Beasts of Chaos Rumour Summary

[decker_cky]

Gors I don't agree with....beast herds need minimal tweaking to be great again, but that's how I think bestigors should be made unique among elites. 2 wounds and maybe something else like raiders (or even the suggested banner).

[Farsot]

I really hope they never ever go back to 2 wounds again now that they have turned the Beastmen into a quite tactical army and I hope they continue with the slightly more move and possition oriented options for the army. Two wounds should stay the realm of Heroes (and some flying critters and mounts) and never ever be applied on blocks of infantry (or cavalry), not if they don't want to make a 30 by 30 mm base for them atleast. Toughness 4 and higher weapons skill, heavy armors, great weapons and Chaos Marks not good enough? We don't need to step it back up to Daemons, Vampire Counts and Dark Elves again.

[Brotheroracle]

I'd like to see bestigors with 2 attacks and a ward save/magic attacks to represent them taking the best of the herdstone's cache

[sulla]

Originally Posted by Farsot

Two wounds should stay the realm of Heroes (and some flying critters and mounts) and never ever be applied on blocks of infantry (or cavalry), not if they don't want to make a 30 by 30 mm base for them atleast.

You do realise that flesh hounds and flamers have two wounds, right?

If t4, heavy armour and great weapons were good enough, they would be fielded right now... but as they have been rarely sighted since the 6th edition book came out, it's unlikely that it is good enough.

You could beef up the attacks for them, that makes them a good unit on the charge, but still poor when recieving charges. As a consequence, players will still take minotaurs instead becasue they retain more attacks after taking wounds. Making them more resilient in some fashion is the best answer to making beastherds viable choices.

[Paraelix]

Pretty sure 2 wounds would be pushing too far... same with going T5...

I think they could use some scaly skin... To go with heavy armour and make them a match for Warriors.

[Slicktober]

2 wounds would be awesome. Not too far at all.

But is this the rumour thread or the wishlisting thread?

[static grass]

Well how many points are you willing to pay for a 2W bestigor? Somewhere about 25 points me thinks.

2 wounds make bestigors look too much like an iWin button unless pointed appropriately

[McBaine]

Quote

You do realise that flesh hounds and flamers have two wounds, right?

You do realise that they are expensive and in a special or rare slot, right ? Flamers are Units of 6 max.
I wouldn't hold my breath for 2W on "regular" Beastmen like Gors Ungors or Bestigors. Minos and Gorgons will have more than 1W, and that's ok, but I dont see it coming for the regular beast troops.

[SabaLoth]

I'm really looking forward to beast, maybe my friend will dust them off and actually play with them again.

Though beastmen have the fluuuf, i'm against giving every army hero tough 5

[Killshot]

Originally Posted by Slicktober

But is this the rumour thread or the wishlisting thread?

All "rumor" thread turn to wishlisting these days, until the army book comes out.

As for the 2 W gors, I was just kidding. I know they won't go back to 2 W gors.

[The SkaerKrow]

Originally Posted by sulla

You do realise that flesh hounds and flamers have two wounds, right?

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for the merits of two wound infantry/cavalry.

[Tymell]

The whole "corrupted treeman" thing would make a nice replacement for the Shaggoth as the "great big monster" of the army, it must be said.

[Revlid]

Originally Posted by Tymell

The whole "corrupted treeman" thing would make a nice replacement for the Shaggoth as the "great big monster" of the army, it must be said.

Hmm. If I want a "corrupt Treeman" in my army then I'll "counts as" a Giant, thanks. I'd prefer the "corrupt treeman" to fulfill a different role, like a mobile shrine. Maybe it's grown up around a herdstone, its branches tangling around the unearthly rock at its core - a real "Dark Heart of the Forest".

Originally Posted by static grass

Well how many points are you willing to pay for a 2W bestigor? Somewhere about 25 points me thinks.

2 wounds make bestigors look too much like an iWin button unless pointed appropriately

No. With their current stats, 2 wounds pushes Bestigors up to Chaos Warrior costs. With T5, then they start getting painful - but they're still a ranked unit in an army populated mostly by skirmishers, fast cav and monsters.

I'd like to see Bestigors with T5, personally. I like the idea of 2W, and it represents the unnatural resilience of Beastmen very well, but I think the game has largely moved past 2W infantry outside of special cases.

[Tymell]

Originally Posted by Revlid

Hmm. If I want a "corrupt Treeman" in my army then I'll "counts as" a Giant, thanks. I'd prefer the "corrupt treeman" to fulfill a different role, like a mobile shrine. Maybe it's grown up around a herdstone, its branches tangling around the unearthly rock at its core - a real "Dark Heart of the Forest".

It could certainly do that as well, no reason not to. I just meant that with the removal of the Shaggoth Beasts could do with something else in it's place.

[Nightsword]

Quote

I'd prefer the "corrupt treeman" to fulfill a different role, like a mobile shrine.

I'd prefer the corrupt treeman to stay rooted in the minds of the developers to be honest. Something about it jars with me...

I can't see two wound bestigor happening. Maybe centigor though? I've high hopes for centigor. Hmm yes.

Guess I'll have to wait a while though... *sigh*

[Tauren]

To me I would love to see bestigors become usable. Lets be honest here... we pay 12 points (that's a dryad folks) for a single bestigor that gets what?

a 5+ armor save? strength 4? the handicap of being a ranked unit in a mostly skirmishing/fast moving army? with 1 attack? no fear, no special rules? with great weapons? Sorry that is garbage. The only thing that makes this unit even remotely usable is marking it khorne and running 12 of them. and even then its questionable... for the same cost you could get minotaurs... that move 12 on the march.

What I would love to see?

12 points:
Raiders - normal rules
2 attacks a piece
Great weapons, shield and hand weapon
1 point higher leadership than standard
WS5
Leave the armor what is is.
- They now have the movement to keep up, two attacks makes them nasty.

10 pts:
remain in a block
Great weapons, shield and handweapon
2 attacks a piece
WS5
1 point higher leadership than standard
Leave armor what it is
2 wounds a piece
- They are now a nasty elite road block with two wounds a piece that will never run out of static combat res.

I personally would prefer the first option, but that's just me. I look at dryads which for 12 points are strength 4, toughness 4, have a 5+ ward save, skirmish, cause fear, are ITP, and move 5 with 2 attacks a piece and when I look at bestigors I just cry. I guess my biggest problem is and will always be that beastmen are supposed to be combat monsters but they aren't. They don't do shooting, they don't have armor. Their entire purpose is to get into combat and fight. I would like to see more attacks and higher toughness or more wounds personally. They give up armor and leadership, both of which are huge pains, for combat effectiveness, yet right now we lose to units with higher leadership and equal toughness, that swing better (WS), swing more (attacks) and have higher strength when they do, and on top of that have armor or ward saves.

[Scactha]

More rumours, less wish thinking please.

[sulla]

Originally Posted by Farsot

I Two wounds should stay the realm of Heroes (and some flying critters and mounts) and never ever be applied on blocks of infantry (or cavalry),

Originally Posted by McBaine

You do realise that they are expensive and in a special or rare slot, right ? Flamers are Units of 6 max.

I was replying to that first quote. Please don't try to twist things out of context.

[Tauren]

In all honesty we can compare them but realize different armies have different abilities. The daemon army core that are taken are priced for what they do which is woop ass? How much do you pay for a plaguebringer? with a 4+ reg and 5+ ward? that never breaks, cause fear, etc?

Compared to a bestigor that would still be able to break, wouldn't cause fear, wouldn't have a save, and would just swing better and move faster? Plaguebringers aren't in special slots. But again they are a different army. Our core is fast, our special slots are our hard hitters. Bestigors are core, they need to be our core mid-range hitters/ranked unit that can hold worth something.

Honestly I think any army that breaks the normal rules for so many things needs to pay a premium, something that daemons do not. The fact that leadership is so crucial is a huge factor that they ignore completely by being fear causing ITP nasty troops. They have their faults but in general their specials make up or work to counter those faults, which is why anyone anywhere can just say "daemons" as a reason for any unit getting a buff. Shoot at this point we can point at dark elves and VC also.

Another question is what goodies do we get for being on a 25mm? Nothing! absolutely squat! that's right folks, the other guys get to fit more into combat than we do because they are on 20's but we get jack and **** and jack left town for being on a 25. Personally I think warriors should have gotten movement 5. But for us I want an extra point of toughness on our bestigors or an extra wound.

[InsideReticle]

Comparing any army, present or future, to daemons is futile. The whole list is broken, especially flesh hounds and flamers.