Streamined 5th Edition Necron Codex

[Terranarc]

What's the goal of this codex? It's not meant to be a new codex. It's just the old one moved a 5th edition atmosphere (with a few changes I admit). There are no new units. This codex was made so that people who really dislike the current codex can just pick this one up with the units that they have and begin playing.

I know there's little to no credibility behind me but just give it a glance.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22176254/Necron-Codex-v0-019

This is the FAQ for a few issues here and there that has come up (often) in discussions.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22179685/N...FAQ-for-v0-019

(You'll have to excuse the poor grammar and phrasing. Going to to work on that.)

All criticism is appreciated and highly desired. If you feel that something is broken, please state what it is and why.
However, I do request that you at least glance at it before accusations of imbalanced-ness..

Playtesting is more so greatly appreciated. I have playtested this myself quite a few times and have made changes accordingly based on broken things that I've noticed.

Ideas are also appreciated.

EDIT:
Why am I trying to make this codex?
The current necron codex sucks imo. Only one person that I've met in my life (and it was over vassal too), heavily defended the competitiveness of the current codex. The problem with alot of the fan codexes that I've seen (no offense to them) is that while they are creative, they often become the creator's vision of whats necron and become a bit unbalanced.
Why is this one any different?
This one is made with conservatism in mind. It's made so that the content is very familiar but streamlined and competitive in 5th without being overly radical.

[Catty Nebulart]

Hmm, your point values seem way off, why is the necron lord worth 150 points when most people agree he is overcosted at 100 points? Why are imortals more expensive than pariahs? why the massive increase in cost for flayed ones which are a terrible unit?

Also you don't seem to fix the problem that necrons have of losing close combat and then being destroyed. Most of the HQ wargear still does nothing usefull or is way to expensive (Lightning field, and chronometron particularly).

Secondly the warrirors are still a waste of points, to do anything usefull they must be within assault range and if they are in assault range they are dead.

[Terranarc]

"Also you don't seem to fix the problem that necrons have of losing close combat and then being destroyed. "

You notice that there isn't any phaseout? Thats why points were increased.

FnP lowers the negative Ld modifier by half. I'll have to playtest more to see if it really needs more close combat boost. You're probably thinking of something like a squad of ass termies running into 10 warriors.

I haven't tested lightning field and chonometron (probably because they're useless) but I will say that the goal of this codex is to not be radical in any way. Ex: T5 4+ save necron warriors.

Also, I've yet to see an issue regarding how expensive the lord is. He's pretty beastly with some equipment though he ends up being like 230 points. I'll keep playtesting him to see.

[Deetwo]

You wanted to update the codex to 5th, but neglected to update the Monolith rules to reflect new skimmer/deep strike mechanics?

Also, the useless crap in the book is still useless crap. Here's a chance to make Pariahs, Wraiths and Flayed Ones attractive finally and you don't take it?
For one, there is absolutely no need to increase points costs even if phase out is removed, as a Necron army in it's current form isn't powerful enough to be a serious contender even without phaseout, it lacks punch and most of the units are way overpriced as it is.

Besides... The Necron codex does not need streamlining, it's in a serious need of additional complexity.

[Catty Nebulart]

Originally Posted by Terranarc

You notice that there isn't any phaseout? Thats why points were increased.

that helps but i would still be playing with my standard 5'th ed list which is 3 monoliths and 1 ctan, + 2* 10 warriors. it's extremly annoying to play against and to play with and it can't win any missions but kill points yet it is still the best 5'th ed list i have found.

Originally Posted by Terranarc

FnP lowers the negative Ld modifier by half. I'll have to playtest more to see if it really needs more close combat boost. You're probably thinking of something like a squad of ass termies running into 10 warriors.

More like 10 jump pack marines into 20 warrirors. Also half or more of the loses in CC are ussualy done by power weapons, so no FnP roll. Still rolling vs an expected leadership of 7 is much better than rolling against an expected leadership of 5.
Granted this is ameliorated by a resorb, but still.

Originally Posted by Terranarc

I haven't tested lightning field and chonometron (probably because they're useless) but I will say that the goal of this codex is to not be radical in any way. Ex: T5 4+ save necron warriors.

Fair enough but then update point costs at least. Lightning fields wouldn't be bad at 5 points or so, and you did upgrade disruption fields in a way that completly changes them from being anti vehicle to anti infantry.
And I will grant you that my codex is pretty radical.

Originally Posted by Terranarc

Also, I've yet to see an issue regarding how expensive the lord is. He's pretty beastly with some equipment though he ends up being like 230 points. I'll keep playtesting him to see.

He is pretty beastly compared to most non-HQ units, but for an HQ he is overcosted or underpowered. At 150 points he costs the same as an Avatar or Kaine, are you seriously telling me a necron lord is that good? Or what about an emperors champion who is both better and cheaper? Granted those two examples are severly undercosted units in my opinion, but they are official games workshop units.

Originally Posted by Deetwo

Besides... The Necron codex does not need streamlining, it's in a serious need of additional complexity.

Yes and no. It should be clearer and the gameplay should be more streamlined, and they could benefit from something that makes their army unique and worth playing.

Originally Posted by Deetwo

Necron army in it's current form isn't powerful enough to be a serious contender even without phaseout, it lacks punch and most of the units are way overpriced as it is.

The single biggest problem with the necron army are the warrirors. they need to be usefull or insanely durable for their point cost, they have the only non-assault weapon (effectively) in the necron army, the second problem is that most of their other units are also useless or at least severely overcosted.

That and we are still playing with a 3'rd ed codex in 5'th ed, so our rules are way out of date.

[SirSnipes]

fnp equals faildex

wbb makes us unique if i wanted plaque marines, id go chaos

btw are you a cron player, because this doesent seem to fix any of the issues

[Max Jet]

I think I have to agree to the other posters. The RULES itself need streamlining, I give you that (although I never found to be WBB that complex in the first place.. don't know what everyone is fussing about) You did a great job in achieving that. However the point costs really are a little bit to great, even without phase out, a Necron Lord just isn't worth that much points, as are flayed ones. You cannot just take a space marine without bolters and grenades, boost the costs by 50% and still call it a good unit. Most of the problems of the Necron race (boring, lack of Close Combat, senseless choices) have not been adressed in your codex. While you achieved your primary goals formidabiously, you didn't even adress the most important parts of the Necron Codex and the reason the army itself is not an attractive choice.
I'd really wish you would have been more creative with this one, new Lords, new heavy support (Obelisk) new wargear, more troop choices (I don't see whay flayed one should be a fast attack unit).
Basically in my humble opinion keeping the simpleness and lack of divergence in the Necron codex is exactly the wrong way to handle it..

[Terranarc]

I've noticed the same too, regarding that units are overpriced. But this was due to the codex design approach. Basically, make everything 2x the price you think it should be and reduce it from there on in based on playtesting.

In regards to FnP, I definitely agree that WBB was iconic for Necrons, as was phase out. However, WBB has some issues that FnP solves. For example, when someone sweeps your warriors, are the downed ones swept as well? The ones who are waiting for their WBB save. Granted in tournaments, SA > all rules but its not a clear cut rule.

Also what do you mean monolith in regards to skimmers/DS rule? Atm, the monolith's DS is like a drop pod's. Its DS with a twist. Cept in this case the monolith goes "GTFO"

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Also, the useless crap in the book is still useless crap. Here's a chance to make Pariahs, Wraiths and Flayed Ones attractive finally and you don't take it?

The goal of the codex is not to implement my vision or your vision. It's goal is not to change the function of any unit but simply bringing them to 5th. Pariahs and flayed ones got issues, true, but wraiths are far from gimped with rending. Power weapons on wraiths, however, is a huge no-no. Speed + High S + Power weapon = uber expensive unit which wouldn't be worth fielding.

@ Catty
You do have a good point but those are the results of the power creep. Take the HQ daemon prince for example. A naked prince with wings at 130 is retardedly under priced but its an official cost, possibly the best HQ you can get for that price.
I understand where you're coming from but if you exclude GW's power creep from the balancing view, how much would you price the lord at?

Also, the 3 monolith list, while effective, is the unfortunate by-product of an un-up-to-date-dex. While it's effective, its obviously min/maxing, which in my opinion, shouldn't be how players approach a codex because they have no other choice.

@Max Jet
I completely agree that the necron codex is simple and lacks any form of flamboyancy but this was just how necrons were designed by GW; simple marching waves of metal skeletons. This inherent theme and corresponding application of it in the codex for the necrons is GW's brainchild. While I understand your desire to "spice it up", all this codex is meant to do is to bring it into 5th with the original concept of necrons.

How would you try to spice it up while remaining faithful to GW's vision and theme of the crons while also remain within the domain of GW models?

[CrownAxe]

Here's the problem, Necrons are a underpowered codex, so they need an overall boost to their capabilities. So you take away Phase Out but you counter balance by making everything more expensive? We're back at square one and still a crappy codex

The only other thing you did was give rending to almost all unit at a cost. It just not a great bonus when our units cost so much already especially in your codex. The problem is that the assault-based units were already less then mediocre so you just bring them up to a mediocre level while shooting units only will use it defensively but still being 1A and I2 it just doesn't help that much.

And you replaced WBB with FNP. Just re-write WBB so that it works. It's not hard and is still fluffy.

Seriously what ever good things you did you ruined by making everything much more expensive and still not worth it.

[Deetwo]

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Also what do you mean monolith in regards to skimmers/DS rule? Atm, the monolith's DS is like a drop pod's. Its DS with a twist. Cept in this case the monolith goes "GTFO"

That part is fine, just that there's references to rules that are no longer in use..
Like skimmers drifting while stunned and getting destroyed by immobilized results (while being able to only move 6") and the deep strike rule could use some sort of rewrite to reflect the new deep strike mishap system... Like being immune to it when deep striking too close to enemy units (which was the original intention), not just ignoring destroyed result.

[Terranarc]

Originally Posted by CrownAxe

Here's the problem, Necrons are a underpowered codex, so they need an overall boost to their capabilities. So you take away Phase Out but you counter balance by making everything more expensive? We're back at square one and still a crappy codex

The only other thing you did was give rending to almost all unit at a cost. It just not a great bonus when our units cost so much already especially in your codex. The problem is that the assault-based units were already less then mediocre so you just bring them up to a mediocre level while shooting units only will use it defensively but still being 1A and I2 it just doesn't help that much.

And you replaced WBB with FNP. Just re-write WBB so that it works. It's not hard and is still fluffy.

Seriously what ever good things you did you ruined by making everything much more expensive and still not worth it.

Again, points cost is fluid. Pariahs underwent over 4 price changes for balance reasons as well as 2 rule changes (which were removed later on because they contradicted fluff).

Dclaws was never meant for the warriors. I don't think people even take it in the normal codex. On the other hand, put them on flayed ones and you've got a different story.

If you think something is overpriced, please tell me which and why. On the other hand if you don't like this codex at all then there's really nothing more I can do from my side. But honestly all criticism is good criticism as long as they say whats wrong instead of just "This sucks."

[CrownAxe]

I said whats wrong

The Cron codex is currently underpowered, so removing Phase out was good step at bringing Crons back to a playable level. But then you made almost everything more expensive with no other bonuses like stat boosts or better weapons. so you just nullified any boost that taking Phase Out had on better playability. Basically your codex still leave Crons as an underpowered codex which is what the problem is and you didn't fix it.

As for D-Fields, of course no one took them in the normal codex, that only applied to Close Combat attacks against vehicles meaning to use it you have to ignore shooting which is much better at glancing vehicles then close combat attacks. With rending it can give Crons an edge at not failing combat by ignoring a save or two. But with the boost in price combined with having to buy rending still isn't worth it, even on assault units.

This is what i said in my earlier post.

[Terranarc]

What I gathered from that was that prices were too high.

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But this was due to the codex design approach. Basically, make everything 2x the price you think it should be and reduce it from there on in based on playtesting.

Prices you can worry about later. If the unit has a valid fundamental function already then prices simply needs to be raised and/or lowered respectively to adequately represent how much that unit is actually worth. The biggest issue, imo, is getting the individual units right. Ex: The mono. Extremely hard to balance without phase out.

Also, if you were wondering, prices were generally all raised across the board when phaseout was removed for safe measure.
Someone once suggested that we should just change WBB into FnP, remove phaseout and keep everything the way it is. I lol'd. 3 MONOLITHS GO!

[CrownAxe]

What are you talking about?

Prices shouldn't go up at all, and maybe should go down instead

the Necron's codex is underpowered, so you ultimately need to give an overall boost to playability so that it's useful.

You fail to do this. While removing Phase Out does make Crons stronger, you nullified that playability boost by making almost everything MORE EXPENSIVE. Increasing the price of everything without any other bonus reduces playabilty.

So your codex didn't increase playability overall and that's the problem i'm having


If you still don't understand what i'm say let me give you an example

lets say Armies have a playability rating between 1-10, 5 being average, 10 being amazing playabilty and 1 being horrible playability. Necrons have a score of 3

Your codex removed Phase Out which is a +1 to their score, but then you increased everything's prices which is a -1 to their score. So what you did was 3+1-1=3

The Necron's playability is the same crappy score in your codex as it is in the real codex. You didn't ultimately fix anything you just changed a few things which ultimately did nothing. What you need to do is increase their score to something like 5-7 which means your going to add some real bonuses like stronger guns, better stats and/or good special rules

[Terranarc]

Originally Posted by CrownAxe

What are you talking about?

Prices shouldn't go up at all, and maybe should go down instead

the Necron's codex is underpowered, so you ultimately need to give an overall boost to playability so that it's useful.
...
The Necron's playability is the same crappy score in your codex as it is in the real codex. You didn't ultimately fix anything you just changed a few things which ultimately did nothing. What you need to do is increase their score to something like 5-7 which means your going to add some real bonuses like stronger guns, better stats and/or good special rules

Your point is that everything is so expensive that the necron codex is still uncompetitive.

I'm replying to you that in order to avoid an overpowered/ridiculous codex, prices cannot simply be taken down on an impulse. This is a problem with alot of fan codices that I've noticed, as well as various other people.

The creator (of many dexes) simply prices something at say, 50 points for unit X, because he/she feels that 50 points for unit X is adequate. Then the codex is playtested and the game is ruined because 50 points was too cheap.

Now, the codex is v0.019 because 18 versions came before it. The monolith and many other units have had their points cost changed due to actual playtesting.

I think what you're missing is that this is not the final codex. It is a WIP until 2015 or something when GW decides to work on necron codex.

Now, you're saying that things are overcosted so the entire army still suck. I'd like to politely ask "which ones?"

Are all units overpriced? Or maybe just most? At least give me 1 example and why instead of bashing the entire codex without any specific supporting references.

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5-25 squad size

IMO, any less than 10 man a squad of necrons is unfluffy and not parallel with the intention for warriors that GW originally had.

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Units caught by sweeping advance in combat are stuck in reserve rather than being removed.(models killed in the combat don't get to WBB)

Do they become their own units? If so then do they count as separate Killpoints when they come onto the field?
Or do they join with other squads waiting to come from reserve? Or can the player choose to mix and match to create as many squads as he can? Or perhaps as few squads as he can with the SA'd downed necrons.

[Deetwo]

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Now, you're saying that things are overcosted so the entire army still suck. I'd like to politely ask "which ones?"

Are all units overpriced? Or maybe just most? At least give me 1 example and why instead of bashing the entire codex without any specific supporting references.

All of them. This has been true since the first release of the Necron Codex. Pariahs being the worst offender by far.
The current pricetag might be a bit more justified if the gauss rule went through a revamp though, along with other major tweaks.

But Phase Out does not necessarily have to be removed I think...
Maybe WBB could provide protection against "remove model/unit" effects as well, but being under the Phase Out treshold would remove that. This way the mechanic would represent the Necrons starting to port back to their tomb ships gradually instead of instantly.

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IMO, any less than 10 man a squad of necrons is unfluffy and not parallel with the intention for warriors that GW originally had.

So you'd rather be rigidly faithful of the very old fluff of Necrons instead of trying to make a good, competitive and interesting codex?
Afterall, it's the original design that's the major issue with the book. As it stands, every FoC slot needs more options through both unit choices and wargear options within those units... Which is not the original intention, but it IS what Necrons actually need.

[Vermin-thing]

Forget point costs, the problem is that many of the units are still useless even if they were free.

Okay lets look at the flayed one unit.

Whats wrong with them? There are Elite, and certainty not at that great. They fail to do nearly enough damage to even compete with Immortals, and are generally not very good. Thus they fail to do their job.

How do we fix them? We look at where they should be in the force organization chart. They should have been in troops.

So we've got two options, keep them in elite, and tailor them to fill a role within the army which other units can't fill. Or move them to troops, and make them more close combat oriented.

Version: .01

Stats: same.

Type: troops.

Unit size: 10-20.

Equipment: Long bloody claws, and flayed skin (enemies suffer -1 to hit in combat).

Special rules: rending (4+), overwhelming terror.

Overwhelming terror:

Any unit must take a Ld test to assault flayed ones in combat, any enemy unit that suffers a wound(s) in combat must pass a Ld test at -1 leadership at the end of the combat round or become pinned. This rule does not effect fearless models.

Now we have a less vulnerable combat unit that can pin key enemy units so the rest of the army can freely shoot at them.

Profit!

[CrownAxe]

Vermin-thing, Flayed Ones are an Elite Choice, not Fast Attack

and yes they don't do a lot of damage, but most people don't realize that they are a shock troop and aren't meant to do a lot of damage. Still overcosted but but not as much when you compare them to their real job

[Son of Sanguinius]

I must respectfully disagree with you, Vermin-thing. (Saying that makes me feel...Skaveny)

I don't see how the Overwhelming Terror special rule is justified by anything other than giving them a boost. Same goes for the special Rending and the Flayed Skin.

If y'all don't mind, here's my version:

Flayed Ones, Elites choice, 23 points per model

WS-5, BS-3, S-4, T-5, W-1, I-4, A-2, Ld-10, Sv- 3+

Composition: 5-20

Necrotalons: These count as a pair of power weapons that confer the Rending special rule.

Unnatural Horror: All enemy units within 6" of the Flayed Ones suffer a -1 Leadership penalty for any Morale check they are called upon to take.

They Came From Below: Flayed Ones may always be held in Reserves and deployed using Deep Strike, even if the mission does not normally allow. If the unit is deployed in this way, the unit's controller may elect to have the unit assault on the turn it arrives. Note that the unit may choose to run or assault in the turn that it arrives, but not both. This decision is made before rolling to scatter.

The cost can change, especially depending on what general special rules they get for being Necrons. I valued them with Feel No Pain in mind, assuming that any different special rule would function and cost similarly.

[Terranarc]

@Deetwo
You think heavy destroyers are overpriced at 55 points. Now you're trolling.

@ vermin

I heavily disagree with rending on 4+ for 2 reasons:
Firstly, you might as well give them power weapons then
Secondly, it gives them an anti-vehicle role which is not the purpose of the flayed ones. Imo, a distinction exists between flayed ones and pariahs for a reason; the pariahs are the anti-vehicle CC elites (1A, I3 and 2d6 armor pen as evidence) while the flayed ones deal with general infantry in CC(2A, I4).

I've yet to playtest how flayed ones would do with power weapons but i might as well give that a try. Imo though, if they should become troop choices, then power weapons would be a bit much.

Regarding the moving them down to troops thing, I wonder if that would be imbalanced by the fact that your whole army would then be able to infiltrate.

@SoS
T5 is interesting but I have to note that it seems that only the super valued units of the necrons gain T5 as a result of their more advanced bio-mechanical-necron build thing. Like the pariahs and the immortals, for example. Normal necrons like warriors and flayed ones seem to be neglected.

Also, I disagree on the WS5/BS3 thing partly because of the fact that not even the lord or the pariahs have WS5. Also, variable stats doesn't feel very consistent with the necron theme. Even tomb spyders have 2/2 (which I think should be at least 3/2 or 3/3 but meh).

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Unnatural Horror: All enemy units within 6" of the Flayed Ones suffer a -1 Leadership penalty for any Morale check they are called upon to take.

I cant say if this is better than the whole, Ld save to see if you hit on 6's or not. On the other hand, it makes more sense than "Ld save to see if you can hit normally or not even if you're fearless"