Tale of 4 gamers, Pre- heresy

[SamaNagol]

If I see any beaks or aquillas i will be most disappointed.

I also STRONGLY disagree with the exclusion of Land Speeders. There were numerous illustrations of them in the HH artwork

[doghouse]

Just read through the rules and have a few suggestions as I have a bit of insight being a bit of a Heresy buff.

First off, assault cannons. Dreadnoughts were originally used as testbed weapons platforms for terminator weapons. So assault cannons would still be viable on vehicles but not on terminators as were Multi-meltas and Plasma Cannons.
Dreadnoughts were common place so wouldn't need to be 0-1, also Venerable dreads would also be an option.
You'd be better off using Chapter Traits to represent the Legions and not allowing vehicles like the Razorback or Landraider Crusader for example.
Landspeeders were common as well, even the Imperial Army had access to them.

[BodhiTree]

I don't really understand the huge issue with Mk.VI. Maybe they're not in the artbooks, I wouldn't know, I don't have them yet - but the IA articles clearly show Pre-Heresy Raven Guard, White Scars, Emperor's Children, Night Lords, Ultramarines, Alpha Legion, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Word Bearers wearing Mk.VI helmets, sometimes in full Mk.VI plate, but some with variations from previous versions. I know GW doesn't mind revising the background it creates, but I don't think it's such a big deal to work with what I've seen, God only knows when GW will revise it again.

[asmodai_dark86]

Samanagol - Landspeeders arent excluded. The tornado is exclusive to certain chapters with good reason. And the Typhoon didnt exist so...
And as for the aquillas - only the emperors children could wear it.

Doghouse -
Assault Cannons - this is a fierce bit of contention, and one thats easily dealt with. By having a limit. You'll also notice that the limit does not include dreads. So in practice you could have one termie with an assault cannon and one dread with assault cannon. They werent in wide use, but they were in use. Plus it can always assumed to be an autocannon (as proxy)

Melta weapons - I've made these Salamanders only for a few reasons.
1) Salamanders do that kind of thing. They like fire.
2) It fits there tactics
3) Barring deciding the equipment of every marine that can pick from the armour, which is something I wouldnt do, its one of the few things to make them unique.

Dreads and Venerables - If only the chapters heros get put in dreads, and this is the start of the heresy where marines are running rampant, then theres simply no room for dozens of dreads. Even if there were the same amount as are in storage for some of the first founding chapters now, the legions were massive so they'd be well spread. The reason for no venerables is simple - venerable to mean means ancient. Bjorn the fell-handed of the space wolves is a venerable dread. He's been kicking around a few millenia. The dreads of the pre-heresy havent, its that simple.


I know some of the restrictions seem odd at first, but...
- If meltas were a ready option, would flammers or heavy bolters be used knowing your likely to face marines? I know a lot of people involved in this project aren't doing anything beardy, but theres always one who'll be tempted to kit every model for marine hunting.
- Sniper rifles seem an odd thing to restrict, but suits the Alpha Legions style. requiring a unit of assault marines of blood angels might seem annoying, but fits in in with the whole sanguinous(sp?) thing.
- The restrictions arent there forever, and will evolve. The dreadnought limit will be lifted in time, Tornados will open up. I just wanted to encourage people to build armies that reflect there legion
- Traits are something thats open to interpretation, plus the legions are huge and your section might differ slightly to the regular (my army is going to include a captain for example, rather then two librarians)
- I want story lines to be reflected in the list. If for example, the thousand sons get told of for sorcery by everyone involved, they might turn towards faith and have to include a chaplian if they include a librarian. Or perhaps the word bearers will need to include more assault troops, representing them stepping up there campaign, or the world eaters... etc etc etc


Sorry doghouse if it seems like I'm having a go, but yeh a few people have pointed out things like I havent thought them through... When I have

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

If I see any beaks or aquillas i will be most disappointed.

I also STRONGLY disagree with the exclusion of Land Speeders. There were numerous illustrations of them in the HH artwork

I will only use a beaky when i have run out of MkIV armour i have 30 n i plan for 39 marines either that or normal Space marine head with a plasticcard grill

[rickie8437]

jerico has left us and the world eater are free does any one mine if i change legions as i perfer close assault armys than say an army like the alpha legion

if some one minds i will stick with the alpha leghion and let some one else do the world eaters but i would like to try them as i have found some cool idears for what todo for them

rick

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

i thought jerhico had ultras? if u do deside to take world eaters ill do the alpha legion
· Alpha legion - rickie8437
· Blood Angles - shaw3029
· Dark angles - evil Homer
· Deathguard – Ornithorticus
· Emperor's Children -meneptah
· Imperial fist - dave is the best
· Iron warriors - EmperorsChampion01
· Iron Hands are still untaken
· Luna wolves - teh_siolder
· Night Lords - doghouse
· Raven guard - bodhitree
· Salamaders - arch traitor hours
· Space wolves – weregerbil
· Thousand Sons - asmodai_dark86
· White Scars – sarabando
· Word Bearers - cyphertheory
· World Eaters- SamaNagol
· Ultramarines - Jericho?
that was the last list however someone has iron hands

[SamaNagol]

I'm already doing the WE.

When you say Tornado, I am talking about the Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter rig. These are repeatedly shown in the HH artwork. And while it isn't necessarily canon, the proliferation of these appearing in the artwork would indicate they are considered as being around.

I have a big big issue with beakies being in an PRE-Heresy army. There is no way it should happen. technically there shouldn't be any Mk V in a PRE-heresy army either, but you could get away with it.

I have a big issue with beakies being in any Heresy army which wasn't present at the siege of terra on earth at all. You really are talking about the very end of the heresy before VI was brought in to use, and even then it was only those legions in and around Mars/Terra that would have had access to it.

Melta weapons were around a lot, however multi meltas were almost exclusively weapon mounted. Plasma I believe has been ret-conned into being available more during the Heresy than now, however in 2nd Ed they had the whole Mk I and Mk II Plasma weaponry situation where they were considerably different.

The IA articles show examples of schemes, they aren't necessarily truthful representations of actual armour worn during the Heresy.

I think we should discuss what is and isn't acceptable, and if you can't afford to stay within the imagery then maybe you might not be suited to this project?

Also, will we be including some helpful tips for converting up older marks of armour? Like changing over kneepads to represent Mk IV armour to go with those funky Red Scorpions bits I am sure lots of us have? Perhaps even how to make a neat stud making tool out of a toothbrush handle? How to convert Mk VII helmets into Mk III using only a pair of clippers and some green stuff for those on a budget.....

That stuff proved REALLY useful to me, so if anyone wants any assistance feel free to ask.

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

k Rickie do u want ultras cause if you dont want them ill take them after a while seeing if no1 will take them?

also on the topic of MkIII i saw it done with little plasticard mouth cover gill things and looked ok IMHO

[rickie8437]

do you have the rules pack so i can see what they have and dont have

[rickie8437]

are you not doing the salamanders or you going to do both of them

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

both thats y i was gonna wait and see if anyone else wanted them

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

The following are all restricted choices, and only available to those Legions as indicated below;
Master of Sanctity
Epistolarys
Company Champions
Land Speeder Tornados
Vindicators
Gun servitors
Librarian Familiars
Holy Relics
Venerable Dreadnoughts
Melta weapons
Sniper Rifles
Terminator command squad
Terminator assault squad
Castellan missiles (for the whirlwind)

1 assault cannon

- Ultramarines
May take an Ultramarines honour guard at the points cost listed, or a second terminator squad. They can also take assault terminators.

How ever i dont think ultras should have 0-1 because the legion was that bloody big even horus was scared of them with his allies

[rickie8437]

no no its ok ultras dont do it for me, to googie goodie

justs wondered if you didnt want to the salam thats all

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

nah i love my salies 2 much to let them go

[rickie8437]

thats ok do you want the alpha legion ?

as i will do the smurfs

just been looking in the artbooks and some real nice pics of them in there plus i like the houner guard models?

that is if your intrested in the aplhas

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

alphas look cool but dont really fit in my plan 4 the army lol

[rickie8437]

ok i will stick with the alpha legion if you have your eye on the ultrsmurfs

[Arch-Traitor Horus]

nah have what ever you want I'm fine with 1 army doing the other legion in my own project log thread

[rickie8437]

ok then i will take the ultasmurfs and leave the alpha legion to some one else

rick