Taktika: Orks

[razormasticator]

I will say this, Wazdakka is worth every penny points wise. That dude is one bad assed ork. He tore crap up, and killed a hive tyrant in cc in my Apoc game recently.

[Ravenous]

I never thought about running Snikrot with an IC. Maybe I should run him with my Warboss, or Gutsmek?

You could do it with Ghaz, but people bitch like no tomorrow when you do.

A cheapy Warboss with a claw generally works and adds alot of bite, they still get shot to peices mind you so it compounds the problem with snikrot. Then again you could put two cheap warbosses in with snikrot but thats overkill

[GrogDaTyrant]

I will say this, Wazdakka is worth every penny points wise. That dude is one bad assed ork. He tore crap up, and killed a hive tyrant in cc in my Apoc game recently.

That's a fluke... I've seen him die outright while charging a single lightning-claw terminator. Literally suffering 3 wounds from a single LC deathwing terminator, while charging. If he killed a Hive Tyrant, then it was either extremely bad rolls on the tyrant's part, or the tyrant never targeted him in CC.

Having fielded Wazzdakka more times than I can count, I can honestly say that he has got to be one of the most overcosted and useless named characters in the game. A generic Warboss on a bike is not only more more survivable, but more effective and cheaper! The only reason anyone should field Wazzdakka, is if they want Warbikes as Troops. For any other reason, just get a Bike Warboss.

[razormasticator]

That's a fluke... I've seen him die outright while charging a single lightning-claw terminator. Literally suffering 3 wounds from a single LC deathwing terminator, while charging. If he killed a Hive Tyrant, then it was either extremely bad rolls on the tyrant's part, or the tyrant never targeted him in CC.

Having fielded Wazzdakka more times than I can count, I can honestly say that he has got to be one of the most overcosted and useless named characters in the game. A generic Warboss on a bike is not only more more survivable, but more effective and cheaper! The only reason anyone should field Wazzdakka, is if they want Warbikes as Troops. For any other reason, just get a Bike Warboss.

I dunno man, being able to shoot whilst still moving 24...... I thought Wazdakka was worth it. But It was only one play. Perhaps I should give it a few more plays and see whats what.

[GrogDaTyrant]

I dunno man, being able to shoot whilst still moving 24...... I thought Wazdakka was worth it. But It was only one play. Perhaps I should give it a few more plays and see whats what.

Shooting while turbo-boosting sounds like a great perk... except it isn't. All he's got for ranged weaponry is a KMB and a 4-shot Rokkit at AP 4. Sounds decent until 4 shots at BS 2 average 1.3 hits a turn. If you want strict averages, you're looking at a 66% chance of penetrating AV 11... which isn't that great, considering 3 Rokkit Buggies/Koptas are potentially as fast, up to 50pts cheaper, and have an 82% chance of scoring a pen result on AV 11.

The problem to Wazzdakka is two-fold. First he lacks an Invulnerable save. With just a 4+ armor, 4+ cover, and 3+ cover when turbo-boosting, his ideal focus should therefore be to stay at range where powered-attacks have a harder time getting to him. But 4 Str 8 shots without a reroll is extremely mediocre for tank/monster/infantry killing purposes, and the Orks are in no way hurting on the amount of Str 8 they can already bring to the table. Especially in the previously mentioned Deathkoptas, or morale-immune Rokkit-Buggies.

So this leads to his second problem... a lack of Focus. With Shooting being sub-par, you then look into combat. Well close combat wise, Wazzdakka is still a slouch. At base Str 4 (Big Mek strength), he comes out at Str 8 with his powerklaw, 9 on the charge. Again... something Orks aren't really hurting for, considering every single Nob, Bike Nob, and Warbike Nob Leader can match that and bring an assortment of ablative wounds with them. Survivability wise he suffers due to no Invuln, and a reliance upon his Toughness 5(6) to carry him through. About the only units he should be engaging in combat are generic troop infantry that lack powered-weapons. Again... something that Orks aren't really hurting for.


By stark contrast, you can field a solo Warboss on a bike for 20 to 30pts less, who will have a base Str 5 (10 with his PK), can have +1 attack from a Squig, and will also have T5(6) and a 4+ armor and cover save. He will still have decent shooting in the form of a Twin-Linked Dakkagun (which is just as effective against infantry, per averages), can be armed with a Kombi-Skorcha for a 1-shot heavy-flamer (worth every penny), and will have a 5+ Invulnerable save. If for no other reason, the 5+ invuln, kombi-skorcha, and Land-Raider throwing Str 10 is reason enough to go for the Warboss instead. The discount in cost, is a perk at that point.


Wazzdakka does excel at one thing, however. People automatically assume that a named character should be some awesome, tyrannical force that requires a colossal amount of firepower/cc focus to bring down. Because of that, you can often say "Wazzdakka is going to turbo-boost 24" straight toward your -insert important ranged unit here-", and watch them panic. He probably won't kill the target, and most likely won't even survive to the next turn. But the distraction he can cause will often save the rest of your bikes from harm. His greatest achievement for me personally, has been to cause Nightbringer to backtrack in order to charge and kill him (effectively removing Nightbringer from the game).

[jspyd3rx]

Want to mess with anyone's head? I run 15x deffkoptas with snikrot. Between scouting with koptaz and snikrot waiting to gank someone; your opponent is backpedalling turn one.

[Axeman1n]

Grod, you just said everything I was thinking about Gutsmek. I was thinking of just taking him as a standard Biker boss, but that Str 8 shot has proven very useful. However, with everything else falling short, I think I will heed your advice and use a regular biker boss. Incidentally I do run 15 Deffkoptas, and was thinking of running snikrot for the added disruption factor. If only there was a way to scout a scoring unit onto the table.

[GrogDaTyrant]

Axeman1n: Yeah, I'd definitely recommend a Bike Warboss instead. The one I have has never let me down, and routinely performs well. It's amazing how much difference a simple 5++ cybork body can make at times. Still though, if you're looking for warbikes as troops (and they are extremely useful as such), Wazzdakka is your only option unless your opponents/friends are alright with you using IA8.


One thing to note about 15 Deathkoptas, is the morale problems. Deathkoptas aren't particularly tough to bring down, especially since they *usually* have to rely on a 4+ armor save if they slow down to shoot something. It has been my experience with them that units of 1 to 2 are ideal, with 3 being 'the most' I'd run in a mob. The primary reasons for that is because of cost, and morale. Units of 5 Deathkoptas can take 3 casualties (not hard, as 3 krak missiles will do that), and if they fail a morale check will endlessly run off the board. 4 nets you the same problem with your 50% mark being 3 casualties as well. As such, 4 koptas would be preferable to me over 5, due to the reduced chance of watching 90+ points flee endlessly off the board.

The reason I prefer 1 to 2 in a mob however, is I found that you don't really need much more. If your opponent wants your Deathkoptas dead, the difference in firepower required to take down 2 koptas or to shatter a unit of 5 is about [1 krak rokkit] or [4 extra bolters]. Another thing to note about 2 Deathkopta units, is the only way they can be 'reliably dealt with', is to completely eradicate them. This is because units of 2 are always able to regroup, as their 'below 50%' mark is 2 casualties.

If Deathkoptas had access to a bosspole, or could always regroup below 50%, then I'd consider a larger unit of them. Units of 2 will still reliably score at least 1 hit with rokkits, and can be kept relatively low in cost (totaling 115pts for 2 with a Buzzsaw). If Big Shootas are what you're after, warbikes are a better bargain for your points (despite the 50% range), due to a 50% cover save and PK Nob leader. Another alternative is simply dirt-cheap buggy/trakk units, which sidestep morale altogether at the cost of 1-3 per unit and a maximum move speed of 18" (24" on road). If you're looking at Kustom Mega Blastas on your Deathkoptas, then I recommend looking into Kanz instead.

Bear in mind, your mileage may vary quite a lot with large units of Deathkoptas. The few times I've tried to field units of 4 or 5, it was a complete disaster thanks to morale checks and Ld 7. 3 units of 2 on the other hand, has worked quite well and given me plenty of room left over for other units. It also freed my Bike Warboss from babysitting the Deathkoptas, so he can do more important things like throw land-raiders or babysit Warbikes.

[razormasticator]

Shooting while turbo-boosting sounds like a great perk... except it isn't. All he's got for ranged weaponry is a KMB and a 4-shot Rokkit at AP 4. Sounds decent until 4 shots at BS 2 average 1.3 hits a turn. If you want strict averages, you're looking at a 66% chance of penetrating AV 11... which isn't that great, considering 3 Rokkit Buggies/Koptas are potentially as fast, up to 50pts cheaper, and have an 82% chance of scoring a pen result on AV 11.

The problem to Wazzdakka is two-fold. First he lacks an Invulnerable save. With just a 4+ armor, 4+ cover, and 3+ cover when turbo-boosting, his ideal focus should therefore be to stay at range where powered-attacks have a harder time getting to him. But 4 Str 8 shots without a reroll is extremely mediocre for tank/monster/infantry killing purposes, and the Orks are in no way hurting on the amount of Str 8 they can already bring to the table. Especially in the previously mentioned Deathkoptas, or morale-immune Rokkit-Buggies.

So this leads to his second problem... a lack of Focus. With Shooting being sub-par, you then look into combat. Well close combat wise, Wazzdakka is still a slouch. At base Str 4 (Big Mek strength), he comes out at Str 8 with his powerklaw, 9 on the charge. Again... something Orks aren't really hurting for, considering every single Nob, Bike Nob, and Warbike Nob Leader can match that and bring an assortment of ablative wounds with them. Survivability wise he suffers due to no Invuln, and a reliance upon his Toughness 5(6) to carry him through. About the only units he should be engaging in combat are generic troop infantry that lack powered-weapons. Again... something that Orks aren't really hurting for.


By stark contrast, you can field a solo Warboss on a bike for 20 to 30pts less, who will have a base Str 5 (10 with his PK), can have +1 attack from a Squig, and will also have T5(6) and a 4+ armor and cover save. He will still have decent shooting in the form of a Twin-Linked Dakkagun (which is just as effective against infantry, per averages), can be armed with a Kombi-Skorcha for a 1-shot heavy-flamer (worth every penny), and will have a 5+ Invulnerable save. If for no other reason, the 5+ invuln, kombi-skorcha, and Land-Raider throwing Str 10 is reason enough to go for the Warboss instead. The discount in cost, is a perk at that point.


Wazzdakka does excel at one thing, however. People automatically assume that a named character should be some awesome, tyrannical force that requires a colossal amount of firepower/cc focus to bring down. Because of that, you can often say "Wazzdakka is going to turbo-boost 24" straight toward your -insert important ranged unit here-", and watch them panic. He probably won't kill the target, and most likely won't even survive to the next turn. But the distraction he can cause will often save the rest of your bikes from harm. His greatest achievement for me personally, has been to cause Nightbringer to backtrack in order to charge and kill him (effectively removing Nightbringer from the game).

Wow.. okay, well thanks for the general breakdown. Its a Forge World Biker boss so I can run him as Wazdakka and or a normal biker boss.

[elite_dannux]

What is the best way to use deff koptas?

Only TL-Rokkits or buzzsaws for cc?
Share your green insights!

[Ravenous]

I use 3 units of 1 Deff kopta with TL rokkits and Buzz saws.

If you get first turn scout 24" them across the table, if you go second either scout them up to get shot with their 3+ cover save, or outflank them.

[Rated_lexxx]

Has the tatic of running 30 boyz in a mob changed? When I started playing that seem to be the way to go, but now I am seeing a change to 20 per mob. Is this true and if so how come?

[Meriwether]

For footslogging mobs, I pretty much always go with 30 boyz.

[Ravenous]

I run with 30, but with the increase of abilities that let you "one time" a 30 man mob is making me want to take less orks and take more units or weird stuff.

Like my 1850 list now is

Big Mek with KFF
120 Shoota boyz with Nobs w/klaw, pole
30 Slugga boyz with Nob w/klaw, pole
3 units of 1 deffkopta with TL Rokkits, Buzzsaws
2 Units of 8 Lootas
2 Units of 2 Kannons.

If I dropped 10 boyz per squad that gives me 300pts, so Ghazskull, more lootas, snikrot whatever really.

['IllBillyOrk]

I found this 1k list works amazingly well against marines in just skirmish type matches or can be used to augment another 1500pt list to get a crazy 25k, but its definately up for debate

2xBig Mek - KFF, Burna, Squig, 'eavy armor and Cybork

9xKilla Kan - Grot Zooka

2xDeff Dread - 2 extra CCW

[blurrymadness]

I use 30 man blobs almost exclusively now. The difference of 60 points is the difference of 50% survivability. IMO the more you can get out of the PK nob's protection, the better.

That said, 30 man mobs are somewhat unwieldy, almost never have all the shootas in range (less you or they are about to be charged) and because they have a huge foot print, they're easier to pull of objectives via CC/defender's react, so position them accordingly.


@Ravenous
Neat take on the horde I guess. Keep in mind, you're sort of side-stepping an issue there. "10 boyz per mob" sounds like nothing until you realize you're saying you're removing 50 boyz from the list. Nearly two mobs taken out is a HUGE amount for ONE model. I don't care how special ghazzy seems, that's a BIG sacrifice and he'll never make up 50 models worth of difference if thats you're perogative.

That said, I imagine you run a star like pattern:
S = shoota mob members, L = Slugga mob members

L L L L L L L L L L
S1 S1 KFF S2 S2
S3 S3 S3 S4 S4 S4

With sluggas to absorb the charge etc?
Also, your list looks particularly vulnerable in Dawn of War, where you'll have a lot moving on unable to contribute/position properly (being stationary/heavy). Doubly so if you go second.

[Dribble Joy]

You can still quite easily do a biker army without Wazzdakka. Two WBs on bikes, two nob biker mobs and then a bucket of regular warbikes.

['IllBillyOrk]

What should be the average size mob of kommandos when you take snikrot...im thinking point costs and how to effectively run a normal 1500 or 1850 list since thats the size we do for tourneys at my local shop

[blurrymadness]

As with most squad types in the game, go max or min, but in between is just odd. Max snikky for a "hard hitting" unit, or min him as a disruption piece. I'd personally say max with how many points he costs. With Kommandos what's important is the weapon choice you use on them. Burnas if you feel you need some anti infantry hits (hidden powerweapons ) or rokkits/big shootas for some rear armor shots.

[Meriwether]

I've found that the boyz are sufficiently effective assaulting rear armor that rokkits/big shootas are extraneous, and thus that burnas are the obvious choice every time.