2 Rules Queries.

[Bac5665]

Originally Posted by T10

The description of the rune is pretty concise.

"The war machine can shoot every turn, as long as there is at least one crewman left, even if the machine has rolled a Misfire in the previous turn."

The reference to the Misfire is either an example or a condition.

• If it's an example then the rune overrides all "may not shoot" conditions.
• If it's a condition then the rune only comes into play when the warmachine is required to miss a turn due to Misfire.

It sounds like an example to me.

Personally I rate the rune's description vague enough to warrant a house rule, and my house rule is that it only applies when the warmachine would need to miss a turn due to loss of crew or Misfires.

But I don't try to fool myself into believing that the rule is perfectly clear.

-T10

This ranks up there in the best, most accurate posts EVER in the rules forum. So many of these disputes fall under this category, where it's obviously not clear and people really need to accept that there are other valid interpretations.

[Ramius4]

Originally Posted by T10

That's great, but the Rune of Reloading actually states that you can do something, but people want to tag on exception onto this. So running off to Jervis isn't really solving anything.

-T10

Your statement is RAW taken to its most assinine extreme. Use your head.

[lizardmaster]

lol, the rules are specific if you don't try to interpret them to you advantage. As for re-rolling your opponents dice, I'm unaware of any rule or item that lets you roll anything on your opponents behalf. The models & dice are (usually) both your opponents property and the players and rules have to respect that. Some items force the opponent to re-roll, but it's specifically stated in the item description. Simply put every item tells you specifically who can do what with it. If the rule says the character with the item can do something, then he and only he can do it.

[WLBjork]

Ramius, you need to calm down.

We can only debate RAW on here - we can add opinions on what RAI is, but that is all we can do (and we used to use guidance from the FAQs to determine RAI - can't as much now though ever since the DE Assassin debacle).

I myself consider that the final portion of the sentence is intended to be a condition, but GW worded it as an example and so an example it is.

[Atrahasis]

Originally Posted by Askil the Undecided

I'll think you'll find I was defining the term "example" I chose one that was a bit off the wall to provide emphasis.

For a start not all war machines cannot move and shoot generally. The "bloke" if you will.

Your analogy is flawed because your statement is false:

"Mammals produce milk to feed their young" is not true if read as "all mammals...", it is only true if read as "female mammals...".

This is in no way analogous to war machines, which as T10 correctly points out, can all fire unless something prevents them (such as not having been pregnant in the recent past).
A War Machine that has moved cannot fire. However, the rune of reloading allows the machine to fire every turn, even if it misfired last turn. Setting aside the fact that not all misfires prevent firing in the next turn, the example of a misfire is just that, an example, and does not modify the first sentence.

[T10]

Perhaps he should have used for his analogy a part of the human anatomy that more closely resembles a cannon?

-T10

[Nurgling Chieftain]

Originally Posted by Atrahasis

...war machines ... can all fire unless something prevents them (such as not having been pregnant in the recent past).

Sig'd!

[Askil the Undecided]

The wording being vague was part of the point.

Suffice to say an example citing a specific instance exaplains only that specific instance not every possible one, applying that example to other instances is a potentially fallible inferrence. Are we on the same page now ?

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by T10

The Rune of Reloading: In my opinion, you choose to either move or shoot with the warmachine. Misfires and loss of crew will reduce your rate of fire, which appears to be what the Rune is intended to improve. I really can't come up with a better counter-argument.

T10's view is specifically supported in the Dwarf 2008 FAQ (pg 1 right-hand column).

Link: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...02_Edition.pdf

[T10]

Awesome.

-T10