Arming Grey Knights?

[hendybadger]

I am wondering. How do people arm their Grey Knights/
Power Armour and Terminators.
What special weapons do you use?
What squad sizes do you run?
What do you give BCs and Justs?
What role do you use each unit for?

Thanks in Advance

[Gunfighter_IX]

Originally Posted by hendybadger

I am wondering. How do people arm their Grey Knights/
Power Armour and Terminators.
What special weapons do you use?
What squad sizes do you run?
What do you give BCs and Justs?
What role do you use each unit for?

Thanks in Advance

Grey Knight Terminators aren't cheap; I try to keep mine as inexpensive as possible.

However, if you want to take special weapons, arm your Brother Captain with the same special weapon to increase squad role effectiveness. A Psycannon build will run you +55 points, and Incinerator build +35. These depend on if you know what you'll be facing. Daemons and Eldar Councils hate both of these weapons.

I run my GKT in squads of 6 or 7 members. I find 5 too small and 10 to many points to sink into one unit.

For the Brother Captain/Grand Master, I always take a Psychic Hood, and if I know I'll be facing Chaos, Sacred Incense.

I don't ever run PAGK, but from what I know:
Don't take special weapons. They drive up the cost of an already overpriced unit, and you lose the NFW, which is a great asset to GK's. Justicars always get Frag Grenades and Targeters. If you're going to specialize for an opponent, Psycannon Bolts might be worth spending your last 10 points on.

These squads should be 7 or 8 strong, if not 10. They die just as easily as regular Marines.

[hendybadger]

I think my troops will be mainly PAGK.

[Formerly Wu]

Many people will tell you to not run any special weapons in your Power Armored GK squads. Storm Bolters are already pretty much the best basic infantry weapon available, and Grey Knights can additionally use them as pistols in CC if they didn't charge. Plus, with each Grey Knight being so valuable, taking a psycannon robs you of a Grey Knight, his storm bolter and Nemesis attacks, AND his wound, in exchange for some marginally more powerful shots. Not always a great trade.

Incinerators at least don't cost an entire PAGK to buy, but they're largely useful right before a charge, which (with True Grit) GKs aren't obligated to seek. I've seen incinerators taken by Land Raider-mounted GKs, who use tank shock to line up the enemy before firing; your mileage may vary.

Terminators and your Brother-Captain should always take a psycannon however, as they're a more resilient bunch and make good fire platforms.

Squad size is a question for me too. On one hand, you're fearless and thus don't fear small squads being run off the board; on the other, you'll want to maximize your LOS-blocking ability and storm bolter love. I'm using max squad size at the moment, we'll see how that goes.

Upgrades should be kept as cheap as possible, you need to save up for more GKs. I run the basic BC with just a psycannon, and give my Justicars targeters so as to better plan my kiting.

[Gunfighter_IX]

Originally Posted by Formerly Wu

Many people will tell you to not run any special weapons in your Power Armored GK squads. Storm Bolters are already pretty much the best basic infantry weapon available, and Grey Knights can additionally use them as pistols in CC if they didn't charge. Plus, with each Grey Knight being so valuable, taking a psycannon robs you of a Grey Knight, his storm bolter and Nemesis attacks, AND his wound, in exchange for some marginally more powerful shots. Not always a great trade.

This is a much better way of saying what I was getting at.

Originally Posted by Formerly Wu

Incinerators at least don't cost an entire PAGK to buy, but they're largely useful right before a charge, which (with True Grit) GKs aren't obligated to seek. I've seen incinerators taken by Land Raider-mounted GKs, who use tank shock to line up the enemy before firing; your mileage may vary.

I guess tank-shock+flame is the only way to really be effective with an Incinerator. The short range just hurts you while you're firing at max range (which you always want to do).

Originally Posted by Formerly Wu

Terminators and your Brother-Captain should always take a psycannon however, as they're a more resilient bunch and make good fire platforms.

Have you found the 55 points it takes to arm your Brother Captain and Terminator with Psycannons worth the loss of an entire Terminator?

Originally Posted by Formerly Wu

Squad size is a question for me too. On one hand, you're fearless and thus don't fear small squads being run off the board; on the other, you'll want to maximize your LOS-blocking ability and storm bolter love. I'm using max squad size at the moment, we'll see how that goes.

If you take Psycannons like you mentioned above, a 10-man terminator unit is 515 points and must Deep Strike or run on foot. How has this set up been working?

Originally Posted by Formerly Wu

Upgrades should be kept as cheap as possible, you need to save up for more GKs. I run the basic BC with just a psycannon, and give my Justicars targeters so as to better plan my kiting.

Do not forget Frag Grenades for +1 point. Charging is not optimal, but there are times where you will want to eliminate a small unit in cover.

[hendybadger]

So spec weps should usually be avioded in PAGKs?
WHat about TH SS on the GKTs?

[Formerly Wu]

Originally Posted by Gunfighter_IX

Have you found the 55 points it takes to arm your Brother Captain and Terminator with Psycannons worth the loss of an entire Terminator?

I use Terminators in a fire support role, so I find it more efficient to maintain the hitting power. Let the Troops choices handle resilience.

Quote

If you take Psycannons like you mentioned above, a 10-man terminator unit is 515 points and must Deep Strike or run on foot. How has this set up been working?

Sorry, I wasn't being clear; I max squads of PAGK, not GKT. My Terminators run with 4 and the attached BC; pretty much just a psycannon delivery unit.

Quote

Do not forget Frag Grenades for +1 point. Charging is not optimal, but there are times where you will want to eliminate a small unit in cover.

An excellent point.

[Formerly Wu]

Originally Posted by hendybadger

WHat about TH SS on the GKTs?

I would not at all recommend that. First off, the SS in the Daemonhunters codex are only a 4+ invul.

More importantly though, TH/SS requires a Land Raider charging forward into enemy territory. Grey Knights work by kiting enemies with their storm bolters, so you won't have any support, and your GKTs will arrive, hit a unit hard, and then go down in a blaze of glory IF they're lucky, costing you more than half your points. Again, IF you're lucky. It's a lousy tradeoff all around.

[mdauben]

Originally Posted by hendybadger

I am wondering. How do people arm their Grey Knights/Power Armour and Terminators.
What special weapons do you use?
What squad sizes do you run?
What do you give BCs and Justs?
What role do you use each unit for?

For GK Termis, I like squads of at least 6 (BC+5). More would be even better, but unless you are playing a huge (2000+ pts) game, the cost is just prohibitive. I genreally take one TH/SS in the squad, and an Incinerator as far as weapons upgrades. For my BC's, I generally stick with the NFW/SB set up, but if I have the points I will Master-Craft the NFW and/or equip his SB with Psycannon Bolts. This unit is obviously my heavy strike unit, and I try to send it in against the toughest targets in my opponent's force. Deep striking them is a useful, if dangerous tactic, although it does have the advantage of being much cheaper than taking an LRC to transport the squad.

For PAGK, I like to field them in units of 8-10, with 2xPsycannon. For the Justicars, I really don't routinly take much for them. Sometimes Meltabombs or Purity Seals if I have some left-over points, but nothing beyond that. Some people recomend against taking special weapons in PAGK squads, becuase the two Psycannon PAGK lose their NFW. The thing is, I think they are operating under the assumption that PAGK are primarily an assault unit. IMHO, they are not. Its true they are good in CC, but with all those stormbolters (and Psycannon) they are also good at shooting and to get the most out of them you need to do both with them. So, these guys I use to shoot up my opponent's forces as I advance, cutting them down and only later moving into CC to wipe out the survivors.As long as you keep the squad size up, there are still plenty of NFW to carve up most units even with the special weapons. This also can make them good for defending objectives. (Not saying it always works for me, but that's the cunning plan!).

Alternatly, for Teleport Attack PAGK, I still like big squads but will sometimes replace the 2xPsycannon with 2xIncinerators. Since the TA-PAGK are likely to get in close quicker the standard PAGK squad, I feel the shorter range of the Incinerator is less of a handicap, and the template is too good to pass up. These guys are obviously dropping in on key units of the opposition; IG heavy weapons teams, Tau Broadsides, even just massed infantry can be tempting targets. You can also jump in to take and hold objectives with these units. And of course if there are no worthile targets, you can always just deploy them as normal PAGK squads.

Of course, as far as tactics go these are just general ideas. Every game and every opponent are different, so you can't get too locked into one mind-set before the game even starts. GK Termis, PAGK and TA-PAGK are all flexibile enough to take on different tasks, so keep your eyes and your options open when you field your Daemonhunters.

[Gunfighter_IX]

Originally Posted by Formerly Wu

I would not at all recommend that. First off, the SS in the Daemonhunters codex are only a 4+ invul.

More importantly though, TH/SS requires a Land Raider charging forward into enemy territory. Grey Knights work by kiting enemies with their storm bolters, so you won't have any support, and your GKTs will arrive, hit a unit hard, and then go down in a blaze of glory IF they're lucky, costing you more than half your points. Again, IF you're lucky. It's a lousy tradeoff all around.

I agree with all of the above. Even worse, the DH Storm Shield is only for close combat, and can only be used against one opponent. It's very limiting.

[hendybadger]

But the weapons would look so good on a GKT

[Gunfighter_IX]

Originally Posted by hendybadger

But the weapons would look so good on a GKT

Then model them that way!

The Nemesis Force Weapon says nothing about that exactly the weapon is; it could even be a hammer. And Terminators already get a 5+ invulnerable save, so model some shields to their storm bolter arm.

Just be clear with your opponent that they are, in fact, armsed with NFW+SB and not TH+SS.

[hendybadger]

Trying to work out a conversion with some bits infront of me at the moment

[SirSnipes]

can gkt ds

[toonboy78]

at 1500 pys i play 3 PA squads and terms in a retinue

stern with 4 GK (2 with TH/SS)

7 GKPA psy inc frag melta
7 GKPA inc frag melta
5 GKPA 2 psy

supported by 2 dreads with lascannons and a godhammer raider

yes they do very well against daemons, psycannons 3's to hit 2's to kill against most stuff

it's hard to build a balanced list with these guys against anything else you are paying for stuff that you don't use

[pringles978]

im fond of taking one guy with thammer in my units, its helpfull to have the extra hitting power available just in case. you can take it on a brother captain, then pay the points for a psycannon and just loose the shield, as you can only get 2 weapons. not sure if this has been erratad, but nobody has pointed it out so far.

[hendybadger]

What about having it on a normal GKT?
And maybe 2 PCs inc the BC?

[Apostolos]

I personally like using a Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield on my Brother Captain for the reasons that first his one wound & 5+ invulnerable save is a little weak in my opinion for a HQ. Also I4 for a HQ is low as well. Depending on how you USE the unit will determine how you arm them. I use the terminators for assault because I have success with them in that department. I have even more success when I have a Thunder Hammer handy because dreadnoughts can be annoying without one.

A peak at my current 1500 configuration:

BC w/TH & SS
Retinue of 9 GKTs

8 PAGK w/ Homer & 2 incinerators
8 PAGK w/ Homer & 2 incinerators

2 Land Raider Crusaders

[hendybadger]

Looks fun. But no Psycannons?

[Chimaera2000]

Grey Knight Terminators are a powerful, expensive unit with a vulnerability: enemy walkers. The Nemesis is the best weapon choice for most situations, but if an Dreadnought or Wraithlord assaults them they will be ineffective. While superior foresight or maneuverability (like with good Land Raider movement) might allow you to evade them, I feel that arming a small number of Terminators with Thunder Hammers is a much easier option to use. Not only does it allow you to hurt walkers, it also improves your efficiency against against vehicles in close assaults and gives a chance to inflict Instant Death on T4 commanders.

Another option is to use the Hammerhand power on a Grey Knight Hero; what have been others' experiences with it?