Tyranid Rumour Summary

[Zanzibarthefirst]

one of the datasheets for screamer-killers has bio-acid turned into a massive hellstorm template so maybe that may be an indication.

As for sayibng S7 is not the good anti-tank promised, fexs can generally rip any vehicle it hits, the problem is of course hitting the thing. remember that fexs are 2d6 when rolling to penetrate so rather than an average rol of 15 you now get an average of 14 which can still rip apart the vast majoirty of vehicles. Nids may still ahve a problem with the monlith but hey, necrons need something dont they. Toxic sacs will still be a problem to help deal with land raider so the anti-tank complaint isnt such a vlaid one as even with a reudced S, it is barely less effective destroying tanks.

[jamesterjlrb]

Has anyone noticed that they no longer have the box of hormogaunts and gaunts either on the site from what i can see or at independent retailers. Any clues why or am i being an idiot and missed them?

[Threeshades]

Originally Posted by jamesterjlrb

Has anyone noticed that they no longer have the box of hormogaunts and gaunts either on the site from what i can see or at independent retailers. Any clues why or am i being an idiot and missed them?

it's been mentioned a few times by now. Well the wildest theories about why they have been removed are that there will be new ones next year. But I think that sounds absolutely absurd and preposterous

[BigBadBull]

Originally Posted by jamesterjlrb

Has anyone noticed that they no longer have the box of hormogaunts and gaunts either on the site from what i can see or at independent retailers. Any clues why or am i being an idiot and missed them?

Welcome to 3-4 weeks ago, maybe even longer. It was reported a very long time ago in this very thread.

Normal GW policy now is to pull kits being re-boxed and battle boxes 2-3 months before the new release. SW, IG, etc. have been following this along with the army disappearing from the display cases at Warhammer world, even before that.

Hince the rumors started up for the Blood Angels a while back right after the nids was confirmed.

[Angelwing]

Originally Posted by Zanzibarthefirst

i remember when nids stil had stranglewebs and spike rifles, they were limted to 8 in a brood and IIRC they could infiltrate. Whilst quite expensive in terms of points, the spike rifles were easy to make by putting flesh hooks on the end of fleshborers and i cannot remember about stranglewebs, in invovled devourers and something else.

Those still are the current rules for those weapons. The strangleweb conversion required a venom cannon barrel end.

Regarding the new stuff, what I really want to know is unit sizes for the new species, so I know what to preorder!

Anyhow, kudos to the rumour providers and the Dude for collecting it all up.

[Kelderaith]

Quote

As for sayibng S7 is not the good anti-tank promised, fexs can generally rip any vehicle it hits, the problem is of course hitting the thing. remember that fexs are 2d6 when rolling to penetrate so rather than an average rol of 15 you now get an average of 14 which can still rip apart the vast majoirty of vehicles. Nids may still ahve a problem with the monlith but hey, necrons need something dont they. Toxic sacs will still be a problem to help deal with land raider so the anti-tank complaint isnt such a vlaid one as even with a reudced S, it is barely less effective destroying tanks.

Against competent opponents, it's already tough enough as it is because you will have to hit a moving vehicule, which means you actually pray for hitting once, so yeah, reducing STR by 2-3 points while it's actually that hard to hit in the first place will reduce the carnifex capacity in dealing with vehicule quite drastically. A bioconstruct of that size should not have trouble dealing with vehicule in HtH in the first place, so I can hardly think of why would they nerf that specific aspect of the fex (as the str caracteristic serves no real purpose beyong 8 vs pretty much anything but vehicules).

P.S. Yeah I am aware of talos, wraithlord and c'tans, but seriously, they are but pinpricks compared to the number of vehicules we have to face constantly.

[jamesterjlrb]

Originally Posted by BigBadBull

Welcome to 3-4 weeks ago, maybe even longer. It was reported a very long time ago in this very thread.

My apologies, this thread is so long now i can't possibly read everything before posting.

It does kind of throw a spanner in the whole Ravenors, Gargoyles and Trygon thing if Gaunts are getting anew plastic box if there are only three. Unfortunately the Trygon seems the least unlikely of the other three but then one does wonder which is to be the £40 box set unless i read wrong and the most expensive is $40?

[MajorWesJanson]

Originally Posted by Kelderaith

Against competent opponents, it's already tough enough as it is because you will have to hit a moving vehicule, which means you actually pray for hitting once, so yeah, reducing STR by 2-3 points while it's actually that hard to hit in the first place will reduce the carnifex capacity in dealing with vehicule quite drastically. A bioconstruct of that size should not have trouble dealing with vehicule in HtH in the first place, so I can hardly think of why would they nerf that specific aspect of the fex (as the str caracteristic serves no real purpose beyong 8 vs pretty much anything but vehicules).

P.S. Yeah I am aware of talos, wraithlord and c'tans, but seriously, they are but pinpricks compared to the number of vehicules we have to face constantly.

Fexes may be getting toned down some because they gain the ability to take more of them in a FOC slot. That and other units are going to help take up Anti-tank slack.

[Scryer in the Darkness]

Originally Posted by jamesterjlrb

My apologies, this thread is so long now i can't possibly read everything before posting.

That's why there's a Summary in the first post, ya dig?

Originally Posted by jamesterjlrb

It does kind of throw a spanner in the whole Ravenors, Gargoyles and Trygon thing if Gaunts are getting anew plastic box if there are only three.

Nope. The quote is three new plastic kits. Gaunts are just repacks.

Originally Posted by jamesterjlrb

Unfortunately the Trygon seems the least unlikely of the other three but then one does wonder which is to be the £40 box set unless i read wrong and the most expensive is $40?

You read very wrong. There is no £40 or $40 box set. It's £30 / US$49.50.

[aka_mythos]

The toned down Fex makes sense. When GW squadroned tanks, it made them more fragile, for effectively the same cost. But 1-3 or even making a unit of monstrous creatures improves their survivability. Without a tone down it becomes broken pretty quickly.

The other reason I think a "tone down" is in order is simply that Trygons need some way of being superior to Fexes. With in the confines of standard sized 40k, the relativistic scale for strength is 1-10... because a trygon is stronger than a fex, if a trygon is a 10 fexes must be something less.

[Scryer in the Darkness]

Just something I've been meaning to mention and was reminded of while going over some old correspondence and pricelists... there is a systems-wide release of "various character models" for Direct Only coming last week of November which as I understand it contains some old stuff, but it could also perhaps account for our unassigned 'odd' metal blister. It's always felt like an early release separate to all the other Tyranids codes (and did in fact turn up far earlier than those) and is grouped with older entries like the Imperial Guard "character model" codes anyway. Just a thought.

[Dead Man Walking]

It doesnt matter if you can take more carnifex's if they dont cost less. If your thing is to field lots of carni's you can in the current edition and even if you took 3 elites and 3 heavies you still only have points left over for a few troops and 2 tyrants.

So even if you can get 9 heavies and 3 elites are you really fielding more if you cant get 12 in a 1850-2000 pnt list? Unless they can count as troops I would have to say no. The only thing you are doing is reducing thier effectiveness (as they can only be in one spot on the table instead of spread out) and making sure no one can take that kill point.

[Stickmonkey]

Originally Posted by Threeshades

it's been mentioned a few times by now. Well the wildest theories about why they have been removed are that there will be new ones next year. But I think that sounds absolutely absurd and preposterous

I bought a new nid battle force a few months back and about a week or so ago finally cracked it open to find one of the hormagaunts legs was completely absent from the sprue and not rattling around the box.

It wasnt a big deal, but I called Customer Service to see if they'd do anything and was told they have no gaunts at all, and that I need to call back in Jan.

This was just a week or two back. so new boxes or not, no gaunts right now.

[MajorWesJanson]

Squadroning doesn't just allow you to take more Fexes, it allows you to free up FOC slots. If you took 6 Fexes before, you would use up all 3 Elite and all 3 HS slots. With a squadron, you could take say a pair of Fexes in one Elite slot, a pair in a HS slot, and spend the rest of the points on 4 other units to fill the 4 slots you have just freed up.

[Bolter Bait]

Originally Posted by MajorWesJanson

Squadroning doesn't just allow you to take more Fexes, it allows you to free up FOC slots. If you took 6 Fexes before, you would use up all 3 Elite and all 3 HS slots. With a squadron, you could take say a pair of Fexes in one Elite slot, a pair in a HS slot, and spend the rest of the points on 4 other units to fill the 4 slots you have just freed up.

This is key. Currently, when I build a list, sometimes I say to myself "Hmm, maybe today I'll try Biovores for laughs" or "This list needs more Zoanthrope." Then I can chip a few points off a Heavy fex and shoehorn it into an Elite slot, making room for something that isn't a Carnifex. That's why I'm such a staunch supporter of the Shock Troops rule - not so I can field 6 Carnifexes, but so I have flexibility when making a list.

The idea of being able to take "squadrons" of Carnifex doesn't make me immediately think "Must have 9 Carnifex!" Instead, I'd rather take advantage of being able to make a list that would have a Trygon, a brood of Carnifex and a brood of Zoanthropes for my Heavy choices, allowing me greater diversity. There would be some people who may go the route of "Om nom nom, more fexes!" but they're going to pay out the nose and have little Troops and few options.

[aka_mythos]

Its just ends up re-emphasizing heavies and elites after GW went to great lengths to empahsize troops. If you emphasize everything, you end up with an even more limited number of viable builds because of limitation in points means taking units to the exclusion of others, but to a more strenuous degree. It forces one to be more fixated on small point cost trade offs and shifts much gamemanship to pre-game list construction over tactics and strategies.

[brassangel]

But you aren't freeing up points to buy a Trygon and more Zoanthropes; you are just freeing up force organization slots that you don't have points to spend for because you bought the same amount of Carnifex models.

It doesn't "free" up anything in terms of army list construction. It only virtually frees things up because it condenses the FO chart.

If the Carnifex gets nerfed in the Strength department (which they won't), they may end up worthless entirely. As it stands, they auto-kill most IC's and pen vehicles in their sleep. Barbed Stranglers would suddenly become S6 on them, which is lousy, and Venom Cannons become S8 (also lousy). All this for the same point cost? Unless everything in the book gets a complete overhaul to compensate, they would essentially be taking the most versatile unit in the Tyranid army and making it suck.

EDIT: To the limitations on the number of Stranglewebs/Spike Rifles: They won't do that for gaunts, as it's not only too tedious to be a conversion-only piece of equipment, but keeping track of which one is which in a charging mass of aliens is ridiculous to ask of an opponent. Bio-weapons will be all-or-none for gaunts.

[Brendi]

I can´t believe they will reduce the strength of the fex.
It´s pretty much the only thing it got going for it. It has few attacks, common MC T, low ws, low init and an ok save. The strength is it´s hallmark.

As for the Trygon/Carnifex comparison I think the Carnifex is stronger and is supposed to be.
It´s the same comparison as the SM Predator vs Vindicator.
I read a good analogy somewhere ( I forget ): "If the Predator is the sleek, agile predator of the space marines then the Vindicator is the tough, strong attack dog.
Which sums up the Trygon vs Carnifex in my mind. The Trygon is fast and deadly, but the Carnifex is stronger and can take more punishment.

Not a 100% sure, but doesn´t the Trygon have S7 in apocalypse?

[Murphey]

Originally Posted by Brendi

I can´t believe they will reduce the strength of the fex.

I agree on this. I mean, a damn wraithlord has higher base str, and costs less.

Granted, str 9/10 is fairly redundant in most cases. But assuming they make fexs able to actually hit a vehicle, reducing their Str would be very counter to that move.

~Murphey

[Vineas]

Maybe they drop to S7 base with option to go to S8. At worst you glance 99% of vehicles in game. Unless it's for KP's who cares about a LR running around dropping off cargo. I'm willing to bet 'Nids will be back to the cc monsters they are so whoopty doo if a LR drops off 5 or even 8 termies. Not as if terminators are really a super huge threat to 'Nids, even currently.