Taktika: Orks

[psykochiken]

Well, I have seen a real surge in interest in orks recently (or maybe I just noticed the already present trend).

Anyway, I looked around, and there is no ork taktika!!! This is very distressing for me as I wish to play orks. There are several threads about specific units, and the "who loves orks thread", which I recommend for great modeling stuff, but we need a taktika and so here it is (soon) allow me to break the ice by saying this


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaa........aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa .....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaagh


Just some ground rules and general statements
1) No GW hates orks rants longer than 3 lines of text
2) Taktiks? wutz' Taktiks? taktiks is dem wayz yoo kill dem oter boyz (forgive my terrible orkish)
3) The Other tacticas are kind of hard to wade through, so there should be some kind of organization here
Any suggestions are appreciated. (Seriously please I can't organize anything) I plan to edit this first post to show advice by category (unit type, general, how to speak ork, etc.) If I do not include your part it is because it is a repeat or I forgot, feel free to PM me, although I can't promise response time (the buttons keep moving)
4) Do any mods want to I don't know sponsor this or something, to make it legit

And finally allow me to say that this is not going to be any kind of taktika without allot of people's help, so thanks in advance!!! I hope this proves helpful to lots of people in the future. Whew that was long-winded

[Zedric]

Sadly, I have no real advice to give, but I want to show my support for this thread.

So... how 'bout them Death Skullz?

[psykochiken]

The suport is apreciated I hope this gets off the ground soon at least now i know someone cares

I thought i would add some links given to me by The Song of Spears, and sittingduck
www.the-waaagh.com
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33080

and the best taktika i have found
http://www.tauonline.org/ViewContent.php?id=136

edit: i know there is another thread titled ork tactica, but it is a little too specific, and not nearly as long as the other tacticas

[Groksnag]

IMO, there really is only 1 orky taktik. charge em screaming "waaagh!" the entire way.

[Seth the Dark]

All I have to say is that two full units of Boarboyz in a Snakebite list is really hard hitting.

[Triple_Vision]

I'm perhaps not the best possible contributor to this worthy discussion, since I've never actually played with Orks yet (just building my army now). But I do have a few thoughts and ideas, mostly stolen from others, that may be useful.

Personally, I'm not a believer in the standard "March of the Sluggas" across the table. There's just so many armies out there that can shoot them to pieces and run circles around them before they'll have any chance to inflict damage. A footslogging assault is also awfully boring and it's simply depressing seeing your boyz shot down like flies before they do anything. KFFs may help here a little, but less so if there's decent cover on the table.

Then there is of course the great grot screen, but I wouldn't put too much faith in these. Sure, a hundred grots will bog down the enemy for a good long while, but who really wants to buy, paint and move that many powerless models that get mowed down by the first angry glance that comes their way?

Of course you could always use some bikes to kick up dust, but this seems like a fragile shield. 30 points seems like a lot for something that dies almost as fast as any old ork. To me, ork warbikes look more like a fast, shooty hammer and should be used as such.

Among my musings regarding my new Orks, I’ve thought of three army types that seem interesting, though I have yet to test their effectiveness. The first is the classic ‘Fast Assault’ list filled with things that move 24” or more, putting serious pain right in the opponent’s face before they know what hit ‘em. KoS is of course the king of this field, though it might work with a generic list as well. Maybe with Evil Sunz for a less extreme approach? In both of these, I really like the idea of a warboss on a bike with a power klaw. Six S10 attacks and T5 on a unit that can move 24” (and can get a 3+ invulnerable save if he does)

The second concept I’ve come up with is the “Dakka Storm” using generic rules or Bad Moonz. This list calls for lots and lots of big shootas (on either shoota boyz or flash gitz) that will rain lead on the opposition from highly mobile firebases. Add some kannons for support, maybe a few warbikes, and possibly some mega blastas. If you like mercs, drop in a few kroot snipers.

The third idea I’ll call the “Ard as Iron” approach, which calls for such a ridiculous amount of armor-plated goodiness that no army will find enough lascannons for it all. Just start with some kans, looted tanks, maybe a battlewagon or two, plus a few ‘ard boyz and mega-armored nobs for flavor. You do run out of heavy support choices pretty quick with this plan though, so it might be best for small games.

[Irondog]

The "March of the Sluggas" can be shot to peices if that's all you use. Same goes for "Fast Assault". Any of these tactics can be countered depending on your opponents army and his grasp of how his army works, and how best to take out yours. The key to winning is to use a combination of the tactics so your army isn't a one-trick-pony.

The best thing about the Ork list is the fact your units are cheap, so you can use all of the above options in one army. Your opponent will have a variety of threats staring him in the face. Also don't discount the grot screen or the KFF, they are awesome if used correctly.

Grots aren't soley used for the abilities they show in the book. Sure cover saves, re-rolling difficult terrain checks, and mine clearance are handy but grots really shine when used as a speed bump. Use them in front as an assault screen against close-combat armies. The big nasties that excel in assaults will have to hit your grot screen first, giving your sluggas the charge in your turn. I have personally wiped a Khorne Berserker unit and a tooled up Demon Prince off the map in one turn using this tactic.

KFF's are best used to shield Killa Kanz and other armor as your cruise up the field firing away. Give the Mek/Big Mek tools and oilers as well and any damage your 'ard stuff takes can be easily fixed. This moving wall is another great way to keep your sluggas safe.

However, the best way to keep the guns off your main mass of troops is to give the opposing army something else to worry about. Infiltrating Kommandos, Trukk Boyz, and anything else that you can get into your opponents face in a hurry will take some pressure of your main force. These 'skirmish' units will probably not last long (although I've had Kommandos crush units so badly that there was nothing left for the Sluggas to do when they arrived), but their job is to buy time.

Just remeber, no single tactic will win for long, your opponent will figure out a way to beat it. That's what great about Orks, they can do it all. They can smash anybody in close combat if you're smart about what you engage and when. They can also outshoot many armies. Yeah, you heard me right. Ork firepower is to be feared. They can get loads of special weapons very cheaply, and they all fire on the move. When you're rolling that many dice, some of it WILL hit.

[sittingduck]

I just started Orks and I am still not quite sure of how to handle them. After a dozen games or so with them, I have come to some conclusions that tend to go against conventional orky wisdom.

At first I tried huge mobs as advised (20-30), but that left me with too few capabilities to return fire. Then I tried mobs that are only 10 models strong with maximum number of heavy weapons, sometimes with a cheap Nob with choppa, boss pole and another heavy weapon of the same type, and suddenly I had my first promising results (combined with a BikMek and KFF for 5+ save).

Instead of getting shot to pieces as before I found my opponents comparing the orks with the eldar guardians I played before, concluding that from a morale point of view the orks were comparable to eldar with an Avatar and that they get the same 5+ coversave (but it is cheaper for the orks). In addition the orks have T4 and are a lot better in close combat. The only thing the orks are less good at is mobility (and the guardians do short ranged fire a bit better, too), but at long range one of the mentioned squads with big shootas even shoot better on average to a single scatterlaser. Mobile heavy weapons work like a miracle and scare opponents a lot when there are enough of them (as has been said by Irondog).

For the set up of the Waaghboss and the Nobz: I keep them very cheap and occasionly go for a squad without Nob. My first succesfull list (750) contained only a single PK, but had 4 rokkits and 14 (!) big shootas. My Waaghboss goes nearly naked with a big shoota and a choppa, and he now hunts only the sickly and the weak. That he can do very well and that way he even survives until the end of the game most of the time.

Next I will start experimenting with my two trucks. I am looking forward to your analysis of my report and for some more orky discussion.
Greetings
Dani

[InquisitorMatticus]

Being on the receiving side of this, i dont much like the sluggas with rokkits. Or sluggas with big shootas. however i laugh when i see them with burnas! Sluggas with special weapons are feared, even in smallish numbers they can be devastating.

I am still surprised to see an I8 warboss charging my lines with like 7 attacks eat a necron squad, or destroy striking scorpions. Leave the claw off the boss, give it to the nobs. Ya know. .. i always kinda wanted to play them orkses. . .

[barontuman]

Tuman on Feral Orks

Orks have always been my favorite army. Since 3rd edition, we've seen a steep decline in HtH combat effectiveness, with more and more emphasis put on shooting. I guess it's Sci-fi future sort of thing, but still, I prefer the up front in your face, gotta move your miniatures kind of army.

That being said, I feel that Feral Orks are what Orks should truely be. S4 and fearless. The ability to pump them up via the Pig Dok is astounding, and probably necessary since they can't have Power Klaws.

So, with enough Madboyz you've got the anti-infantry truely and completely covered. But how to get them there? 60 grotz cover it very well indeed. They're shooting at T4 models that cost 7 points, and killing S2 models that cost 3 points 1/3 of the time, plus spreading their damage over multiple units. The grot screen also works wonders against enemy charges, ensuring that the madboyz get their charge. Pumped up madboyz can even kill a Wraithlord!

But what about those pesky tanks? Well, that's what the Rokkits and Kannons are for. Every Pig Dok and Slaver gets a Rokkit. The Kannons of course go onto the Squiggoths.

Finally, you need to keep your enemy on their toes. No need to let them move around with impunity. You also need something fast. This can come in the form of the Warboss and nobs with Cyboars (19"-24" charges!) or Junkka trukks. I've been leaning towards trukks now since they take up less of your deployment zone (always a consideration when playing with 150+ models).
I've often heard that boarboyz are well liked, but it seems to me that a Nobz retinue is much better, because you don't have to dope them up, and you don't have reserves issues like you might with boarboyz and the warboss.

Finally, I've heard people complaining about Madboy hordes being broken, but against many shooty armies, they can definitely be beaten, you've just got to be smart about it. Compared to the Eldar, Tau and Assault Cannon frommage I've seen recently, the Madboy horde is just nicely competetive.

[barontuman]

Tuman on Orks in Cities of Death

Only 2 words need be said.. Burnaz, Sewers.

Ok, you want more? Having just come out of a COD league with Snakebites, I can tell you that burnas are the ultimate weapon. You fear nothing (except the occasional wraithlord) if you can get enough burnas to your enemy.

Toss in a few Kanz and some Skorcha buggies, and there's nothing you can't handle.

[sittingduck]

@barontuman: "COD, burnaz, sewers."
lol I will definitly try this next time I play COD.
Greetings
Dani

[barontuman]

Tuman on Codex Orks

Codex Orks now-a-days are pretty hard to be competetive with. You've got to manage to get across the field. Kustom Force Fields (KFF) will help with this. A KFF will effectively reduce your enemies shooting by 1/3, which is quite helpful.

Kannons. I've recently been converted to fielding Kannons. With 36" range and 2d6 armor penetration, these are excellent anti tank. As with most army lists, anti-infantry is not a problem. Also, at 36" range, you'll probably only be targeted by their anti-tank weapons, and it's great fun to see a 3 point grot get vaporized by a 30 point lascannon!

Rokkits. With the recent trend toward skimmers everywhere, a ton of S8 weapons are wonderful. You don't have to penetrate if you glance them 3 times!

Trukk boyz. Probably, barely, still worth it just to get some boyz where they need to go. Just don't run them out and get them shot on the first turn. You WILL be taking horrific casualties for the first couple of turns, just don't let the trukks be amoungst them. Be sneaky and cautious with them.

Kanz are nice take up those precious heavy slots. Take them in 3's and see if they've got enough anti-tank in their army!

Looted Vehicles. Anything that doesn't require you to hit with BS 2 (ok, so chances are the same with the scatter-die) is a bonus. If you've got a lot of vehicles in your army, then a Leman russ will help take the heat off. If you've got mostly infantry, then a hidden Basilisk will prevent their anti-tank from having viable targets.

[barontuman]

Tuman on Kult of Speed

KOS used to be tournament winners, now vehicles have been nerfed, they're much harder to win with.

Essentially there are 3 viable unit types in a KOS army.

Boyz in Trukks. As with a codex army, the trick is to get deliver your boyz into HtH without getting shot up. Don't let those Rokkits or Big Shootas fool you. The trucks shouldn't be shooting until you've delivered your payload. 1/3 chance of hitting then needing to penetrate isn't worth it. Skarboyz, trukk boyz, etc all fall under this category, it doesn't really matter much. You're there to duff them over the head. What you're holding at the time is the only difference.

Looted Vehicles - What's not to love about a Russ or a Basilisk? See my Codex Orks post.

Bikes - Some hate them, some love them. It's mostly about being careful how you use them. Their 5+ invulnerable won't save enough of them to massed firepower, so use them sparingly. Make sure you wipe out what your'e shooting/assaulting and don't take too many casualties. I've seen nobz retinues on bikes with Power Klaws do some good stuff, but they are even more fragile.

Used-to-be-effective units;

Buggies - I used to play an all buggy KOS. Shooty to the extreme, and all the opponents HtH is essentially wasted! Now, with the Kustom Force Field working only 50% of the time, you're buggies are much more vulnerable. Also, since leaving an immobile vehicle from a squadron now destroys the vehicle, they are less survivable. Finally, the increased damage from rapid-fire weapons was the death-nail 16 bolter and 2 plasma shots will do bad things to a squadron of buggies. Mostly they are good for blocking LOS, and they don't do that very well.

Battle wagons. Unless you're fielding a ton of them along with a Russ, every enemy will simply have enough fire power to knock down an AV 13 open tank. They look big and imposing, but you're probably better off with another unit of boyz in trukks.

[jazzdude78]

Shooty orks are the most fun Ive ever had in 40k
plus theyre suprisingly good
either bad moons or normal youll do fine

that said you will still want a squad (preferably 2-3) of sluggas/ardboyz/skarboyz as well

That said tanks are a huge problem as our range is only 24" on the affordable guns so a looted vehicle is IMHO quite needed as it can divert tank fire away from your boyz and help to deal with other tanks as well
that and a russ is always useful

Ive had the best luck vs. infantry based armies namely LatD, low tank guard, WH, and decent luck vs. tau (nonmech)

[psykochiken]

Thanks all for your responses, this is great stuff
just some questions to throw out there what HQ choices are strong how do you equip them, what is your favorite elite choice / how do you use it.

basically, tacktiks for HQ's and Elites

I think we are off to a great start, thanks all!!!

[Irondog]

I run my Warboss in what has become almost the default configuration. Powerklaw, Choppa and a 3+/5+ save. He's light on the points which leaves plenty for other goodies. I generally toss him in with a group of Trukk Boyz and use the unit as a rapid response force. Sending them out ahead of the main mob gets them killed too quickly.

I also run a Big Mek with Choppa, KFF, tools and 3 oilers. He's dirt cheap (67 points) and makes a great babysitter for a mob of Killa Kanz. He moves at the same speed, provides cover and can fix any non-fatal damage on 3+.

My favorite elite choice for the Orks has to be Kommandos. They are cheap and the ability to infiltrate should never be underestimated. I generally run at least 2 mobs of them. I tend to infiltrate into a forward position (preferably hard cover) and harass the enemy while my main mob moves forward. If they get shot up and fall back it's no big deal, it just means I have another Nob with a powerklaw to mob into one of my other units.

[psykochiken]

Kommandos don't seem very popular, but they might work as a delay, anyone tried it?

[ImmortalPariah]

stupid question... if Nazdreg can have a Warboss bodyguard, and Warbossez can have Nob bds, can u have Naz have a warboss bodyguard who has Nob bds? need to know for ultimate nec ownage

dont even think about it Groksnag...

[Goq Gar]

Da 2 most effektiv taktikz iz da taktik wherez ya gots LOTS a Boyz and ya charge em up da field screeemin WAAAGH! and wid lotza grots in frunt ta take all da shootin so da boyz get to da fight widout gettin krumped! Da uddah taktik dat wurkz well iz DREAD BASHIN! Getz yaself 9 kanz and stikk all da boyz behind em! All da kanz has gots ta have Xtra armur or deyz gonna get krumped so dat makes em all 50pts so dats 450 pts den put all da boyz behind it and send em off in a big Wall o WAAAGH!

(see the ork codex tactics section, though very vague they give you an idea of what my orky mind is trying to konvey about Dread Bash and Swamp 'Em tactics)

Or bettah yet, listen ta me an' da biggest, strongist orkz on dis thred: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33080

WE'ZE BE GREEN, WE'ZE BE MEAN, WE'ZE DA ORKZ AN' WE GOTZ DA FIGHTIN JOOCE!