TATICA: Treadheads!

[alterion]

A neccessary edition to the hallowed relams of portent i think... All tank based tatics in here- esp armoured company ones. Just a note to all guard treadheads you should seriously think about buying IA1- great book if you can stomach the cost.. also lok at the GW webbie in the black gobbo archives for some great articles about converting and painting tanks. any more for any more (note: i havn't limited this down to just Ig and Ac but the focus will probably be here- more general tatics and tatics tank use in other armies also welcome) Note2 feel free to post any inspiring conversion or modelling tips you have too

[TheSonOfAbbadon]

Personally I like the 'take a huge armoured tank and drive straight through the enemy lines to clear a hole for your CC units to exploit and maybe run over a few people in the process' tactic.

Never tried it out, but it's a good tactic if you're insane like me and da boyz.

[Puffin Magician]

I prefer a wall tactic, full yet slow advance with all your tanks [barring Artillery, naturally] firing with anything you can along the way. No tanks are isolated near or behind enemy lines where they can be quickly picked off and your flanks are protected as you have armour all across the table. This isn't a deliberate assault rush towards the enemy, so stopping to fire off accurate ordnance doesn't hinder the advance. Just a lot of tanks, going slowly and firing the whole way!

The biggest hinderance to an Armoured Company is terrain, especially dense terrain. Playing in cityfights or jungles really puts your tanks at risk as enemy AT units can sneak through the cover and blast at your side, or worse, rear armour. It also presents your enemy with good chances to pop the first tank in a column while it's on a narrow roadway, blocking the path for those behind it. Even if it's only Stunned or Immobilized it will hurt several tanks for a whole turn.

And yes, the Imperial Armour books are definitely worth the price. *waits for IA3*

[TheSonOfAbbadon]

Ork battlewagons can take 5 bolt-on big shootas to be fired by the passengers, which is good because it means they can move the full 12 [or 13 if youre KRAZ-AY enough to take red paint job] inches and still fire 15 S5 AP5 shots 36 inches!

This upgrade is also avalible for Wartrukks, but they can only take one, although Wartrukks only have 1 rokkit launcha or big shoota so they keep it's fire power capabilities at 12" and double them at 6".

[petter]

I am going for a tank heavy Black Templars list (2000 points).

Basically I will have:
3 Rhinos with full sm squads inside,
a LRC with a 14 man squad and a Chaplain in it
a Predator annihilator with side sponson lascannon
and a Vindicator with Power of the machine spirit

also a dreadnought in a drop pod
and a big, tooled up, assault squad.

As this is my first army ever and I have never played a real game in 40k I really do not know exactly how to use these tanks most efficient, my idea is a somewhat slow approach, (the predator will stand back though, taking out enemy tanks) the Vindicator and the LRC will block line of sight for the Rhinos, giving me a chance to make those penetrating hits glancing. The vindicator will stop midways (if it is not a burning wreck at this point ) and softening up the enemies infantry before the Rhinos and LRC delivers its Bolt pistol and ccw marines who finishes of the rest of the enemy troops... that is the idea though

The dread will drop in behind enemy tanks and popping AV10 armour with its assault cannon (hopefully) and later on tie up anti-tank infantry squads...
I am not really sure what to use the assault squad to though... either as an addition to the frontal assault, or to tie up enemy ant-tank squads.

In addition to eventual concerns and opinions about my army and tactics I would like to hear peoples opinions on uses for transport-vehicles after they have deployed their precious cargo. What do you use them for? What works and what does not work at all? Block line of sight, tank shock etc.

[TheSonOfAbbadon]

Methinks a TL autocannon on the dread would be a better tank popper.

Wait, I thought you couldn't use tanks in a drop pod army?

[petter]

Methinks a TL autocannon on the dread would be a better tank popper.

Wait, I thought you couldn't use tanks in a drop pod army?

You can not use a TL autocannon for dreadnoughts, maybe you could in 3. edititon, but not anymore. a TL lascannon would maybe be a better choice, but I do not think it is worth replacing the assault cannon, (It is heavy4 S6 rending now you know?) as (from what I have heard) the assault cannon is better against some types of vehicle armour and much better against infatnry than the lascannon.

No tanks in drop pod armies?...where have you heard that?

[TheSonOfAbbadon]

Someone, maybe on old Portent, was complaining about not being able to take tanks in his army because he used Drop Pods and he needed to drop some special character behind enemy tanks to use his powerful pistol against it's rear armour.

And you can't fit tanks in drop pods.

EDIT: Chaos have TL autocannons for dreads, ha.

[Puffin Magician]

If you used the all-Drop Pod infantry army, you could not take vehicles [everything had to be mounted in a Drop Pod]. You may select a Drop Pod for the Dreadnought in 'standard' armies that include vehicles.

...he needed to drop some special character behind enemy tanks to use his powerful pistol against it's rear armour.

You mean a Plasma Pistol? Not very special!

Imperial Dreadnoughts have access to Twinlinked Autocannons too, see Imperial Armour: Volume Two.

[GuardianoftheFlame]

Are the imperial armor books reaally worth it, I am a student on a low budget. What is the main reason for buying one of these books anyways?

[TheSonOfAbbadon]

I think he said it was Dante he had to drop pod behind tanks...

[Puffin Magician]

Are the imperial armor books reaally worth it, I am a student on a low budget. What is the main reason for buying one of these books anyways?

They contain rules for Forgeworld's products, which aren't found anywhere else. They are beautiful for painting and background reference, and are heavy enough to pummel the most brutish of cheating players, should a game come to that. If you're on a student budget I wouldn't recommend shelling out the £45 each; wait for Birthday/Christmas.

I think he said it was Dante he had to drop pod behind tanks...

Hmm... fair enough, I'd forgot about the Inferno Pistol. Still, it only has a 6" range... if you're going to be that close why not use a standard Character armed with a Plasma Pistol and Power/Chainfist? Also, Dante has a Jump Pack... what's he using a Drop Pod for?

[alterion]

yep the IA books are lovely.. superb for painting and fluff ect... as previously mnetioned it is a great psycological waepon when you pull it out at the begging of a battle and casually drop it on to your opponents weedy 64page codex going.. "now which page was it again?".... just make sure it is a strong table otherwise you may make a hole-if you buy ia1 you will never need to think up a tank camo scheme again.. every veichle in there.. and there are 32 i has at least a full 2 page largrer than a4 spread of colour schemes..

[Hortwerth]

Hmm... fair enough, I'd forgot about the Inferno Pistol. Still, it only has a 6" range... if you're going to be that close why not use a standard Character armed with a Plasma Pistol and Power/Chainfist? Also, Dante has a Jump Pack... what's he using a Drop Pod for?

I think TheSonOfAbaddon is referring to the previous Space Marine codex. It all fits then: you could only use Marines, Land Speeders, Dreadnoughts, Terminators and IIRC Bikes in a Drop Pod army.

Now Drop Pods are just a transport option available to squads in a normal Marine army, so it is possible to have tanks and Drop Podding Dreadnought at the same time.



I used a Deathwing list with 2 Land Raiders and 13 Terminators inside a few years back. I'm planning to return to similar list soon.

With so few tanks on the table, even with 14AV all round it was a tough time with chance playing a distinct part.

I learned that movement can also be used as a weapon: denying LoS to certain targets, constantly on the move, drive-by Terminator assaults... Those were the times!

The psychological aspect of facing only (mostly) tanks should not be ignored - with decent terrain you are able to dictate your opponent what to shoot at.

[Getz]

Ok, seeing as this is Tactica Treadhead, anyone had any fun with massive tank battles lately?

Not so long ago I ran my 2000 pt Armoured Co against an Ork Clan army (I forget which, it's the one that can take lots of looted vehicles) absolutely stuffed full of looted tanks... There was a looted Russ, Basilisk, Chimera and lots more besides, not to mention battlewagons and Trukkboyz. We played on a 6X6 table with relatively open terrain (the rolling hills with some woods scenario) and had an enormous amount of fun blowing each other to bits (Kannon anti-tank shells are almost as good as Vanquisher cannons!) in a massive Kurskalike tank mosh.

I also played my 3000 pt fully mechanised Tau (Three Hammerheads, three Devilfish full of fire warriors, twelve Crisis suits and both my Pathfinder squads in a VDR IFV I call the Stingray) against an equally sized Eldar list stuffed full of Falcons and Wave Serpents about a year or so ago... Again we played on a 6X6 table - which proved to be a bit too small for such mobile armies - and again we had a total blast with our Gazala Gallopesque shenanigens.

Anyone else enjoyed any particularly memorable tank battles?

Anyone had similar fun...

[StrainX]

Not a whole lot of tactical discussion going on here yet, but just to get something going, I would like to put forward some points for the discussion. Perhaps we should think what about understanding the Tank Company is first to know latest rules, from either WD294, or IA Vol 1, and how the dictate the Tank Company's innate stregnths, innate weaknesses, look at the enemy and how they can use their stregnths to exploit AC weaknesses for their victory, and finally how it is that the reverse is true- ie how do we use the both the AC's stegnths and weaknesses as weapons against the enemy.

[scrubout]

Here's some treadhead tactica for you:

Track Guards or not?

I've always heard the extremes of both sides when it came to this tank upgrade. They should always be taken, or never taken. They keep your tanks moving...they keep your tanks firing. Even if you shouldn't take them, are they any exceptions to taking them? Should certain IG vehicles always take them, should some stay away like the bubonic plague?

Like for example...shouldn't the salamander have track guards so it can keep moving fast?

-peace out
scrubout

[Kzer-Za]

For me the Track Guards are a bit of a pandora's box...
I've driven tanks myself and know from experience that any tank that wants to stay operational SHOULD cover their tracks, while on the other hand the rules of Track Guard goes against what I want...

Since each game is only 6 rounds (normally at least) it is vital, especially in an AC, to keep those tanks firing. Both to decimate your opponent for VPs and to keep his assault units off your tail...

The Track Guard downgrades immobilized to stunned...
Thus you can keep moving your next turn, but you cannot fire AT ALL...

This means that as for my own 1500 points armoured company I loose roughly 1/7 of my shootiness in my following round, which may prove catastrophic...
Then again if I only take an immobilized I can shoot freely, albeit not move.
Keeping your tanks at a distance keeps the chances of your adversary using the immobilized result against you though (getting weapon destroyed results on further immobilized results) so you should prove fine...

It is a puzzle to know what you want to do with it, but I choose not to have it, albeit model it with extra plating on to represent extra armour (which is essential to avoid the same stunned result!)

For AC only one thing counts... Keep those guns blazing until there's nothing left of your enemies...

Now when it comes to other vehicles in your army besides the Leman Russ I suppose that the Track guards has their uses... Generally I would say that the shorter the range of your firepower the more essential it gets... Hellhounds with their 24" flames, Chimeras which will deploy troops and suchlike would benefit from it...

Hope this made any sense...

Kzer-Za

[Kzer-Za]

On the other hand this is a treadhead tactica, so I may contribute with a bit more:

For me the AC is a much abused plaything for many gamers, and keep min-maxing it and you will run out of people who wanna play you pretty fast.

There are ways around this:
- Keep your army true to the core fluff for ACs. Read the WD294 sections to understand it, but shortly told:
* No artillery!
Artillery have their own dedicated units and should not be mixed with armoured company since their methods of engagement are so different and limits each other (fluffwise)... An artillery unit knowing that there are enemy in a hillside can pound away, but knowing that an armoured company is underway seriously hinder their freedom of fire. On the other hand the shelling from the artillery limits your movement as an AC commander since you can end up victim of friendly fire...
Thus you should construct your AC as tank OR siege company. I personally prefer the first though, since 9 basilisks thudding away behind some hill gets boring for any foe...

* Aim for balance!
Instead of min-maxing (IE 1 basic leman russ is 155 points thus I should be able to field 8 or nine in 1500 points) or maxing out (IE. any and all upgrades bought for each tanks) try and keep things balanced. give your tanks the vitals in upgrades + anything you think would enhance the coolness factor of the army, and go for numbers afterwards... This should give you a solid core of trained and equipped tanks yet not enough numbers to roll over the enemy without opposition. Thus it becomes a contest to see who wins every time, more nerve-wracking, exciting and fun! Rolling over an enemy is no fun in the long run for either you, or your enemy...

* Find ways around your weaknesses!
The armoured company has serious strengths in its number of tanks, yet lacks the manpower of other guard regiments... This is their weakness, because they are very vulnerable to counter-assaults and assaults.

I choose to leave this weakness for my opponent to try and maximize while I try to minimize it and move around it... Thus it isn't removed which you may more or less accomplish with 3 armoured fist squads to dive forward as speed bumps for the assaulting horde, but a remaining threat which you need to use tactics to avoid.

Personally I will include only 1 armoured fist squad as my only infantry in a 3000 points AC, and that is only to have a marginal chance at succeeding in bunker assaults and other missions which require you to hold objectives...

* Be a good gamer!
You are not the commander of some 42nd millenia armoured company charged with annihilating your enemy! You are a gamer in charge of making sure all players present have fun! Remember this and don't godmode your AC at all times because as stated before people will be hesitant about playing with you if you do...

Kzer-Za

[alterion]

agree w kezar here... however i will always model the gurards on as they look nicer and a lot more realistic...