imperator titans

[MrBigMr]

What's so spooky?

[Llothlian]

That we made a post with the same points, using the same examples at exactly the same time.

[RCgothic]

Of course titans are vulnerable to lascannons. They punch through just about anything, there are plenty of systems that don't like even small holes appearing in them. A company of lascannon weilding guardsmen would put down a titan faster than the titan could reply.

Without even peircing the armour, just look at the number of exposed systems on a model of a warhound! You only need to look the model to imagine the havok a lascannon penetrating the cockpit would do. I can clearly imagine the hip joint of a Reaver siezing after being skewered by a lascannon. Reactor containment units don't like having holes in them either.

Look at the models, and seriously tell me that a Lascannon, that can obliterate normal tanks in one hit aren't a threat, because they clearly are.

[MrBigMr]

Oh, didn't notice that.

I think in some cultures that means we're engaged now.

[Iracundus]

Originally Posted by Llothlian

I already stated that titans are not immune to any weapons. I said a titan (of any calibre) is effectively immune to a Guardsman with a Lascannon. What exactly is he likely to do against one? Really? Titans, by all fluff and rules, are extremely difficult to take down with regular fire. A Lascannon will destroy a Leman Russ with a direct hit most of the time, and even stands a chance of taking down a Baneblade or equivalent. There is no way (at all) that it can destroy a titan. None. The only way to do it is mass fire, or specialist weapons.

Interesting backpedalling:

Quote

They are immune to all fire except weaponry specifically designed to take them down. A battle group of Baneblades can be defeated by Guardsmen with Lascannons. The Guardsmen wouldn't stand a chance against any sort of Titan (or even Knights)...

In that same quote only a page earlier, you DO claim that Titans are immune to all weapons other than other Titan weapons, now you backpedal and then waffle on about the power of artillery even though previously it had been dismissed along with all other non specific Titan killing weaponry.

In Storm of Iron, as someone else already pointed out, a single Chaos Marine shoots and destroys a Titan with a combi-melta. A lascannon at close range has the same ability of potentially destroying a Titan. It may be unlikely but a non-negligible chance exists and has always existed in both background and rules. "Difficult to take down" is not the same as being immune and being able to ignore it totally.

Nor is the situation one of enemy army + Titan vs. army for those that are trying to invoke the "oh but you would be distracted by the OTHER units accompanying the Titan". The situation discussed was whether or not Titans are so uber invulnerable that they can just blithely ignore lesser enemy units and waltz through an enemy line, uncaring of anything less than Titan weapons. As the examples posted by me and other posters have shown, Titans have been taken out by individuals, tanks, artillery fire, all of which are not specifically designed Titan killers. So far there is as yet still not one shred of proof supporting Titans unthreatened by any weaponry other than Titan weaponry. Simple categorical opinion statements of "Titans are immune to lascannons" isn't proof.

[Llothlian]

Iracundus, I am going to walk away from here now, keeping my opinions of your reading comprehension and ability to completely ignore entire sections of posts (plus other, slightly less polite opinions formed about your good self).

At least I got an engagement ring from MrBigMr.

Originally Posted by RCgothic

Of course titans are vulnerable to lascannons. They punch through just about anything, there are plenty of systems that don't like even small holes appearing in them. A company of lascannon weilding guardsmen would put down a titan faster than the titan could reply.

Without even peircing the armour, just look at the number of exposed systems on a model of a warhound! You only need to look the model to imagine the havok a lascannon penetrating the cockpit would do. I can clearly imagine the hip joint of a Reaver siezing after being skewered by a lascannon. Reactor containment units don't like having holes in them either.

Look at the models, and seriously tell me that a Lascannon, that can obliterate normal tanks in one hit aren't a threat, because they clearly are.

Voids.

[Iracundus]

Originally Posted by Llothlian

Iracundus, I am going to walk away from here now, keeping my opinions of your reading comprehension and ability to completely ignore entire sections of posts (plus other, slightly less polite opinions formed about your good self).

Translation: I can't win the debate as I have no proof and others have disproven my point with citations and shown with my own quotes I backpedaled over my initial point so rather than admit losing I am going to try and save face by insulting the other side and claiming myself to be too good to continue.

[RCgothic]

Multiple Lascannons. Void shields only have a certain capacity, and after absorbing that much they have to shut down to recharge.

[Shield of Freedom]

Let's get back to modeling one.

Here's an idea. Find a twelve year old that can actually stand still long enough and dress him up in a robot costume. Make him stand on the table and tell him when, where, and how far to move and to where he should point for his guns.

Viola!

[zendral]

Originally Posted by Shield of Freedom

Let's get back to modeling one.

Here's an idea. Find a twelve year old that can actually stand still long enough and dress him up in a robot costume. Make him stand on the table and tell him when, where, and how far to move and to where he should point for his guns.

Viola!

Hope you bring a bucket. Damn if he has to wiz.

I can attest to those "lucky hits". Had an epic battle with my warhound once. Warhound took on an "ancients assault force" i.e. a buttload of venerable dreads. They flanked my warhound, warhound spent most of the game fighting them off and taking them down. Once the smoke cleared, a stray hunter-killer missle from the other side of the battle comes out of nowhere and strikes a critical hit....and another...and another...then boom.

Originally Posted by mightymconeshot

So a what does skittari look like. any one have any pics or sources. Secondly what would be a good point cost. So far there have been 5k points 6k points 8k points and then 10k points.

link to skitarii info

There really is no pic for them. Just use imagination. It might be worth to note that Dan Abnett describes them as wearing animal skins and that a skittarii vs. skittarii battle can be more ferocious than astartes. But thats an authors statement. For pts cost, I would not go lower than 5000. somewhere in the 6k area depending on weapon rules.

[cuda1179]

I am currenlty in the process of making a Warmonger titan. I am basically in the design stage trying to figure out how I cam make it look good with materials I have or can find.

My biggest problem is finding large enough plasticard. When I build my Warlord the plasticard was just barely big enough. Anyone know a good retailer that has sheets bigger than 8x12 inches?

As for size, I'd say around 20 inches for a Warlord, 30-36 for an Imperator class. It just makes them look right when compared to the other titans from Forgeworld/Armorcast. Look at the volume differance between a Warhound and a Reaver. That equals three structure points. Now add that volume again to get a Warlord.

Time to discuss weapons.

For my Warmonger it will have a BS of 4. Although it will have a targeting array (can be chosen on a weapon destroyed result) that increases the BS to 5.
Four Hyrda Turrets on the top with 360 degrees of fire.
A landing pad for a weaponless lightning equivelent. Anything that is within 24 inches of the spotter aircraft counts as within range without being in cover.
Two single barreled Turbo Lasers on the Head
Right Arm has a Warlord Volcano cannon and 8 vortex missiles
Left arm has a (can't remember name) but will be Ord. 3, R 144, St. D, AP 1. 10 inch blast, twin-linked. Anything under the hole counts as being hit with a Vortex Grenade.

Armor 14-14-14 Any shots from the front do not get to use bonus dice for penetration.

18 structure points and 12 void sheilds.

What do you think, 9,000 points?

[Iracundus]

Originally Posted by cuda1179

I am currenlty in the process of making a Warmonger titan. I am basically in the design stage trying to figure out how I cam make it look good with materials I have or can find.

My biggest problem is finding large enough plasticard. When I build my Warlord the plasticard was just barely big enough. Anyone know a good retailer that has sheets bigger than 8x12 inches?

As for size, I'd say around 20 inches for a Warlord, 30-36 for an Imperator class. It just makes them look right when compared to the other titans from Forgeworld/Armorcast. Look at the volume differance between a Warhound and a Reaver. That equals three structure points. Now add that volume again to get a Warlord.

Time to discuss weapons.

For my Warmonger it will have a BS of 4. Although it will have a targeting array (can be chosen on a weapon destroyed result) that increases the BS to 5.
Four Hyrda Turrets on the top with 360 degrees of fire.
A landing pad for a weaponless lightning equivelent. Anything that is within 24 inches of the spotter aircraft counts as within range without being in cover.
Two single barreled Turbo Lasers on the Head
Right Arm has a Warlord Volcano cannon and 8 vortex missiles
Left arm has a (can't remember name) but will be Ord. 3, R 144, St. D, AP 1. 10 inch blast, twin-linked. Anything under the hole counts as being hit with a Vortex Grenade.

Armor 14-14-14 Any shots from the front do not get to use bonus dice for penetration.

18 structure points and 12 void sheilds.

What do you think, 9,000 points?

Some overpowered and inaccurate points.
1) The right arm with the missile racks doesn't carry an additional cannon in addition, just missiles (from Adeptus Titanicus II entry and datsheet).

2) The guns in the head, again from the datasheet, don't appear to be the same power and magnitude as turbo lasers.

3) The Devastation Cannon which is on the left arm is overpowered and certainly doesn't deserve the Vortex rules as from the Adeptus Titanicus II sheet it is a longer ranged, 2 shot Volcano cannon. If a Volcano cannon doesn't grant Vortex rules, the Devastation Cannon shouldn't either.

4) You neglected the point defense guns of the bastions.

5) The Sensorium increased weapon range not accuracy. This fit with the ultimate role of the Warmonger as a fire support Titan, providing long range support and artillery fire.

The Imperator was the front line combat Emperor class Titan. The Warmonger was the fire support, so you shouldn't be trying to make the Warmonger the last word in direct front line firepower.

[mightymconeshot]

Originally Posted by zendral

There really is no pic for them. Just use imagination. It might be worth to note that Dan Abnett describes them as wearing animal skins and that a skittarii vs. skittarii battle can be more ferocious than astartes. But thats an authors statement. For pts cost, I would not go lower than 5000. somewhere in the 6k area depending on weapon rules.

Thank you very much. This is just what I am looking for.

Originally Posted by cuda1179

I am currenlty in the process of making a Warmonger titan. I am basically in the design stage trying to figure out how I cam make it look good with materials I have or can find.

Good luck to you sir.

Originally Posted by Shield of Freedom

Let's get back to modeling one.

Here's an idea. Find a twelve year old that can actually stand still long enough and dress him up in a robot costume. Make him stand on the table and tell him when, where, and how far to move and to where he should point for his guns.

Viola!

The greatest idea I have ever heard. Anyone know where to get a 12 yearold whos parents would not care?

Point of Fact
I did not make this so you can get into arguments over the ability of lesser weapons destroying or taking down a titan. Please do not take up pages of arguments no matter how wrong the other person is. Titans die to anything that shoots or walks. A baby could destroy one with enough time.

[Starchild]

Originally Posted by Llothlian

I already stated that titans are not immune to any weapons. I said a titan (of any calibre) is effectively immune to a Guardsman with a Lascannon. What exactly is he likely to do against one? Really? Titans, by all fluff and rules, are extremely difficult to take down with regular fire.

Actually, in Epic Space Marine and Adeptus Titanicus, a lascannon could take out a Titan with a lucky shot, by hitting the plasma reactor and forcing a meltdown after all the void shields were taken out. But the player could never be entirely sure of hitting the target area, since a dice was rolled to see if the shot 'scattered' to a different area (i.e., the shot missed). Too, Titans had different armour saves for different areas. The plasma reactor usually had the thickest armour, normally 1+. A lascannon inflicted a -2 modifier to armour saves, so a Titan would get a 3+ save in this example.

IIRC, the Imperator had not one, but three plasma reactor "wounds". No meltdown was possible on an Imperator until the reactor had been successfully hit and damaged three times. So no, it isn't easy to take out a Titan with 40k-scale heavy weapons, but it is possible if you have lots of them firing volley after volley!

[Iracundus]

Originally Posted by Starchild

Actually, in Epic Space Marine and Adeptus Titanicus, a lascannon could take out a Titan with a lucky shot, by hitting the plasma reactor and forcing a meltdown after all the void shields were taken out. But the player could never be entirely sure of hitting the target area, since a dice was rolled to see if the shot 'scattered' to a different area (i.e., the shot missed). Too, Titans had different armour saves for different areas. The plasma reactor usually had the thickest armour, normally 1+. A lascannon inflicted a -2 modifier to armour saves, so a Titan would get a 3+ save in this example.

IIRC, the Imperator had not one, but three plasma reactor "wounds". No meltdown was possible on an Imperator until the reactor had been successfully hit and damaged three times. So no, it isn't easy to take out a Titan with 40k-scale heavy weapons, but it is possible if you have lots of them firing volley after volley!

Not quite. You misremember the reactor bit.

http://netepic.org/PRIMARCH/IMPERATO...MPLATE%201.JPG
http://netepic.org/PRIMARCH/IMPERATO...MPLATE%202.JPG

It shows the damage table and location template (including armor saves)for the old Imperator Titan from Titan Legion days, unmodified and unedited. Of the locations eligible from the front, a single lascannon shot had multiple ways of one shotting an Imperator once shields are down or bypassed:

1) Penetrating Mind Impulse Unit location and scoring 5-6 on the damage table, wiping the minds of the crew or killing them

2) Penetrating Bridge location and scoring 5-6 on the damage table, killing the crew

3) Penetrating Leg location and scoring 5-6 on the damage table, destroying the leg and collapsing the Titan

4) Penetrating Engine location and scoring 6, destroying engine and chain reacting to roll damage to all 3 Gyro locations. If 3-6 is scored on damage tables for all 3 Gyro locations, Titan falls and is destroyed

5) Penetrating a Reactor Link location, scoring a 6, chain reacting back to the Reactor and scoring a 5-6 triggering a reactor explosion and Titan destruction

6) Penetrating a Primary Weapon Coupling, scoring a 6, blowing off an arm weapon, chain reacting back to the hull, scoring a 5-6 to affect the reactor and then rolling another 5-6 to trigger reactor explosion

7) Penetrating a Primary Weapon, scoring a 6, exploding the weapon and potentially damaging adjacent locations which include the possibility of an Engine, Reactor Link and Primary Weapon Coupling hit, which each of which could then destroy the Titan as already detailed above.

8) Penetrating the Main Battery weapon location above the Mind Impulse Unit, scoring a 6, causing a chain reaction then rolling "Down" on the Aim Dice to affect the Mind Impulse Unit and rolling 5-6 to mind wipe the crew or kill them.

[Urgat]

Hop!

http://i26.tinypic.com/23mjph.jpg

There's space marines going out of its feet, so now you should be able to really tell how big it is?

Seems the gargant next to it is *******' large too, btw

There's a close up on the feet section on some White Dwarf cover, that's what I was looking for on google, actually (I'm not at home), but I found that instead... If anybody's up for browsing through their WD...

[Penguin of Death]

Originally Posted by Urgat

Hop!

http://i26.tinypic.com/23mjph.jpg

There's space marines going out of its feet, so now you should be able to really tell how big it is?

Even if you scale the guys in it's feet as being normal human sized (I used 1.75m) then the Imp comes out as around 65 to the top of his head and 90m to the estimated top of the castle
At this scale it even looks like it could house companise of troops in it's legs
It makes the head about 6-7m wide which seems reasonable for a command deck
The Vulcan comes out around10-15m total diameter which IIRC is comparable to the one in Dawn of War

[BigRob]

If its any help to the argument about weapons that can take down an Imperator, in a WD battle reoprt, an ork infantry formations small arms fire was able to blow the hellstorm canon off an Imperator with a lucky shot.

It just goes to show that it is just another very big vehicle at the end of the day. It can be damaged by smaller weapons, but not very easily. A gang of orks standing by its legs getting a lucky hit can knock out bits of the titan. Those same orks firing from across the city will watch their shots bounce off the voids without taking them down.

IA3: The tau fliers take down the warhounds with railguns, AFTER a barrage of missiles from their missile pods. Once again it takes a large amount of fire power to put on the hurt.

Scale this up and 1 guardsman with a lascannon is very unlikley to hurt an Imperator unless he has a company of his buddies to concentrate their fire and force the voids down. Then his buddy in the shadowsword can put the unshielded titan firmly in the hurt locker.

[IJW]

Originally Posted by Llothlian

I already stated that titans are not immune to any weapons. I said a titan (of any calibre) is effectively immune to a Guardsman with a Lascannon. What exactly is he likely to do against one?

Take down one of the Void Shields, followed by the other few platoons taking down the rest of the Void Shields, followed by the rest of the company hitting the Titan itself.

Yes, it's pretty clear that a single Lascannon team is going to do almost nothing - but that's not a situation that's likely to occur, given the numbers of Guard that tend to turn up...

[MrBigMr]

Originally Posted by BigRob

If its any help to the argument about weapons that can take down an Imperator, in a WD battle reoprt, an ork infantry formations small arms fire was able to blow the hellstorm canon off an Imperator with a lucky shot.

Maybe they just really, really, really believed they could do it?