I cannot decide between a choas giant or a dragon ogre shaggoth. Both models are expensive, look cool and can deal come heavy damage. Any suggestions which one would be best agaisnt empire and orcs?
I cannot decide between a choas giant or a dragon ogre shaggoth. Both models are expensive, look cool and can deal come heavy damage. Any suggestions which one would be best agaisnt empire and orcs?
The Shaggoth. The Giant lacks the potential to have armour and can't really inflict direct damage on a unit in a consistent manner like the Shaggoth can.
Giant:
Pros:
- Cheaper (two thirds the price!)
- Potentially more damaging
- More likely to stick around.
Cons:
- No, or at least significantly less, armour
- Less predictable, higher variance
- Less customizable
- Slower
Shaggoth:
Pros:
- Faster
- More survivable
- Significantly more predictable
- More options
Cons:
- Significantly more expensive
- More likely to panic or break
It's a matter of quantification - is the extra power of the Shaggoth worth the points - and to an extent the role you want it to fill. If it's just going to barge up the centre of the battlefield smashing everything in it's way, I'd probably take the Giant. If it's flank protection, I'd take the Shaggoth. If you want it to snipe the most powerful of the enemy's units... it depends what army you're up against, frankly.
Generally, I'd take the Shaggoth - especially given the armies you face, since the armour issue is significant. However the Giant is often the correct choice, and it depends on your army a lot.
Armies:
- Lizardmen (2000 pts)
- Night Goblins (1250 pts)
- Dark Angels Successors, as yet unnamed. (1800 pts)
- Daemons of Chaos (1000 pts, both games)
for the shaggoth, would giving him the mark of slaanesh deal with the problem of it panicing?
Shaggoths are immune to psy, mark of slaanesh makes it strike first, combine that with a GW and ask Neknoh what to do. Now you will have a much better minion.
You seem to have a mark of tzeench as avatar, note that the tzeentchian shaggoth is one of the best, ask Neknoh why.
A tip: The tzeentchian horror spell is perfect for killing warmachine crew.
Last edited by inq.serge; 21-02-2007 at 15:04.
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They have different battlefield roles, if you want to take out small powerfull units like knights, elite infantry or characters, I would take the Shaggoth.
If you want something that can stand around half the game smashing everything left to right without ever running off, then the Giant is your bet.
The giant feels stronger against huge blocks of infantry, and the Shaggoth feels more specialized, much like the difference between ad poisoned dagger and a huge club.
Now, I'm not saying they can't do both those jobs, a giant is very effective against knights and such as well, and the Shaggot is good against huge blocks, but they excell even more if used correctly.
Personaly I think that the biggest issue is the points cost, which is indeed in the Giants favour, especialy if you want to mark your Shaggoth.
I would go for the Shaggoth because it is cooler and can be used in ways which the Giant cannot, plus the fact that I like to know beforehand my odds for winning and not having to rely on my giant not trying to pick someone up and stuff down his pants...
Originally Posted by Lieutenant Frederic Henry
My Cathayan Project Log
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55836
You cannot mark a shaggoth unless you upgrade it to a hero (or lord?) slot.
Might not be a problem but I'm just reminding you, if you've got full character slots you can't have the nasty 'neeshy shaggoth.
That aside I'd take a shaggoth. Mainly because I'm simple minded and I don't like the fact a giant can't just smack the enemy
...and not a single damn was given that day.
its a shame that shaggoths cannot take magical weapons, i wouldnt mind giving it it the blade of blood. my shaggoth is likely to be my second lord in my hordes army. My lord is ld9 with MofU so my options are ok.
There should be a piece of wargear that lets a beast be a mortal general vice versa since daemons can be a beast general, mortal and daemon general etc... I know there is problems with the background and all that but at the end of the day, it still would be nice.
Hopefully Neknoh will appear soon to help me.
shaggoths are hard, giants are funny. your choice. i take a chaos giant. once, he threw a bretonian knight into a unit of night goblins. the knight survived the impact, stood up, and started fighting the goblins! getting him to put liche priests down his pants is fun too...
All the Moon landings were filmed on a movie set.......ON MARS!
too many armies... too little cash...
giants are far too unreliable IMO for their points value. they should have done better rules for them to show jsut how hard they are
giants are unreliable. but they are fantastic fun; especially when they bellyflop onto a big ranked up unit of infantry.
I perfer the Giant myself. The whole stubborn ld 10 makes him a great choice for holding tough units for several turns. Yes, he is very random. He's the enbodiment of chaos with his crazy rules. Sometimes you don't get the right attack for the job (pick up and stuff down pants when fighting goblins, or getting yell and bawl on the turn you charge a Choas lord on a dragon) but then again, sometimes you get the right roll. I like him because he draws fire like a mutha- and usually kills what he gets ahold of (eventually)! With the Shaggoth's 5 atks, I don't have much hope for him turning the tide of battle or holding down a flank. He's like a greater deamon w/o the flight. He looks good on paper, but doesn't bring enough hurt to win combat on his own and doesn't take a loss too well either.
-Esco ThomsonTreeman only hit you because they love you. They hate it when it has to be this way, but you had to go and open your mouth now. Couldn't just have dinner on the table and keep quiet. You made them do this to you! In reality Treeman are tough, but really only abusive when coupled with the BSB, then in fact you should seek out your local battered gamers shelter.
I also go with the Giant. The saved points allow you to field something to support him with if you choose. Chariots and Dragon Ogres are both good at this. The Shaggoth model is very cool though.
Check my signature, the Tactica Chaotica on my WIP webpage should be of help in this I take it
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The giant!
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Shaggoth... you'd be surprised at how many people underestimate them...
To me, I wouls only take the shaggoth because I love the model. I would never take it as the game breaker you pay points for. Sure, it is a little more resilient than the giant and harder hitting (but certainly no better than a unit of chaos knights and a cheap hero in cc). But it doesn't really do anything different to the rest of your army, It just moves fast and hits hard.
A giant, on the other hand, while being a little fragile and very unreliable, does something nothing else in the chaos army reliably does; it can hold in cc. So against infantry hordes where CR means you have to roll well or bounce off them, of vs very fast armies that can kill a unit before you can get close, giants are very useful because they can hold. It's the stubbornness that you buy giants for, not the cc rules.
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