What's with Slaanesh and Khorne, now again?

[Kjell]

We all know which Chaos God is the primary rival of which and it mostly makes sense. Tzeentch, who represents hope, involvement, luck and direction is fundamentally opposed to Nurgle, who represents despair, apathy, cycles and stagnation. However, the rivalry of Slaanesh and Khorne is one I have a bit of difficulty figuring out. Slaanesh is the god of greed, to whom the act of wanting is the only important thing but Khorne is the god of rage, to whom the act of killing is the only important thing. Since Khorne is also a militantly dominating god it can be argued that he is the god of taking.

Slaanes takes what it wants, but Khorne takes what he wants.

It sounds a little bit farfetched to me but it's a better reason for rivalry than Khorne simply despising Slaanesh for being wussy. On such a simple level Tzeentch is far more opposed to Khorne.


Of course, it may well be that the rivalries of the gods aren't as clear as one versus the other. They might very well be each other's main rival in different fields and different ways.

[Rockerfella]

Slaanesh is no wussy. Khorne tried to battle Slaanesh when s/he first woke. Slaanesh was immensly tired after her battle with Khaine, but still fought Khorne to a stand off.

Intersting theory though.. :O)

[Hideous Loon]

Interesting notion, Bergqvist. However, like you said, it's a bit too farfetched, and a bit of a stretch. Methinks it would be better if the warlike and raging Khorne would simply despise Slaanesh for being a sissy god who likes poon more than blood, as it would imply that the Chaos Gods are as grown-up and mature as five-year-old boys.

[Sephiroth]

Its interesting to note that, despite being one of the youngest, of the Big Bad Four, Slaanesh has pretty much from it's birth become an 'equal' to the other three, at least enough that they must consider it within their alliances.

[Rockerfella]

Indeed.

At its birth, Slaanesh was pretty much the most powerful entity in the galaxy. it had just consumed several Eldar gods and an entire race pretty much.

Slaanesh is no 'sissy' or 'wuss' god i'm afraid.;....

[ArtificerArmour]

I think its just the oldest God hating the young upstart, and slaanesh is trying to usurp Khorne's position.

[Kjell]

Indeed.

At its birth, Slaanesh was pretty much the most powerful entity in the galaxy. it had just consumed several Eldar gods and an entire race pretty much.

Slaanesh is no 'sissy' or 'wuss' god i'm afraid.;....

In Khorne's eyes, I mean. Power-wise Slaanesh is one of the Great Four after all. The followers of Slaanesh are a good deal more decadent, what with being clad in fine silks, golden chains and dousing themselves in exquisite perfumes. These are not "mucho macho" according to current Western culture which spawned this setting.


So... Khorne thinks that Slaanesh is a girly-boy while Slaanesh thinks that Khorne is an unsophisticated brute. Exactly why Khorne is so bothered by luxury is not really explained. Realistically, their rivalry might be founded in their little spat over Khaine. As much as Khorne abhors Tzeentch, he has never had any troubles with Tzeentch trying to claim things which he sees as fundamentally his. I'm not talking about "Oh, hi, I'm going to conquer some of your worlds" but rather "Oh, hi, I'm going to be the new war god from now on".

I think its just the oldest God hating the young upstart, and slaanesh is trying to usurp Khorne's position.

How is Slaanesh trying to usurp Khorne's position? The other two gods are also trying their best to be number one in every way possible. Though, the followers of Slaanesh are the only other ones to specifically care about martial skill. They aspire to perfection in a lot of fields. How this doesn't tick Tzeentch off as well I don't know. I can easily see some slaaneshi champions enjoying manipulation and scheming and doing it because it's fun instead of fulfilling a particular goal.

[Drasanil]

I think the Slaanesh-Khorne rivalry boils down more to the opposition of hate and love(all be it perverted). Most slaanesh followers are actualy quite peacefull and amiable when left to their own devices -outside of the occasional sacrifice- according to ToC. Slaanesh cults tends to get along and go unoticed because their primary concern has nothing to do with making war, seizing power, or killing for it's own sake, in other words they don't fight unless they have to which Khornes an even angrier panda. Further more if Slaanesh became the dominant human diety Khorne would be immesurably weakened as their would be little to no wars and not much rage to sustain him.

Similarily Khorne's followers tends to become little more than frothing madmen incapable of feeling much besides bloodlust and rage, which means that if Khorne become the dominant human diety Slaanesh's power would be weakened, as now one would even think to indulge in excessive or perverted behaviour and enjoy life to it's fullest.

[Torgo]

The interactions of the Chaos gods don't always make sense, they are insane after all. All the gods have their followers ally or fight at their whim. As far as Slaanesh vs. Khorne, all of Khorne's followers are warriors, while Slaanesh's followers are only warriors if it suits their own desires (or necessity). A follower of Slaanesh might be a duellist like Lucius, or hunt men for sport like in Storm Warriors. Just as likely, they might spend all day in a drugged haze, or engaged in huge orgies. I think this lack of focus might be part of why Khorne hates Slaanesh.

[hiveminion]

Their rivalry can be traced back to the Fall of the Eldar. When Slaanesh consumed the Eldar gods, Khaine stepped up and fought her. He was defeated. Khorne then intervened, claiming Khaine belonged to him. during the struggle between the two Chaos gods Khaine fled, but was so weakened he had to spread his essence out over numerous Avatars.
More differences between Khorne and Slaanesh, as well as the above story, can be found on Wiki (yes you read that right).

[Light of the Emperor]

I'm gonna try to explain using the space marine legions as an example.

The World Eaters (Khorne) and the Emperor's Children (Slaneesh) hate each other. In the Horus Heresy novels, there are plenty of examples where the two forces badmouth one another. The World Eaters seek to destroy everything within sight with sword, axe and even their bare hands. The Emperor's Children seek perfection and view fighting as an art. So while they want to destroy everything as well, they toy with their opponents and kill them with grace and perfection. They see the World Eaters as barbaric and clumsy. The World Eaters on the other hand see the EC as vain prettyboys who can't be bothered to get their hands dirty.
It comes down to the basic human instinct of violence versus a more refined and somewhat unnatural want of the senses. This same conflict between the two legions should apply in some way to the Chaos Gods as well.

[Diomedes]

Khorne believes in warfare, constant warfare blood for the blood God and skulls for his throne etc etc.

Their is no pleasure in Khornes mind, only war and death. Slannesh is decadent and killing for his/her followers is a sensual act, this alone is going to make a God of War sick to his stomach!

A follower of Slannesh may keep someone alive for months and torture them, experiencing pleasure in their prisoners pain, Khorne wants the kill and the skull keeping people alive isn't on his agenda.

Its a lot like Hippies being the exact opposite of miltary men, Slannesh followers seeking the ultimate high and Khorne followers believing that its all about death and glory and constant warfare.

While their going about battling and killing for their God as has already been said Slannesh's followers could be having a huge orgy somewhere.

EDIT: found this which sums things up rather well I think.

""Bloodshed and violence pervade the galaxy so Khorne is the most powerful of Chaos Gods. He commands armies of demons and legions of mortal followers beyond numbering. His chief rival is Tzeentch, the Great Sorcerer. Tzeentch is the patron of wizards just as Khorne is the patron of warriors. Naturally this rivalry does not prevent Khorne making common cause with Tzeentch when the prospects of blood-letting are great. Combined, the two gods wield greater power than any of the others. Of all his brother-gods Khorne despises Slannesh most of all, for the self-indulgent sensualities of the Prince of Chaos are an affront to Khorne. Even so, Khorne may join forces with Slannesh when necessary, much as it may gall him to do so."
(Codex - Chaos p22, copyright 1996 Games Workshop)"

[Kandarin]

Slaanesh takes what it wants, but Khorne takes what he wants.

I'd say it goes beyond that. Khorne just takes, whether what he takes is something he wants or not.

[Studd_Beefpile]

I've always felt that Khone <> Tzeentch and Nurgle <> Slannesh made much more sense. Khorne as sensless exercise of might opposed to Tzeentch' endless plotting. Nugle's rejection of the physical world compared to slannesh' obsession with sensation.

Of course, if I was going to be that heretical I'd go even farther and say that the gods were each opposed to 2 gods, not just one. T<> KN; K<>ST; N<>TS; S <> KN.

[Lord Zarkov]

I's allways thought that the rivalries were due to the rival gods being two different take on the same theme and that they tread on each other's feet so to speak.
Tzeentch/Nurgle say, they're both partly about physical corruption, but Tzeentch is evolution, flux, hope for change; whereas Nurgle is about decay, stagnation, dispair of change.
Khorne and Slaanesh both have aspects of skilled combat and love of battle, but Khorne is about the desire for bloodletting, and martial prowess and (to some degree) honour; while Slaanesh is about the pleasures and sensations of battle for pleasure's sake, and using other twisted methods to fight and infliting pain for the sake of pain
In this way they have simmilar themes but carried out in a very different way, with their ideals being at odds at the same time.

Who would you dislike more, someone who is into completly different thing to you, or someone who is into the smae things as you, is your equal at the top of the scale, and works in a manner thart is not only diametrically opposed from yours, but carried out in such a way as to interfere and disrupt your own methods.

While Khorne/Tzeentch and Nurgle/Slaanesh may at first seem more different, they don't nearly as much interfere with each other's goals as Khorne/Slaanesh and Tzeentch/Nurgle

[ryng_sting]

We all know which Chaos God is the primary rival of which and it mostly makes sense. Tzeentch, who represents hope, involvement, luck and direction is fundamentally opposed to Nurgle, who represents despair, apathy, cycles and stagnation. However, the rivalry of Slaanesh and Khorne is one I have a bit of difficulty figuring out. Slaanesh is the god of greed, to whom the act of wanting is the only important thing but Khorne is the god of rage, to whom the act of killing is the only important thing. Since Khorne is also a militantly dominating god it can be argued that he is the god of taking.

Slaanes takes what it wants, but Khorne takes what he wants.

It sounds a little bit farfetched to me but it's a better reason for rivalry than Khorne simply despising Slaanesh for being wussy. On such a simple level Tzeentch is far more opposed to Khorne.


Of course, it may well be that the rivalries of the gods aren't as clear as one versus the other. They might very well be each other's main rival in different fields and different ways.

Slovenliness, decadence, pleasure and self-indulgement are an affront the spartan, perpetually outraged outlook Khore promotes. So if people are enjoying the present, rather than feeling angry at or disgusted by it...

[Eulenspiegel]

The Chaos God rivalries come not from their obvious differences, but from their similarities, but different outlook at things.

Khorne and Slaanesh are both about pleasure.
The difference is that Khorne´s followers derive pleasure only and exclusively from bloodshed. Slaanesh´s people can derive pleasure from anything.
That makes Khorne followers single-minded lunatics in Slaanesh´s eyes, and Slaanesh´s followers decadent "wusses" (to use that word ).

It´s similar for Tzeentch and Nurgle: both their philosophies are about fear of the future and untimately death.
While Tzeentch followers try to actively change that, and leave an imprint on the world, Nurgle followers give in to despair and give up.

[ArtificerArmour]

How is Slaanesh trying to usurp Khorne's position? The other two gods are also trying their best to be number one in every way possible. Though, the followers of Slaanesh are the only other ones to specifically care about martial skill. They aspire to perfection in a lot of fields. How this doesn't tick Tzeentch off as well I don't know. I can easily see some slaaneshi champions enjoying manipulation and scheming and doing it because it's fun instead of fulfilling a particular goal.

You've just really answered your own question. All the God's are vying to be number one, Khorne kinda just got given the crown because hatred is the strongest human emotion - many followers just "fall" into his worship by taking the bloodletting too far.

Slaanesh get's its power through the individual's choice to be decadent and further take pleasure. Khorne probably sees this as a threat. That's how I see it.

[evil space marine]

Khorne probably would win because his followers could tear slaanesh apart

[eldaran]

I would guess that it is because Khorne wants blood and skulls, so he dislikes Slaanesh, who likes sensation, which means that there will be a rivalry between Khorne, who wants as many blood and skulls as possible, as opposed to Slaanesh, who wishes to kill in the most sadistic way possible.