Storm Banner can be reactivated?

[TroyJPerez]

Once the storm banner is activated and then fails its 4+ to keep working. Can the skaven player just reactivate it again? It never says one use only anywhere but I think this is an abuse of a badly worded banner. Any comments?

[Ward.]

Yes, but not in the turn that it runs out apparently.

From the way I read it, it also doesn't seem to have any effect on war-machines that don't use BS anymore.

[nosferatu1001]

Apart from the line that non-magical shooting that doesnt use BS requires a 4+ to work? It's buried in the text.

Yes, it isnt one use only, whether that is meant to be the case or not I don't know.

[Ward.]

Originally Posted by nosferatu1001

Apart from the line that non-magical shooting that doesn't use BS requires a 4+ to work? It's buried in the text.

Ah, it was the "non-magical missile" part that got me.

[nosferatu1001]

It's a way of stating that mages don't need to roll a 4+ to cast spells

[Ward.]

Originally Posted by nosferatu1001

It's a way of stating that mages don't need to roll a 4+ to cast spells

They really should have just said ranged or shooting attack then.

[Slicktober]

Originally Posted by nosferatu1001

It's a way of stating that mages don't need to roll a 4+ to cast spells

It also exempts Runed up cannons, Stone Throwers, Screaming Skull Catapults, Banshees and most Skaven war machines.

Because they are magical missile attacks that don’t use BS to hit their target they can't be "nonmagical missile attacks that don’t use BS to hit their target" and are therefore specifically excluded.

[Ganymede]

No, it can not.

In order to reactivate the banner, the banner must first be deactivated. As there are no provisions in the banner's rules for deactivating the banner, there is no way reactivate the banner in order to renew the storm.

To make an analogy, consider the activation of this banner as flipping on a light switch. What people are proprosing here is flipping on a light switch that is already flipped on. Just as you can't flip on a switch that is already flipped on, you can't activate something that is already activated.

[Slicktober]

Once the Banner's effect runs out, it's inactive.

When something is inactive it can be reactivated.

It will receive an errata.

[Ganymede]

Originally Posted by Slicktober

Once the Banner's effect runs out, it's inactive.

That sounds pretty non sequiter to me. I don't see any reason to believe that the first statement leads to the second.

[Slicktober]

In what way is a banner without an effective "active?"
In what way are you proposing to abuse that word?

Or are you questioning the link between "it's inactive" and "we can reactivate it?

Here are some definitions of "reactivate," note that it need not be "deactivated" only that doing so makes it active again (regardless of its status before you did so):

Quote

1. To make active again.
2. To restore the ability to function or the effectiveness of.

[Ganymede]

Originally Posted by Slicktober

In what way is a banner without an effective "active?"

The banner is still active because the banner's rules don't tell us that it ever deactivates.

You're trying to tell me that the dissipation of the missile-hampering storm is the deactivation, but you don't actually have any reason or evidence to believe that. You're basically just adding in words to the rule.


RAW, the banner has no in game effect once the storm runs out.

[Slicktober]

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RAW, the banner has no in game effect once the storm runs out.

And how pray tell does something with no effect count as "active" in any way shape or form?

Additionally the Storm Banner rules say nothing about "reactivating" and only mention "activate."

You can activate something whenever you want, even when it is "active."

[Bac5665]

Wow, Ganymede you are just completely wrong. RAW! there only RAW on this is the Oxford-English Dictoinary. Or Websters. It doesn't matter. By definition, the rules of an item ARE its effects. There are no effects other than what the rules say, so there are no "mystery effects" active that we just don't know about. I know that I'm right because somewhere the GW book would have to affermatively state that there are, or even simply could be, "mystery effects." Remember, all rules sets are inherently affirmative, and that words mean what they normally mean in the language they're written in. The strict rules of rules interpretation AND common sense, point to slicktober being entirely correct.

[Urgat]

Originally Posted by Ganymede

No, it can not.

In order to reactivate the banner, the banner must first be deactivated. As there are no provisions in the banner's rules for deactivating the banner, there is no way reactivate the banner in order to renew the storm.

To make an analogy, consider the activation of this banner as flipping on a light switch. What people are proprosing here is flipping on a light switch that is already flipped on. Just as you can't flip on a switch that is already flipped on, you can't activate something that is already activated.

What about those timed switches? You push it, it turns the light on for 5 minutes. You don't desactivate it, it does it by itself. And even better, you don't even need to wait for it to switch off to reset it again!
Really, that's ridiculous.

[Ganymede]

Originally Posted by Slicktober

You can activate something whenever you want, even when it is "active."

This is absurd. Try it some time.

Try activating a cigarette lighter when it is already activated; it is impossible.

Originally Posted by Urgat

What about those timed switches? You push it, it turns the light on for 5 minutes. You don't desactivate it, it does it by itself. And even better, you don't even need to wait for it to switch off to reset it again!

It still deactivates. Nothing in the banner's rules allows it to deactivate.

Originally Posted by Bac5665

Wow, Ganymede you are just completely wrong. RAW! there only RAW on this is the Oxford-English Dictoinary. Or Websters. It doesn't matter. By definition, the rules of an item ARE its effects. There are no effects other than what the rules say, so there are no "mystery effects" active that we just don't know about.

Thank you for agreeing with me; this is what I've been saying the whole time. People here keeping adding in this mystery deactivation effect that just isn't in the banner's rules.

Quote

I know that I'm right because somewhere the GW book would have to affermatively state that there are, or even simply could be, "mystery effects." Remember, all rules sets are inherently affirmative, and that words mean what they normally mean in the language they're written in. The strict rules of rules interpretation AND common sense, point to slicktober being entirely correct.

Other than you reaching a completely absurd conclusion, you are exactly right. In order for the item to be deactivated (and allowing for a reactivation), it would need to be affirmatively stated. It ain't, so tough nuggets.

[Foxbat]

Once activated, is the test a failure of the item itself or just a test to see if the effect applies that turn or not?

[Ganymede]

The test determines whether or not the storm effect continues to the next turn or runs out.

[nosferatu1001]

Failure of the item itself

[Foxbat]

So the problem is that the Banner is not noted as a “one time” use item, but the rule also doesn’t advise as to when/how you re-activate the Banner once its fails.

Where players disagree, it may end up being a MIR roll off until cleared up by GW.