bearded dwarven women. Ack!

**Lockjaw** · 01-02-2007, 23:13

I don't think D&D does bearded dwarf women anymore, anyway, i think it originated with Tolkien, i'm pretty sure there was breif mention in one of the books about dwarf women having beards, eitherway, i personally prefer no beards on females, beards on males.

and i like the dreadlock idea

**Sai-Lauren** · 02-02-2007, 12:39

Actually, an even better reason why the Varingyr women shouldn't have beards.

They are still basically genetically human - facial hair is a by-product of testosterone, and the women, even though they may be short, stocky, tough as nails, able to lift pit-ponies above their heads one handed and can drink most "real" humans under the table without having to take a single bathroom break, don't really have a lot of it.

Another thing is, what build should they have (male and female)? I did postulate that the survivors of the scouring are likely to be on the utter edge of starvation, so whilst they may have grown up with plenty of food, now they won't have very much at all, most of what they do have will likely go to the infirm and the children (although I can see them being quite ruthless and not wasting food on anyone who is unlikely to survive), and the rest could be getting thin and quite emaciated, although they'll still have the bone structure and general build of their lives before.

**PondaNagura** · 02-02-2007, 14:41

if they were that bereft of food, how would they be able to survive and fight a as race. if anything, while still in their prime they would attack backwater imperial outposts, or perhaps enemy outposts for supplies. maybe they built up a tolerance for 'nid meet (i'm only joking).

**intellectawe** · 02-02-2007, 15:18

So you guys have turned the Squats into 6 foot tall muscular starving men?

**Sai-Lauren** · 02-02-2007, 16:03

Originally Posted by intellectawe

So you guys have turned the Squats into 6 foot tall muscular starving men?

Erm, no.

Think of it this way - the planets they settled weren't exactly garden worlds to start with, the majority of the hydroponics plants are either destroyed or damaged and what's left has to be harvested carefully to ensure it's long term viability (no sense eating well today if you starve the rest of the week), most of the freighters which would have brought in food are either lost, converted into auxilary warships or are carrying refugees from the worlds that are lost, and supply lines are tempramental at best.

If they need 2000 calories a day, maybe the soldiers are only getting 1700-1800 - with dietary supplements (vitamins for example) where possible - enough to keep them going in the field, but without diverting significant resources from the civilian population, and the civilians maybe only 1400-1600 with priority going to those who really need it (some would probably give up some of that days food to give to another). They'll still have their basic shape (say about 5 foot tall and stocky) - that's set by their diets pre-scouring - but they'll be verging on malnourished, dehydrated (water's gone too), susceptible to diseases (although their natural hardiness helps) and so on. Maybe I did go a little too far in my earlier post, but hollow cheeks, sunken eyes, pallid skins and empty bellies would be the order of the day for most of them.

Maybe they did hide some food away in case of long sieges and crop failures, and they certainly would be raiding to capture supplies, as well as getting paid in food/hydroponic supplies/cattle for any mercenary work they do. But considering what they've lost and the numbers they have to feed, it's barely enough as it is - they're not experiencing a full-on, "call Bob Geldof and Sting" scale famine, but it wouldn't take a lot to put them there.

**Lockjaw** · 02-02-2007, 22:37

to be honest, i'd say not all of them would be starving, i think you'd have mining fleets that were off looking for asteroids when the homeworlds were attacked, and the ships would probably hav hydroponics (just seeing how A; they seem like they'd be a very practicle culture, and B: ships in 40k are huge)

plus, since GW never really got into too much detail beyond "tyranids ate them all, now shut up" and just came up with that too stop people from asking about it, there could possibly be surviving strongholds, maybe some areas the tyranids never got too (seeing how they'd pass by all these other imperial worlds to get to the homeworlds)

last thing there wasn't 100% serious, just saying the tyranid attacking isn't something so fleshed out, you can't work around it

**Easy E** · 03-02-2007, 09:40

I would imagine that some survivor fleets/Strongholds would be rather thin in the food department, but that Hydroponic capabilities would be the first order of the day. I would imagine, that they have just enough food to scrape by on a daily basis, but extraordinary resource use, such as a military campaign would strain them.

So they are probably fit, with little or no fat, however they would still have their stocky, muscular build. On campaign thought, their food resources would be stretched and hollowed eyes and sunken cheeks would not be uncommon.

A question on weapons/imagery- Does anyone else feel that riot/combat shields would be appropriate or is it too dwarfish?

**PondaNagura** · 04-02-2007, 02:33

actually considering the lack of expendable numbers, i'd almost imagine more of a "robot" force to use...assuming they'd have the tech to use them, or at least a servitor basis...though maybe not human servitors, or servitors of another kind.

**juddski** · 04-02-2007, 10:43

i was thinking some thing similar on anothersite(WIP) i know they the helm needs to change a bit(more dwarfish on the front)
?
i know they look like marines but at the time of drawing them i wanted the impression that they were working for the imperium (sort of survivors of their race)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/GDLsquat.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...Lsquatswip.jpg

i'm thinking maybe with a helm design change to more dwarfish and make 'em wider? .maybe some thing like saltys resperator thingy ?

i also think female dwarfs shouldn't have beards ,just be as ugly as their menfolk but with boobs?

**Easy E** · 04-02-2007, 12:35

Originally Posted by PondaNagura

actually considering the lack of expendable numbers, i'd almost imagine more of a "robot" force to use...assuming they'd have the tech to use them, or at least a servitor basis...though maybe not human servitors, or servitors of another kind.

I thought about robots as well, but dismissed true AI for a more limited remote operated or restricted program type construct. The reason is that the Squats/Varingr are abhumans from the Age of Strife, therefore they would also have the mythology/history of the Iron versus stone men. This would limit their interest in AI tech in a similar way to that of the Imperium.

I saw the Squats/Varingr using limited robotics/programming to create weapon systems similar to dreads and killer kans. No Varingr would be needed, but their battlefield decision making would be limited.

**PondaNagura** · 05-02-2007, 21:04

oh i wasn't thinking of Iron men so much, as just simple servitude robots. perhaps have some representation of an engineseer or some such to "facilitate" the robot's decisions...though maybe not actually in game terms to program them like the old 2nd edition, more like "robots may only be taken if soNso unit is also present on the table".

**Lockjaw** · 05-02-2007, 21:53

kind of like the old ork tinboyz?

**juddski** · 05-02-2007, 22:26

Originally Posted by PondaNagura

oh i wasn't thinking of Iron men so much, as just simple servitude robots. perhaps have some representation of an engineseer or some such to "facilitate" the robot's decisions...though maybe not actually in game terms to program them like the old 2nd edition, more like "robots may only be taken if soNso unit is also present on the table".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/SuatTech.jpg

some thing like this?

or have i missed the point completly??

**PondaNagura** · 06-02-2007, 04:08

it's a start

**juddski** · 06-02-2007, 09:06

Originally Posted by PondaNagura

it's a start

my veiw on the squats
our ancestors wore plaits and painted wold? on their bodies but that dosen't mean WE still have to ,even tho we're aware of old fashions we evolve and so i think the squats should/would ,personally i see them with no hair (shaven,easy maintenace for space travel ) but retaining the moustach as a mark of respect ,also i think the beer belly should go for a more fitter and healthier looking squat with attitude ,i hate the way GW led them down the biker weeeeeeeeeeheeeeeee road and made them a joke the same as the orks/grechins/goblin IMHO

**Sai-Lauren** · 07-02-2007, 10:55

Originally Posted by Lockjaw

to be honest, i'd say not all of them would be starving, i think you'd have mining fleets that were off looking for asteroids when the homeworlds were attacked, and the ships would probably hav hydroponics (just seeing how A; they seem like they'd be a very practicle culture, and B: ships in 40k are huge)

True, but a mining vessel would have enough supplies for the whole crew for anticipated duration of the mission, plus a safety margin (maybe 5%), and the rest of the space would be given over to storage and processing - even living quarters would be minimal (and they could be sleeping almost on top of some of the supplies).
The ship could have 105 man-years of supplies (100 crew, one year mission duration + emergency contingency rations), but distribute that between the population of a stronghold, and it'll last a month at best - if it's especially populous, it could be as little as a mouthful of food each.