Games Workshop Pricing Feedback Thread

[Shadowsinner]

also we have to keep in mind that Gw has sort of created its own s**t list with its customers. not just by prices, but also with their massive delays in updates and imbalances for game mechanics. the fact that even though thousands complained about the cost of gold swords, and thousands complain about the DOC book, and not only is anything done about it, but rather we are ignored or given smirky remarks to by the higher up, GW has begun a campaign of alienation from the people whos wallets they depend on. instead of opening new doors for new players and by keeping the current players happy... they have shut out a lot of potential players and are driving away the current players they have. not even games days are worth going to anymore.

[Templar Ben]

The bigger issue, and to be fair one that we are not in a position to discuss at great detail, is the network effects of the games. Think of something like a telephone. If you have one of the first 100 then it is not that valuable (except as a status symbol). Once there is a large number of others with telephones (such as your office, your friends, the businesses you wish to call) then your telephone is more valuable.

It is like that with games. If you live in an area with lots of GW gamers that prefer those games then you will play those games or spend a great deal of time looking for opponents. As the number of GW opponents decreases in your area, the value of owning GW decreases. This is called the feedback loop and it can be positive or negative.

With GW it is a little different as people could quit playing but still have an army in the attic that they can pull out, meaning minimal reentry costs. This is part of the reason I am saying that we really don't have enough information to see what the true effect is as far as total numbers of players. I know I have met a lot of people that have quit but then there are a lot of people that complain but game regularly with the existing models. We really can't say what the future holds for GW.

[Crazy Harborc]

The people in my group of regular opponents are looking for buyers....buyers for their GW, WHFB armies. We have not played a game of fantasy in over a year. Oh, none of us is trying to sell all their fantasy armies....BUT....at least one army each.

[Melodium]

To field one unit of Guards of the Galadhrim Court I need to buy 3 blister packs. Cost - nearly £30.

9 28mm standard infantry figures for £30.

I rest my case your Honour

[evilsponge]

Originally Posted by Shadowsinner

also we have to keep in mind that Gw has sort of created its own s**t list with its customers. not just by prices, but also with their massive delays in updates and imbalances for game mechanics. the fact that even though thousands complained about the cost of gold swords, and thousands complain about the DOC book, and not only is anything done about it, but rather we are ignored or given smirky remarks to by the higher up, GW has begun a campaign of alienation from the people whos wallets they depend on. instead of opening new doors for new players and by keeping the current players happy... they have shut out a lot of potential players and are driving away the current players they have. not even games days are worth going to anymore.

Its what happens when you've been king of the miniatures market for two long. hopefully the sight of their stock dropping like a rock and their inability to provide dividends to their shareholders have shaken them up a bit

[evilsponge]

Originally Posted by Crazy Harborc

Games Workshop is a business. GW must do whatever it takes to make a profit for providing dividends to the stockholders. Then there are the suits who must be well compensated, etc.

Customers? Customers WILL pay what GW says they must OR do without. After all GW is not a hobby it's a business. Forget all the hype (put out by and encouraged by) of the last 5 years about GW/WHFB/40K/etc being a "hobby".

I am a customer, I don't have a "business". THAT said....my "business" is my hobby.....wargaming. I want to continue enjoying my hobby which includes buying, assembling, painting and using new minies. I owe it to my "stockholders" (my wallet) to spend as little as it takes to keep the new minies coming in.

I cannot afford to continue buying GW products. I can afford to continue my hobby of wargaming. There are several (and the number is growing) other companies that provide good minies, good rules and all the other needed accessories to continue years of happy wargaming.

Yes GW (is still, for now) the top of the heap when it comes to companies selling products for people who are into the hobby of wargaming. Funny thing is GW helps the competition to grow by being the GW of it's earned image....all of the image.

You make some good points. There always going to be a tight rope GW has to walk between making their stockholders happy and finding incentives to keep their customers coming back (in pricing, quality of models, and game rules)

[Crazy Harborc]

Another important point.......How many missed dividends and or reduced dividends before the(some of the) stockholders sell some or all shares and go elsewhere?

[Imperius]

Using an example of the apple sale a page or two back...

If you are selling apples at $2 and your competitor is selling at $2, lower your price to $1 and more people will come to your store as opposed to his.
Now you are selling 2 apples for $1 a piece, and with customers going to you as opposed to your competitor he will have to raise his prices to compensate for the profit loss.
He raises prices, even more people go to you. Keep the price the same or lower them again and you will still steadily gain more people and he will still be raising his prices because all the customers are going to you.


I think this is basics, the lower your price is compared to other providers, the more people buy your product.

Yes yes, I know that more of the product has to made blah blah. If your selling 3-4X more of the same product than you were before then you still increase revenue from last year and you pay off the price of the mould quicker. The more moulds you, the company, owns as its own the cheaper models can be produced.

I'm also sure that bulk buying gives you more discounts on the product itself, so if you are ordering 3-4X more plastic, it will be cheaper than ordering your normal amount of plastic, four times.





Edit: Go sell your product to Walmart. If you DON'T get more revenues that way then your models must REALLY be waaaaaaaaaay over priced.

[blongbling]

Originally Posted by Crazy Harborc

Another important point.......How many missed dividends and or reduced dividends before the(some of the) stockholders sell some or all shares and go elsewhere?

depends if the share holders are long term and looking at the future of the compnay or short term wanting to turn a buck. Certainly Mark Wells was quite open in telling us that all the major investors were long term partners are were happy to suffer a little bit to get the company tured around so that the long term. GW actively discourages short term investors

[simonr1978]

Originally Posted by Imperius

Edit: Go sell your product to Walmart. If you DON'T get more revenues that way then your models must REALLY be waaaaaaaaaay over priced.

Except that in the UK certainly and I cannot imagine North America being any different, big chain supermarkets have such massive buying power that on many items they are often able to pretty much dictate prices and terms to their suppliers.

It's been covered by others previously with a better understanding of economics than me (Not difficult, most family pets probably have a better understanding of economics than me) but this would not be a good way to go, margins would be way too low and prices would likely undercut any other local stockists who would naturally resent this. You might shift more product but your profit will probably be negligable and you'll undermine any local goodwill you've been able to generate.

If it doesn't sell down the toy aisle of Asda or Walmart it could equally be that this is the wrong place to try and sell niche products like this, they're simply not going to devote the shelf space to stock a sufficient range when it can go to fasting moving products, or the latest must-buy fad toy of the season.

[Starblayde]

Originally Posted by Imperius

Edit: Go sell your product to Walmart. If you DON'T get more revenues that way then your models must REALLY be waaaaaaaaaay over priced.

Originally Posted by simonr1978

If it doesn't sell down the toy aisle of Asda or Walmart it could equally be that this is the wrong place to try and sell niche products like this

GW don't actively advertise in the general market because of their very nature of being a niche market. Those who have any idea about wargaming, roleplaying, or whatever, will already know about GW because they have such a monopoly on the various aspects of the hobby.

Trying to put Space Marines in a supermarket will not help anybody, tbh.

[jamesterjlrb]

Just a thought. If you've spent £50 on a hobby you're going to be more likely to "grow out of it" and stop than if you spent £2000. Obviously these figures are exaggerated but the point remains.

[Crazy Harborc]

Games Workshop has a corner on the GW range of products for GW systems. The hobby of wargaming has at least 3 times more wargamers, world wide, than GW has claimed to have as regular customers/games players.

IMHO, "wargaming" is a "niche hobby". In the past, as now, there have been "top dogs" making the best rules, minies and whatever needed accessories. For about 10 years GW has been and is recognized as the current leader/top dog company.

GW has created it's version of fantasy wargaming rules and whatever else is needed. If anything, GW invented fantasy wargaming a nitche within the hobby of wargaming.

Because of the "target market" of GW users/potential players (children 10 to 16 yrs old), GW has to assume that in a short number of years the current starting players will have grown up, finished getting an education and moved out of mom and dad's into the real world.

A portion of ex-GW gamers do come back to GW. They discover the new inflated prices at GW land. Some/many of them move on into the rest of the hobby of wargaming. The rest just drift away for GW and away from the rest of the hobby of wargaming.

Prices keep rising because of inflation. Apparently inflation at GW is much higher than the rest of the world their market is in.

No....prices have not killed off GW. GW is still top dog.....ALL things end with time.

[hydra66]

On another note, is there a reason GW have wiped uot their discounts for buying in bulk?

Taking 40k as an example, the battleforces used to have a decent discount compared to the individal sets of models (provided you could find a use for all the models in the set in question). Over the last yr, GW not only have increased the costs of the sets but are rejigging the sets so you get even less in the set (eg removing the tank from the ig set, probably the carnifex from the tyranid set).

Strikeforces phased out. They've brought out some new ones for christmas but let's take the ork one as an example - costs same as 2x battleforces but cashwise if you bought the individual units, the 2 battleforces are worth more. No incentive for buying a load at a time, and definitely not worth buying the latest battleforces.

That said they can afford next day delivery on relatively small orders from their direct site - must be costing them at least 20% of the order in some cases. Lowering the prices would help in creating a larger customer base and word of mouth. Granted less profit per mini but more minis sold.

Anyway, I'd also prefer it if GW priced according to amount of lead/plastic involved a la PP rather than the points value of the mini.

[Raphaus]

Just a thought.

There are three reasons I stick with GW stuff (for now) and none of them are to do with cost. Please note I am not wealthy and have to think quite seriously before I spend out on new models.

1...Nostalgia. 40k RT was the first wargame I ever played, I've followed the development of the system and background for more than 20 years and the familiarity of things like the Imperium or Night Goblin Fanatics (for you Warhammer fans) makes it easy to slip in to wargaming mode.

2...Investment. Not just the fact that I already have a lot of GW stuff (although thats a part of it) but the fact that I'm invested in the system itself. It's loads easier to play a system that you are familiar with than having to learn a whole new game.

3...Ease of Access. Simply put it is far easier to find opponents playing systems like 40k or Warhammer due to the retail chain and dominant place GW have in the market.

GW could easily price me out of the market (although they haven't managed it yet) but what would really do for them would be a competitor who produces a game that feeds my nostalgia, proves not too great an intellectual investment, is easy to access and is cheaper.

This may well happen, GW's competitors are snapping at their heels and I'm taking note of it. If GW wants to retain it's dominant position it must continue to earn it. This is much more complex than simple cost per model, it is value for money that I'm looking for. At the moment GW represents best value for money (for me) because it does best at those three points. Other gamers (customers) must decide for themselves if GW represents best value for money for them. The institutional arrogance and communications incompetence of GW management will make this a difficult struggle for them.

In short, I don't mind them charging me a lot for models as long as I feel the totallity of the GW experience is worth it and I'm not being ripped off. I'm beginning to worry that I may be.

[Crazy Harborc]

Been a wargamer for over 40 years. Several years before GW became a real company. My regular opponents and I have been gaming before GW and now mostly without GW (rules). We all played WHFB/fantasy. One guy played and still does....play 40K.

One guy learned wargaming because of WHFB. Getting him into historical wargaming was easy. WAB then FoG and now 1644 ECW rules.

None of us has bought GW goodies in 6 months. There's soooo much available for less money. There are soooo many other good sets of rules out there too. Maybe next year we will have a few WHFB games....that is maybe.

[Andyrew]

I have only been gaming for a couple of years now. I got my kids into it so that I could play :-). The prices aren't that bad and I don't think you will ever see any discounts or sale prices as there is a dedicated market out there that is constantly increasing and with the current changes to the Codex's, more people are collecting more and more armies.

[Crazy Harborc]

In the recent past GW has let it be known that GW catches them young (10 to 16) and keeps them as buying customers for 4 to 6 years.....Then the majority of the players grow up/put away their toys in a chest somewhere.

[doombanner]

Originally Posted by Ravenous

Yeah but at least with classic cars the value goes up as it gets older, where as GW stuff becomes instantly worthless upon a new release.

Im looking forward to selling my 68 chevelle for 8 times the original cost.

In all honesty though, stock market problems aside, traditionally the stock market returns 15% every decade or so. That money spent on the car would been better off going into the stock market. Counterpoint; you can't reasonably get by without a car, so whatever. Spend money on what makes you happy, just realize you could be spending/investing money on other things.

Originally Posted by Nuada

Maybe i'm wrong here, but I thought OOP figures went for alot of money on ebay?
I've heard my friend complain about the price of chaos dwarfs

This is another issue with GW; they don't realize what their stuff is worth. The old Harlequins were selling for ten bucks on ebay, and GW still wouldn't re-release them, even though the demand was clearly there.

Originally Posted by Nuada

They do. But usually only for staff. They have auctions selling off old figures.

I remember them selling old warmaster armies, it was £1 for every 1,000 points.

Maybe there's some legal reason they can't sell it off that cheap to the general public.

Restrictions on dumping, probably, and the fact that it would piss off every retailer hat bought into Warmaster. One of the things that did SG in, was the pereption that, "Oh this is just a six-month game..."

~Doom Banner

[doombanner]

Originally Posted by EmperorNorton

If the vets spend less money than the newbies (and judging from my personal experience I'm not convinced this is true), then it's at least partially GW's fault for not producing something they want to spend money on.
A veteran gamer has proven that he is willing to invest in his hobby, so GW should offer ways for him to keep doing so.
Apocalypse and War of the Rings are pretty much geared towards people who already have sizeable collections, so GW seems to have realized that.

Pretty much this, as well. Mopst companies would kill to have a loyal fanbase, that keeps coming back to purchase more, time and time again.

GW acts arrogant about it.

The demise of the "kiddie" players taught GW a very valuable lesson, that they should have learned from day one; all money is valuable, no matter where it comes from.

~Doom Banner