Tactica: Warriors of Chaos

[Asymmetric]

Originally Posted by Slicktober

My Skaven army built specifically to cast Curse of the Horned One would love to play this man.

I don't really understand that reasoning. It's still only a 400-500 point unit the chosen it's hardly all your eggs in one basket, nor will they protecting any high cost caster lords like some infantry blocks. If you manage to pull off a proper curse of the horned rat off through the magical defences and likely magic resistance you still have to deal with Valkia, 2 warshrines and the 1000 other points of the chaos list. Hell, if even a handful of chosen survive the spell your still going to likely have surviors with stubborn, WS6, T4, 2+armour , 3++ inv unit. That's still enough to shrug off almost anything a skaven unit can do in close combat.

[Khemed]

Hey there again dudes, I've been working on my 1500 WoC list lately, that's what I've managed to come up with but I think it's not quite complete yet and could use a lot of tweaking, so any input (as always) really appreciated:


Characters:

Exalted Hero BSB
MoK, Shield, [Axe of Khorne+Favour of the Gods or Chaos Runesword], Juggernaut
255pts.
[Assists the Khornate Knight Unit w/o the War Banner]

Chaos Sorcerer
MoN, Lvl 2,
140pts.
[Sits in the Marauder infantry block, snipes characters]

Chaos Sorcerer
MoT, Lvl 2, Power Familiar, Disc of Tzeentch
185pts.
[Hopefuly keeps up Pandemonium and then there's always Flickering Fire. Good for dealing with those nasty war machines.]


Core:

Chaos Marauders x 14
MoS, FC, Flails, Shield, LA
135pts.
[Just to protect sorcerer and guard knight's rear]

Marauder Horsemen x 5
MoS, Musician, Flails, LA
96pts.
[Marchblock, flanking]

Marauder Horsemen x 5
MoS, Musician, Flails, LA
96pts.
[Marchblock, flanking]

Warhounds x 5
30pts.
[Screening, redirecting]

Warhounds x 5
30pts.
[Screening, redirecting]


Special:

Chaos Knights x5
MoK, Musician, Standard Bearer, War Banner
285pts.
[erm...blood for the blood god I suppose]

Chaos Knights x5
MoK, Musician, Standard Bearer
260pts.
[same as above + holds the BSB char.]

That's 1497pts. in total (my mates tolarate up to a 1% of variation, if critically needed)



This should give me a pretty sweet magic phase and almost a certain enemy unit breaks on knight charges while being able to handle the challenges well.

I really think I can squeeze more out of this list but don't quite know how (one for sure - I do want to keep at least one unit of infantry in the army, full cav. army just doesn't feel right)

Corrections: cheers Epimetheus, little-kharn, Avian, Paraelix.

[-Epimetheus-]

Originally Posted by Elazar The Glorified

Not sure how cost effective it'd prove to be but part of me wants to test it out with hysterical frenzy cast on the hounds for good measure!

That was one thing I thought of, but I won't be doing that in my army.

Originally Posted by selone

Don't do it.

Care to explain why? Warhounds are pretty much just point fillers - at least they have some potential in combat this way..... And most armies can find something with a high toughness, yet a far from perfect armour save.....

[-Epimetheus-]

@ Khemed - Book of Secrets says it cannot be taken by a model with the Mark of Khorne.....

As for the rest - I'm not experienced enough to say.

EDIT - just noticed your edits.

If you take MoK away, you can't ride the Juggernaut anymore..... You need MoK to ride it.

[little-kharn]

the exalted hero also has 75 points of magical items when hes only allowed 50 and he can't take the book of secrets because he has the MoK put the book on the MoT sorcerer
i would also consider dropping the runesword on the BSB for the axe of khorne and favour of the gods thats an awesome combo

[Walls]

Maybe, since I am back into enjoying Fantasy again, I can ask some questions!

Flanks: What units are good for protecting your flanks? Obviously large targets like giants and Shaggoths who can move fast would work. Empire often use knights, I would imagine this is much the same for WoC? How about spawn or units of Forsaken? I have all the above, but no DrOgres yet.

Palanquin: Any thoughts on the use of a palanquin for a sorcerer? I take it they are on monster bases if I go make my own?

Forsaken: Anyone find a good use for them? I am thinking they could act much like small units of Flail marauders, acting as detachments to bigger units

Warriors: How many? How many across? I generally go with 3 units, 15 each and 5 across. Mostly due to how they were modelled, one unit has Halberds and shield, another hw/shield and the last has 2 HW. I understand that Halberds seem be generally the best weapon option.

These are some for now Thanks in advance for answering!

[danny-d-b]

Originally Posted by Walls

Maybe, since I am back into enjoying Fantasy again, I can ask some questions!

Flanks: What units are good for protecting your flanks? Obviously large targets like giants and Shaggoths who can move fast would work. Empire often use knights, I would imagine this is much the same for WoC? How about spawn or units of Forsaken? I have all the above, but no DrOgres yet.
Knights arn't the best idea as they are a bit too expensive to be sitting around protecting flanks, something like a small unit of marauders (horsemen) would be better, but then your chaos your supposed to be agrressive and hit the enermy flanks rather than 'worrying' about your own

Palanquin: Any thoughts on the use of a palanquin for a sorcerer? I take it they are on monster bases if I go make my own?
Its a good idea if you put him in a unit of chaos warriors as your 'saveing points e.g. paladin-4xchaos warriors with HW,S,H= -18 points if not then don't bother go with the steed instead

Forsaken: Anyone find a good use for them? I am thinking they could act much like small units of Flail marauders, acting as detachments to bigger units
There is no reason for forsaken, everything that can do, other things in the army can do better (ogers, knights, marruders (horsmen))

Warriors: How many? How many across? I generally go with 3 units, 15 each and 5 across. Mostly due to how they were modelled, one unit has Halberds and shield, another hw/shield and the last has 2 HW. I understand that Halberds seem be generally the best weapon option.
Most people I've seen run them 6 wide to the get max abount of attacks, your paying to much for SCR realy so you need them to be doing dammage not generating SCR

These are some for now Thanks in advance for answering!

all answers in quote in red

[Walls]

I've found 6x2 or 3 to be pretty effective, especially working in concert with another unit.

The Palanquin... well... it's 50 pts, but fear and poison causing. Hard to decide if it's worth it.

How about the Warshrine? I have some ideas modelling wise that I wanna do, so might as well field it!

[Ξ H2O Ξ]

Palanquin is a really nice mount for a wizard, it does limit its manoeuvrability cause its only the same move as the wizard, it he is gonna stay in his bunker unit its great. A 14 unit of marauders with MoS with the wizard (on a 50x50 base) makes the unit nicely form up 6x3. The palaquin on its own can tear low T units to pieces A6 with poison are really nice for off putting a charge from a technically superior unit. Also fear is a nice bonus if a unit manages to fail their test and recieve a charge instead.

Forsaken are alright for a fun game and they do a good job of messing up enemy light cav/smaller units. So field them if u want a reaonably fun unit, with masses of conversion chances.

As danny has said units of 12 6x2 are really good units.

Again Warshrines are pretty good fun units they can boost a flank as they are hard as rocks to kill, they will die to high SCR units but they are very rarely fond on flanks. A couple of people do the megadeath chosen death-star but if u keep shrines as fun units they can work wonders.

[selone]

Originally Posted by -Epimetheus-

That was one thing I thought of, but I won't be doing that in my army.



Care to explain why? Warhounds are pretty much just point fillers - at least they have some potential in combat this way..... And most armies can find something with a high toughness, yet a far from perfect armour save.....

Warhounds are not in your army to try to attack high toughness low armour troops. They are there to screen more valuable troops and possibly threaten flanks/take table quarters/munch war machine crew. They have 1A at WS 4, s3 and t3 with no save. Adding 50 % to their cost to make that one attack poisonous so that they can risk a terror test charging a big gribbly that your opponent allows to be charged by warhounds is not worth it, IMHO.

You're looking at 15 points for a unit of 5 to have poisoned attacks. A unit of toughness 3 troops with no armour and human like strength and toughness and one attack.

[Witchblade]

Warhound upgrades may just be the worst use of points in the entire WoC book. Free VP.

[The_Dark_Raven]

Been throwing this list around, thought putting it in here might get some more feedback.

Heroes

Wulfrick the wonderer 185

Exalted Champion 110
Mark of Khorne 15
Shield 5
Juggernaught 50
Battle Standard 25
Armour of Morslieb 35

Chaos Sorcerer 85
Level 2 35
Mark of Nurgle 20
Power Familiar 25
Dispel Scroll 25

Chaos Sorcerer 85
Warrior Familiar 20
Fire Lore

Core

12 Warriors of Chaos 180
Champion 12
Standard 12
Music 6
Shields 15
Mark of Khorne 30

12 Warriors of Chaos 180
Champion 12
Standard 12
Music 6
Extra weapon 15
Mark of Nurgle 30
Festering Shroud 25

20 Chaos Marauders 80
Mark of Nurgle 30
Chief 8
Standard 8
Music 4
shields 20
light armour 20



Rare

Chaos Giant 225
Mark of Nurgle 40

Special

5 Knights of Chaos 200
Champion 20
Standard 20
Music 10
Mark of Khorne 30
War Banner 25




Army Total 1995

[Cypher, the Emperor]

I would ditch something (maybe the armor of morrslieb, but IDK) to get the MoS on the giant. Nurgle is that great on him (honestly it vanilla or Slaanesh for me) and ASF transforms him from 2000pts< annoying terror causing guy to "holy crap kill this thing dead or we lose".

Would also consider dropping MoK on the knights to get halberds on the Khorne warriors, and also because MoK on knights is pretty average at best.

I would ditch the armor because its average(you already have a 1+, you could get a 0+ with an enchanted shield, if you want him to be tough then buy a crown which will save your butt much better since regen can save magic stuff too, you really just need the ward vs things like KB and poison which you could avoid entirely with a cheaper armor).

I would also go for a stone on the fire wizard, seeing as he will be bunkered inside of a unit with frenzy, he'll need to reliably get off FSoR or other combat spells, but mainly FSoR, which is worth FAR more than a single high STR hit from the familiar.

[ROCKY]

to be honest i would trade your 225point giant, for 5 knights with the mark of khorne : 230pts. better at fighting will not get owned by rapod firing low strength missile weapons. and lastly they cause fear and deal about 15S5 attacks, and 10S4 attacks.... no competition.

[Skogla]

so while thinking of different lores for a sorc lord I decided that I wanted to try something new and gave book of secrets to an exalted hero and gave him a GW (flail would work aswell) and with the book I took lore of shadows and the first spell (flying w/e its name is) hopefully this tactic is good or great; ex against empire with a steam tonk, just charge it and wound it, 4 attacks that autohit with str 7, wound on 3+ and the tonk has 1+ save minus the str modifier which lands at 5+ save. I have yet to field test this. Any thoughts?

[TheGuardian170]

Originally Posted by Ξ H2O Ξ

Again Warshrines are pretty good fun units they can boost a flank as they are hard as rocks to kill, they will die to high SCR units but they are very rarely fond on flanks. A couple of people do the megadeath chosen death-star but if u keep shrines as fun units they can work wonders.

Warshrines with MoT are not a "fun" unit they are beastly. 4+/3+ its amazing plus they go ahead and make your Chosen better or just make a unit of Warriors amazing. If you have Knights, Which you should, they make knights Chosen Knights. I have been tossing it around and next to a Giant with MoS Warshrines are by far the best Rare Choice they can hold their own in combat, as long as you watch for SCR, and boost your other troops or its self. There is not down side to a Shrine 150pts gets you one with MoT give me a better use for 150pts lol.

Cheers,

Guardian

[-Epimetheus-]

Originally Posted by Skogla

so while thinking of different lores for a sorc lord I decided that I wanted to try something new and gave book of secrets to an exalted hero and gave him a GW (flail would work aswell) and with the book I took lore of shadows and the first spell (flying w/e its name is) hopefully this tactic is good or great; ex against empire with a steam tonk, just charge it and wound it, 4 attacks that autohit with str 7, wound on 3+ and the tonk has 1+ save minus the str modifier which lands at 5+ save. I have yet to field test this. Any thoughts?

I've been thinking about the same thing - and to ensure he's getting his spell off, I'm thinking about tooling up my magic phase. 2 lv 2's to accompany him in a 1k game.....

Other idea - at 2k - use a Sorcerer Lord with the Lore of Shadows - and cast the spell on an Exalted with the Helm of Many Eyes and Great Weapon - always strikes first as well as that extra movement.

It's a 143 pt unit - it needs to do that much damage, or more, or else it was worthless. That damage does not have to be 143+ pts of enemy models killed - the disruption it could cause could be well worth the 143 pts.

[Cypher, the Emperor]

Originally Posted by ROCKY

to be honest i would trade your 225point giant, for 5 knights with the mark of khorne : 230pts. better at fighting will not get owned by rapod firing low strength missile weapons. and lastly they cause fear and deal about 15S5 attacks, and 10S4 attacks.... no competition.

This. I made my assumptions based on your posted list being what you had, but if you own another unti of Knights I'd throw them in instead.

Even Chogres would probably do better.

I think the combat potential for GW armed MoK chogres with armor is highly underutilized. They can and will just murderize people in HtH, have a good charge rage, and a LOT of attacks.

Knights are still better just because the horses though. Still dont like Frenzy on Knights, although its not that bad at under 2k, because you wont get baited as much. Also some people might call cheese for pulling two units of knights at 2k, but that depends on your gaming group, honestly.

[Skyth]

Play with Slaanesh magic and get the Frenzy on Demand for your knights.

[Cypher, the Emperor]

or the banner, the frenzy banner is good fun.