1850 Eldar CraftWorld Dorhai: Eldar Armored Company

[Strikerkc]

Alright, first off, craftworld Dorhai is actualy an official GW Craft world. It's refferenced in an old second edition codex imperialis. I picked it becuase the craft world has cut off contact with all other Eldar craft worlds, considering them to be tainted by chaos . Meaning no aspect warriors. Meanning they'd have to depend more heavily on vehicles and armor .

Farseer
-guide
*70 points*

[Cheap is a priority for him, I don't want the army to be centered around characters and powers]

Guardian Squad #1
x5 Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ twin bright lances and spirit stone
*175 points*

Guardian Squad #2
x5 Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ twin bright lances and spirit stone
*175 points*

Guardian Squad #3
x5 Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ twin bright lances and spirit stone
*175 points*

Guardian Squad #4
x5 Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ twin star cannons and spirit stone
*175 points*

Guardian Squad #5
x5 Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ twin star cannons and spirit stone
*175 points*

Guardian Squad #6
x5 Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ twin star cannons and spirit stone
*175 points*

[These are mostly to get the vehicles. In missions where i need to claim an objective I'll use the 30 guardians to sit on it once the Landing zone is clear ]

Flacon Grav Tank #1
-Scatter laser
-Holo Field
-Spirit stones
*180 points*

Flacon Grav Tank #2
-Scatter laser
-Holo Field
-Spirit stones
*180 points*

[Stuff the farseer in grav tank #1, and make it suitibly modeled so it's clear the farseer is in it, and not the other]

Guardian Jet bike squad
x9 bikes (3 w/ shuriken cannons)
*375 points*

[Mostly to haras the enemy, and draw a little more fire from the rest of the "fleet". Heaven forbid I keep them hiden then use them near the end of the game to grab an objective and such]

Total: *1855 points*

[Jal'knock]

I would drop one of the troops choices and add starcannons to the falcons. Also make the guardians into storm guardians and give them flamers all round. Any points left for a jetbike warlock would be sweet and would cap off that jetbike squad nicely. He could also lend a cover save to your expensive bikes.

[Jonathan =I=]

I agree with Jal'knock

Make those Gaurdien squads into storm gaurdien squads with flamers and attach a warlock with destructor to each one. This ensures that they can do something whan they dismount. Ech mini squad has the ability to kill about 20 orcs if you are lucky.

Also drop those scatter lasers for Starcannons you know you want to

[Lithanial]

8 eldar heavy vehicles. i feel sorry for your opponent, and yes again change to stormies for the flamers, all those starcannons will be laughed at by a horde force so you need some way of doing extensive damage

[Jonathan =I=]

all those starcannons will be laughed at by a horde force so you need some way of doing extensive damage

Why?
Starcannons have a high rate of fire which makes them good against any infantry. (Too good)

[ReDavide]

Jal'Knock's advice is very good.

If you upgrade an existing bike to a warlock instead of adding a new bike, you'll have enough points left over for a fire prism or pair of vypers. That way you don't lose out on any tankage.

There are some people who would object to seeing 3 shurikannons in the bike squad then. Up to you.

[Lithanial]

because an entrenched horde force will happily soak up the minimal casualties caused while retaining 99% of its firepower, out of those 3 shots you can only really rely on 2 hitting, throw in a cover save and thats one kill a turn. not really a big menace to large guard squads now is it.

[Strikerkc]

There are some people who would object to seeing 3 shurikannons in the bike squad then. Up to you.

Hmmm, looking at it I don't quite see why. The entry says that "1 in 3 jet bikes may replace", and there would be 9 jet bikes in that squad. If it said "Guardian jet bikers" or something like that i'd say no 3rd cannon.

well, at least one of the falcons would be keeping it's scatter laser, since on average every other turn you'll be getting one more shot than with the star cannon (average of 2d6 is 7, opsed to two turns at 3 shots each). The farseer will be riding in that one for certain htough. And I've still got plenty of AP2 and other star cannons. The falcon's main jobs are to blast on infantry, while the serpents pull particular jobs (like tank hunting and close up landing zone clearing).

I'm very hesitant to simply drop one of the falcon squads. This army is built around something I've come to know as the "Dreadnought Theory", It's most clear for dreadnoughts (but it can aply to any vehicle). The only thing more survivable than 1 dreadnought is 2 dreadnoughts, and the only thing more survivable than 2 is 3. Every time you add a dread, the life expectancy of all 3 increase a lot (never crunched the numbers, but I know it to be true from experience) It makes the enemy spread out their shots. And with an army that can be cripled so quickly with a couple good dice roles, I feel like it's probably more important to have as many armored vehicles in there as I can get, as oposed to a few 5 man squads of guardians with swords and flame throwers (that and the points just aren't there if I want as many vehicles as I can manage)

If you upgrade an existing bike to a warlock instead of adding a new bike, you'll have enough points left over for a fire prism or pair of vypers. That way you don't lose out on any tankage.

Hmmm, perhaps. I'd have to get the fire prisim though. I've found vypers to be a complete waste of points, between being open toped and such a light armor rating, they're always stuned or spiraling towards the ground in a ball of fire .

[Xander-K]

its a very unique and well planned out theme, don't bother with the storm guardians, you are using the guardians mainly to hold objectives not do the damage & I agree, more vehicles the better with this list.

[Jal'knock]

Jal'Knock's advice is very good.

There are some people who would object to seeing 3 shurikannons in the bike squad then. Up to you.

I wouldn't, they make excellent transport hunters and are great for tackling aspect warriors, fire warriors etc.

all those starcannons will be laughed at by a horde force so you need some way of doing extensive damage

Not if he has those flamer guardians.

If it said "Guardian jet bikers" or something like that i'd say no 3rd cannon.

There are guardians on the jetbikes therefore they are guardian jetbikes

[Strikerkc]

There are guardians on the jetbikes therefore they are guardian jetbikes

There would also be a warlock on the jet bike, there fore there are 9 jet bikes, exactly what you need to have 9 of to bring the 3rd cannon.

[Jal'knock]

Actually there were 9 guardians on the jetbikes in your original list, therefore the warlock bike would have been an extra.

[Strikerkc]

Actually there were 9 guardians on the jetbikes in your original list, therefore the warlock bike would have been an extra.

We were speaking about if we replaced a guardian with the warlock instead of adding a 10th bike with the warlock

[Jal'knock]

Isn't the warlock then considered part of the farseer's retinue rather than an actual integral part of the guardian jetbike squad? Then again his entry is in their list entry so in the strictest sense I'd allow you to take the three cannons. It is a 9th jetbike after all, just the rider has changed.

[Xander-K]

yes indeed, the warlock is a squad upgrade for jetbike guardians and thus counts as part of the squad when taking into account how many cannons you have.

same as if you have 5 slaanesh chosen and 1 asp. champion you'd still get 2 special/heavy weapons since there are 6 guys in the same squad.

[Jonathan =I=]

because an entrenched horde force will happily soak up the minimal casualties caused while retaining 99% of its firepower, out of those 3 shots you can only really rely on 2 hitting, throw in a cover save and thats one kill a turn. not really a big menace to large guard squads now is it.

Its still the best weapon Elder have against mass infantry.

[Lithanial]

i would rather use my jetbike seers with destructor, dont get me wrong starcannons are a great weapon, especially due to marine players prevailance to ignore every piece of cover in sight in their mad rush to get into rapid fire range. and against that kind of army this list will annihilate them.

but the second you come across a smart opponent who has sufficient numbers and utilises terrain the starcannon is far from ideal.

for example this list contains 3 twin linked starcannons and if the falcons are upgraded that will be 2 pulse lasers and 2 starcannons. using eldar BS and average pulse laser hits with a bit of rounding up, thats 10 starcannon hits and 2 pulse laser hits a turn. 1/6th wont wound so normally thats 10 marines dead. very respectable if the enemy stays in the open. however if you come across an entrenched force that reduces to 5-7 models dead depending on the cover.

now apply that sort of kill rate against a force like imperial guard and you will quickly realise this list is seriously flawed

[Jonathan =I=]

You do make a good point.

For low save massed infantry storm gaurdiens with 2 flamers and destructor would be my weapon of choice.
The army would be better off with Storm Gaurdien flamer squads instead of normal gaurdiens and a few less bikes.

[Puffin Magician]

Although I like tanks, I don't like having puny 5-man guardian squads as all your Troops just to access more Wave Serpents. A measly 30 Guardians won't be able to hold a table quarter for long [what's contesting the other 3?], and what are your plans for when a Serpent is destroyed? Those Guardians that survive the crash will certainly pose no threat to your opponent, even if they don't flee off the table.

Drop those useless, rubbish Jetbikes and take Vyper Squadrons instead. For the same points, you could have 5 Vypers each with 2 Shuriken Cannons and Vectored Engines. Better weapons, better protection, better mobility. They also fit better with the Armoured theme; so why the hell not?

Why Spirit Stones on every tank and Holofields on the Falcons? I agree they're decent peices of wargear, but those points add up. You say you're using power in numbers for your vehicle's surviveability, do you need to spend a futher 130pts on making them near-invincible? That's a free Fire Prism right there! All the fire they attract should be reduced to Glancing Hits anyway, as you should rely on the speed of your vehicles as your main defence.

Its still the best weapon Elder have against mass infantry.

Well, Heavy Infantry at least. The Scatter Laser is better at mowing down hordes.

Here's what I'd do:

57pts - Farseer; CCW, Shuriken Pistol, Mind War[1]

190pts - 10 Guardian Defenders; Wave Serpent w/ Linked Shuriken Cannons[2]
190pts - 10 Guardian Defenders; Wave Serpent w/ Linked Shuriken Cannons
190pts - 10 Guardian Defenders; Wave Serpent w/ Linked Shuriken Cannons
205pts - 10 Guardian Defenders; Wave Serpent w/ Linked Bright Lances
205pts - 10 Guardian Defenders; Wave Serpent w/ Linked Bright Lances

140pts - 2 Vyper Jetbikes; Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon upgrade[3]
140pts - 2 Vyper Jetbikes; Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon upgrade
70pts - 1 Vyper Jetbike; Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon upgrade

165pts - Falcon Grav Tank; Pulse Laser, Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon upgrade[4]
165pts - Falcon Grav Tank; Pulse Laser, Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon upgrade
125pts - Fire Prism Grav Tank; Prism Cannon, Spirit Stone[5]

1842pts

[1]: Why Mind War? Not only because it's cheap, but because you have nothing except heavy weapons to deal with enemy characters. Plop the Farseer out backed up by the Guardians and hopefully be able to pick them off before they wreak havoc.
[2]: Why Shuriken Cannons instead of superior weapons? Well for one, the cost. Secondly and probably more importantly, you'll have more shots being fired which means more saves being taken [or more being ignored!] by your opponent.
[3]: Why Vypers, and why stick with their basic Primary Weapon? 10 Shuriken Cannons flying around is certainly going to scare any opponent, for the same reasons mentioned in #2.
[4]: Why Shuriken Cannon upgrade and Scatter Laser? Rather than using the Falcon primarily for it's Pulse Laser and leave the Scatter Laser as a "backup", give it additional short-range firepower and unleash all the tank's firepower on the move [you get between 5 and 11 shots], using it as a mobile weapons platform rather than a delivery system for a single s8 weapon.
[5]: Why oh why have I suggested a Fire Prism? Sure it's only weapon is somewhat unreliable, but now you're not depending on troop transports to kill enemy armour. The Prism also has nearly double the range of Bright Lances, allowing it to hang back and escape retaliatory fire.

[Jal'knock]

An interesting set of changes to the list I must admit. I like the vypers particularly. The only problem I'd have is with the falcon scatter lasers (never developed a liking for them) and the fact that the farseer would have to mount up with the falcons as the serpents are full.

Shruiken cannons are all well and good but you'll want to deny terminators or marines the benefit of their saves. Fine, in cover they may get anything of up to a 4+ save in most games, but thats still better than a 3+ save. I would rather spend the points on the starcannons and having less shots but a better chance of killing heavy infantry and basic 3+ save forces like Sisters, and all flavours of marine.