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Thread: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

  1. #7561
    Chapter Master Irisado's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    The Empress of Mars was really poor. It was woefully predictable and rather boring. A very disappointing return for an old foe.
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  2. #7562
    Chapter Master theunwantedbeing's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    The Eaters of Light
    That was better, not great but thankfully not objectively bad.
    I did get up to make myself a coffee mid-way into the episode though, didn't seem all that historically accurate so I missed whatever happened with the black stuff on her and how the doctor found her.
    I don't see why the threat had to be universe ending, the creature didn't seem like a universe ending threat in the slightest.

    Next one looks more interesting, as it always seems to.....
    Plan B kill it with fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanaldLoec View Post
    I would have to agree with The Unwantedbeing as he is a paragon of sense and reason in an unreasonable environment.

  3. #7563
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Quote Originally Posted by theunwantedbeing View Post
    The Eaters of Light
    That was better, not great but thankfully not objectively bad.
    I'd largely agree. Was a little bored by the dismissive lecturing, but didn't feel it was awful.

    I did get up to make myself a coffee mid-way into the episode though, didn't seem all that historically accurate so I missed whatever happened with the black stuff on her and how the doctor found her.
    It wasn't, unsurprisingly, accurate.
    But you missed: she sat in a random shaft of sunlight in the cave system, so it went away (which... seems counter to the nature of the creature) and...
    he didn't. She talked the survivors into leaving the amazingly extensive cave system, and by walking down a tunnel and climbing a ladder into the main hut, so she basically rescued herself, after the requisite moral anvil about what encompasses sexual norms. Naturally a red shirt got eaten in the process.

    Er, the process of spelunking. Not during the episodic reminder that Bill is entirely gay and we're certainly not making a big deal about it by bringing it up randomly in situations where it isn't vaguely relevant. Every episode. I get treating her sexuality as normal, but that's best approached by actually treating it as normal, not rolling in a soapbox every episode as a substitute for letting her interact with women at all. Don't have the pope or the UN Secretary General interrupt her sad attempt at a hookup, just have her go on a date sometime. They got it fairly right in the first episode, then bollixed it ever since.

    I don't see why the threat had to be universe ending, the creature didn't seem like a universe ending threat in the slightest.
    Yeah, that seemed quite the jump- it didn't even seem to be based on anything, the Doctor just exposited that it was, randomly, a threat to the entire universe, and not, say, an alien space wolf. It was basically a Dark Eldar Khymera, and fair enough, it ate people (in a weird tentacle-y way). How it would make the sun go out and how more creatures would wander in then wander off to eat the stars is a bit of a mystery.

    But then I'm not sure how things were solved. Sure, they added more of the temporary stopgap, but... well, odds. By rights the world should have ended around 1000-1500, even if they somehow added up linearly.
    Last edited by Voss; 18-06-2017 at 03:14.
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  4. #7564
    Chapter Master theunwantedbeing's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    World Enough and Time
    John Simm does a pretty good Zathras impersonation.
    Plan B kill it with fire
    Meat is Murder tasty, tasty murder
    Quote Originally Posted by RanaldLoec View Post
    I would have to agree with The Unwantedbeing as he is a paragon of sense and reason in an unreasonable environment.

  5. #7565
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Quote Originally Posted by theunwantedbeing View Post
    World Enough and Time
    John Simm does a pretty good Zathras impersonation.
    I had that same thought. not!Zathras being Zathras was the one thing that kept the episode going while waiting for everyone to twig to the basics of the scenario being set up.

    The end did manage to surprise me, however- fairly well done though I can't figure out how it logically makes any sort of sense.

    Better than the rest of the season put together just for not messing about anymore and bringing the B plot to the fore where it always deserved to be.

    Best lines of the season came in the kitchen. Roughly the
    'She's the person most like me in the entire universe'
    'So you want her to be a good person, yeah?'
    '...'

    Bill is kind of a terrible companion. She repeatedly just doesn't get it.
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  6. #7566
    Chapter Master Irisado's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    This was much more like it. A decent plot and a linear story, which actually finally made me get engaged with what was happening. This is what Doctor Who is supposed to be like. I really hope that they do not mess up the finale, as it has the potential to be excellent.
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  7. #7567
    Chapter Master C-Coen's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Agreed - although I haven't disliked the past series as much as some, most episodes were rather middle-of-the-road affairs. Not bad, not great (or even good). The three-parter was quite a mess. My only gripe with this one was the amount of info leaked by the bloody trailer at the end of the previous episode (wasn't quite fast enough to turn it off), but I guess it's even stronger for still being interesting despite that.

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  8. #7568
    Chapter Master theunwantedbeing's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    The Doctor Falls
    Back into the pit where all crap doctor who episodes come from....
    Plan B kill it with fire
    Meat is Murder tasty, tasty murder
    Quote Originally Posted by RanaldLoec View Post
    I would have to agree with The Unwantedbeing as he is a paragon of sense and reason in an unreasonable environment.

  9. #7569
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Yeah, that was awful, even by the standards of the last couple years. Massive plot holes, a Deus Ex Machina, gibberish solutions (that don't actually solve anything), and no explanation of where or why the Doctor's final personality trait came from.

    Plot Hole the Biggest: last episode they established that the ship was (very slowly) moving away from the black hole. Last episode, the time differential was 10 years. This time, being lower down in the ship & the ship being further away... now thousands of years would pass as they traveled back up? What? By moving _away_, the time differential is now exponentially bigger?

    Also, any Cybermen coming after them would pass through the same time differentials (and also have to travel from further). So... at no point are they going 'catch up.' If it takes X years to go from their floor to the top, it would ALSO take the cybermen X years to go from that floor to the top, and also plus Y time it takes to get to that floor. Zeno's paradox doesn't become valid in space.

    Also, the cybermen can't multiply indefinitely. Especially if they've started converting children. If they're losing most of their numbers to the baffling multiple internal explosions that somehow don't affect the ship (a situation which is usually quite bad for space ships), they run out of numbers. At some point all the humans are gone, and the cybermen don't repopulate.


    Finally a huge congrats to the writers for making the only interesting strand throughout the entire bloody season completely pointless. And the 'rescue' completely pointless. In some amount of time the cyber armies will mosey through the refugees like wheat.

    Also congrats for largely recycling the major features of Asylum of the Daleks. Because that lack of awareness is nonsensical and ludicrous.

    But hey, given that every advertising break (and BBC America has many) featured Fiji Water, I'm going with the theory that it is just that miraculous, it can pull off the Deus Ex Machina(s) all by itself.
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  10. #7570
    Chapter Master Irisado's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Plot holes aside, and to be honest they really don't bother me as much as some of you, so long as the story is actually remotely engaging and enjoyable, I liked this episode. Yes, certain elements of the narrative didn't make sense, but the acting was of a very high standard and I actually cared about what was going to happen. That, to me, means that it was a good episode. In addition, the re-introduction of the Pilot was cleverly executed and rather touching.

    Regarding one of the supposed plot holes. Cybermen don't necessarily follow the law of time in the same way. They can blast through the ship at high speed. To my mind, this means that they could bypass the time issue to a significant extent. As a result, I'm not so sure that was a plot hole, rather it was just poorly explained.
    Last edited by Irisado; 02-07-2017 at 10:29.
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  11. #7571
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    Plot holes aside, and to be honest they really don't bother me as much as some of you, so long as the story is actually remotely engaging and enjoyable, I liked this episode. Yes, certain elements of the narrative didn't make sense, but the acting was of a very high standard and I actually cared about what was going to happen. That, to me, means that it was a good episode. In addition, the re-introduction of the Pilot was cleverly executed and rather touching.

    Regarding one of the supposed plot holes. Cybermen don't necessarily follow the law of time in the same way. They can blast through the ship at high speed. To my mind, this means that they could bypass the time issue to a significant extent. As a result, I'm not so sure that was a plot hole, rather it was just poorly explained.
    No, they do follow linear time in the same way. As for blasting through hundreds of ship-grade floors which chasing a high speed elevator that makes no stops....no. Blasting through the hundreds of floors (and yet more structural damage to this poor ship, which obviously has its internal gravity pointed down) is _not_ going to be faster, no matter how super the cybermen (suddenly) are.

    As for reintroducing the magic water of unlimited power? Yes, rather bad touching. The possessed corpse of a girl she barely knew showed up and liquified her brain and the butchered remains of her body, using an infection vector she previously hadn't known about to convert her to something alien yet again. Though granted liquifying her butchered remains was probably a plus.

    I wonder if they're going to use the fact that the Doctor is also infected in the Christmas special (beyond the drops on the forehead which magically kickstarted his regeneration, he fondled her tears several times), or if they're just going to handwave it.

    I honestly disagree with the acting as well. Some of them tried, but it was very stilted, and as usual, aside from the more interesting B plot, very forced. They got the lines out, but there wasn't much meaning behind them, probably because they actors could make even less sense of them than we can.
    Last edited by Voss; 02-07-2017 at 16:09.
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  12. #7572
    Chapter Master theunwantedbeing's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    In addition, the re-introduction of the Pilot was cleverly executed and rather touching.
    I think I'de have liked it better if they'de done a bit of foreshadowing during episodes 2-11.
    My gripe was that Bills last words to the Doctor were essentially just "my whole deal is being a lesbian"

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    Regarding one of the supposed plot holes. Cybermen don't necessarily follow the law of time in the same way. They can blast through the ship at high speed. To my mind, this means that they could bypass the time issue to a significant extent. As a result, I'm not so sure that was a plot hole, rather it was just poorly explained.
    Yeah it was poorly explained.
    Time is followed properly by everyone.
    Lower down the ship where the Cybermen are time moves at a faster pace to higher up the ship where the doctor is and where the tardis is, which is moving the slowest of all.
    As a result the Cybermen have loads of time to regroup and figure out a way to stop the lift travelling more than a few floors, what that way is doesn't matter.
    The lift incidentally isn't a superfast high speed one, it just appeared that way from the slow end of the ship due to the time dilation effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanaldLoec View Post
    I would have to agree with The Unwantedbeing as he is a paragon of sense and reason in an unreasonable environment.

  13. #7573
    Chapter Master Angelwing's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Empress of Mars / Eaters of light - interesting enough for stand alone who adventures

    World enough and Time / Fall of the Doctor - interesting concept ruined by the ridiculously prevalent spoilers campaign (official and otherwise). Lots of dodgy plot holes, and it could have run without the Master / Missy ever being in it - they basically didn't do anything except exit stage left in a whimper. A shameful waste of John and Michelle. I will miss Michelle as Missy. She's sexy, fun, mischievous, mad and bad all at the same time.
    On the other hand, I liked the numerous oldwho references, and the use of Bill seeing herself as normal but everyone else seeing her for what she has become. The spoiler for christmas looks interesting - I presume this fits in at the end of the tenth planet story arc.

    Overall this has been a sweeping the decks clear affair for the fresh start next year - a fresh start thats sorely needed. This series overall has been mediocre. The first episode was the best one in my eyes. I said of previous 12th Doctor series that I'd doubt I'd choose any of them if I fancied re watching some Who. My opinion hasn't changed for this series either. A real pity - I feel the characters have been shoved under a bus somewhat. The potential was there and glimmers of greatness showed through. It could have been 'Fantastic!' but we got 'Wibbly wobbly' .

  14. #7574
    Chapter Master Irisado's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    No, they do follow linear time in the same way. As for blasting through hundreds of ship-grade floors which chasing a high speed elevator that makes no stops....no. Blasting through the hundreds of floors (and yet more structural damage to this poor ship, which obviously has its internal gravity pointed down) is _not_ going to be faster, no matter how super the cybermen (suddenly) are.
    Does it matter if it's unrealistic? I still maintain that all of this was just poorly explained, rather than this huge plot hole that you're portraying it to be. Cybermen are capable of all sorts of superhuman feats. Who is to say that they could not blast through floors in that manner? There definitely needed to be a more comprehensive explanation about how the ship held together, but given its size this was possible. It just needed to be explained.

    As for reintroducing the magic water of unlimited power? Yes, rather bad touching. The possessed corpse of a girl she barely knew showed up and liquified her brain and the butchered remains of her body, using an infection vector she previously hadn't known about to convert her to something alien yet again. Though granted liquifying her butchered remains was probably a plus.
    It's not completely clear what she has become and what she has done to Bill, so let's not prejudge the outcome before being in possession of all the information. It was a touching scene, because there is an emotional bond between them.
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  15. #7575
    Chapter Master forthegloryofkazadekrund's Avatar
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Peter Capaldi's replacement will be revealed after the Wimbledon Men's final.
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  16. #7576
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    Re: "ZOMG! Doctor Who (& Torchwood)!"

    Quote Originally Posted by forthegloryofkazadekrund View Post
    Peter Capaldi's replacement will be revealed after the Wimbledon Men's final.
    And now it's done and we've got to wait until some time next year when season 11 starts to find out if they're any good as the Doctor or not.
    Plan B kill it with fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanaldLoec View Post
    I would have to agree with The Unwantedbeing as he is a paragon of sense and reason in an unreasonable environment.

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