8th Edition and new starter set.

[Gaius Marius]

I still think it works, because I am not advocating doing away with the basic casting value. So - I cast Beast Cowers, at a roll of 1-6, I fail. A roll of 7-13, I succeed, but can be dispelled as normal. A roll of 14+, I succeed, and am not dispellable. Double 1's always fails and miscasts, and do away with 2 sixes being irristable force.

This means that low level spells can be pushed through (and they should not be game winning spells), and that mid level spells can go either way, but high level spells will be castable, but very rarely unstopable.

Interesting posiblity though.

[ganymed]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

On an unrelated note one possible change for magic could be allowing for irresistable force if you roll double the casting value. So a power 4+ spell would be unstopable on an 8+, but a spirit of the forge at 12+ would require 24+ to be unstopable. This might make medium levels of magic more viable, as a level 2 wizard could still force through a 5+ or 6+ casting value spell, semi-reliably. A few tweaks to the basic lores, and voila, magic that scales.

That is an excellent idea, i like it alot. It´s simple, elegant and it really does make medium magic usable. The best argument is that you only need to change the BasicRulebook and not the corresponding armybooks. Again, i like this idea very much, Great work !!

[Tauren]

At the same time I am curious as to how powerful it will allow a user to abuse some spells. Not being able to dispell things like "van hells" could make it a lot worse, unless you can scroll the spell before it is cast.

[Shimmergloom]

Quote

I guess that means I'll be either expanding my goblin army into including orcs, or just painting enough new goblins to make them legal again after a possible (inevitable?) points drop.

I would hope that at the very least goblins and night goblins are 2.5pts each w/lt armor or shields with 1/2pt equipment upgrades.

I'd be estatic to have 2pt goblins and night goblins with no equipment and 1/2pt equipment upgrades.

Change we'll show'em from D6 toward the nearest enemy to D6" extra movement(only allowed to move forward/backward or wheel, no reforms) and they'd be nice again.

[warhawk95]

I don't think making spells over a certain point guarantee is going to solve anything. Yes, magic medium is now better, but at the same time so is magic heavy. If anything now all your doing is encouraging more PD. The more PD they have the more they can throw at one or two really good spells and now those spells are 100% success. And being able to throw a scroll at it first wouldnt help because what if the spell doesnt cast? Oh sorry I didnt failed to cast my spell and you now have a waisted scroll.

I think the best solution is to either stop spamming spells, like a -1 to cast after each time a spell is cast in the same magic phase. Or a diminishing return on magic, like after 6 PD lvl 1 mages dont get any powerdice, lvl 2s only get one ect. There could be things like this only accounts for what the mages themselves bring, not accounting for magic banners and possibly items. but this would force an army that brings a lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2s with only 8 PD wouidnt be nearly that effective for their point cost. As oppose to a lone lvl 4, and 2 lvl 2s which would proably be the most point efficent. Some armies like VC might have it changed to say 7PD. This would encourage magic medium because heavy magic isnt nearly as efficent. There would proably be some form of scaling sysyem too, like at 1000 points 5PD 2000 6PD 3000 8PD, ect.

[Mr_Rose]

Ooh, here's an idea; two miscast tables:
One for just failing to cast which has a bunch of random effects like blanking spells from memory and such, and a "catastrophic miscast" table for those pesky double-ones, with effects that start from "caster takes a wound, no saves" and work up, depending on the number of ones rolled.

Actually, scratch that:
Make any roll of a 1 a "miscast" effect that happens in addition to the spell going off (or not) and have a bigger table that you roll a number of dice on equal to the number of ones rolled, so you start at 1 with a "weirding effect" that produces pretty lights but otherwise doesn't affect the spell being cast (lucky escape!) up to results which annihilate the caster, stop the spell and wound everyone in btb with the crater where he used to be, and maybe even worse. That way you can potentially punish IoN spam, as well as make channelling huge quantities of magic as ridiculously dangerous as it should be.

[mrtn]

Originally Posted by Mr_Rose

Ooh, here's an idea; two miscast tables:
One for just failing to cast which has a bunch of random effects like blanking spells from memory and such, and a "catastrophic miscast" table for those pesky double-ones, with effects that start from "caster takes a wound, no saves" and work up, depending on the number of ones rolled.

Actually, scratch that:
Make any roll of a 1 a "miscast" effect that happens in addition to the spell going off (or not) and have a bigger table that you roll a number of dice on equal to the number of ones rolled, so you start at 1 with a "weirding effect" that produces pretty lights but otherwise doesn't affect the spell being cast (lucky escape!) up to results which annihilate the caster, stop the spell and wound everyone in btb with the crater where he used to be, and maybe even worse. That way you can potentially punish IoN spam, as well as make channelling huge quantities of magic as ridiculously dangerous as it should be.

And remove all magic from the game. Isn't there some game without
magic you can play, like a WW2 game or something?

[Dai-Mongar]

Just throwing my 2 cents in...

Originally Posted by -Grimgorironhide-

Here are 10 things that I would love to see in 8th ed. It might help restore some of the lost balance tha fantasy is suffering from currently.

1. With Difficult terrain you are at a -1 to your normal M value (i.e a normal man can march upto 6" instead of 4 like our current rules), Half in very difficult. Help the Terrain problem abit.
I agree, they need to make terrain less of an unescapable quagmire.
2. Ws chart changes so that if your Ws is 4pts+ higher you hit on 2's and in the reverse situation you hit on 6's. Gives Ws abit more importance.
They had a table like this in Warhammer Quest. Striking an opponent with over 3x your WS is 6+ to hit, and against an opponent with less than half your WS it's 2+.
3. Combat res changes.
-If you outnumber your Opponent 2-1+ you get +2 instead of +1 and if its 3-1+ its +3. Max +3. Helps cheap Infantry more.
-Flank and rear charge bonuses are +2 and +3 instead of +1 and +2.
-Rank Bonuses are maxed at 4+
-Rank bonuses are based on the units base size. I.e 20mm=5 models, 25mm=4 models and 40mm=3.
Extra outnumber makes sense, but if you've got that then you don't really need the extra rank bonus as well. As has been pointed out, it can get very ridiculous very quickly. As it stands, I don't think the number of models per rank needs to change.
4. Stubborn is instead of unmodified Ld its at a max -1 to their Ld. It gives the impression that though they are hardy and stubborn they would still be a tiny bit shaken by losing the combat.
This seems to be needlessly complicated when the current Stubborn rule is quite elegant.
5. Swarms lose wounds equal to half the res they lost by rounded up.
Sounds very reasonable.
6. Mounted GW are +2 to str instead of +1.
Oh, hell no! There's a reason they changed this from 6th, crazy vampires and Chaos lords charging all over the place...
7. Halberds are +1 Str and armour piercing.
Improves some mediocre troops (like Empire) but would make some elite troops (like WoC) a lot more powerful. Could be fair, though.
8. Short Bows, Bows and Long Bows +6" to their range.
Probably not a good idea, then regular bowmen would be able to shoot into the opposing deployment zone without moving.
9. Miscast table more friendly.
Magic heavy armies need to be punished!
10. Improve the lores. I,e Second sign is the default spell for Heavens again while comet is at a 10+ to cast, etc.
Interesting, Second Sign used to be the default spell in 6th ed. I rarely use the lore of Heavens myself, so I can't really comment.
Cheers.

A few of your ideas seem to be reverting to 6th edition rules, I don't know whether that's intentional or not. I'd definitely like to see the alterations to the movement and swarm rules come to pass.

[TrojanWolf]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

On an unrelated note one possible change for magic could be allowing for irresistable force if you roll double the casting value. So a power 4+ spell would be unstopable on an 8+, but a spirit of the forge at 12+ would require 24+ to be unstopable. This might make medium levels of magic more viable, as a level 2 wizard could still force through a 5+ or 6+ casting value spell, semi-reliably. A few tweaks to the basic lores, and voila, magic that scales.

Y'know, I read this and the first thing that came to mind was the image of a Skaven player trying to cast Curse of the Horned Rat with IF.

[Mr_Rose]

Originally Posted by mrtn

And remove all magic from the game. Isn't there some game without
magic you can play, like a WW2 game or something?

Would you care to explain how this "removes magic from the game" or are you just going to sit there and hurl pejoratives as if they make you right?

[static grass]

Just have to make casting roll of 2 or less as miscast - not just snake eyes - to cut down on the IoN spam.

My feeling this will only slightly reduce the cheese factor but every little helps I supposed

[strewart]

Originally Posted by Everyone

Blah blah blah WISHLISTING

Is there really a point to this thread? I mean, I could add my 'perfect solution' to the game but it doesn't mean GW is going to listen or care. Can a new thread be started when another rumour actually arrises rather than all this 'I think that they should......' stuff?

[mrtn]

Originally Posted by Mr_Rose

Would you care to explain how this "removes magic from the game" or are you just going to sit there and hurl pejoratives as if they make you right?

I'm sorry if you felt insulted. I just thought that it was a stupid idea, since magic is very random as it is, and that miscast on a 1 would make a lot of people (at least me) give up on magic altogether. I'm not paying 300 points for a character that can't go a game without something like five miscasts.

[Dranthar]

Originally Posted by strewart

Is there really a point to this thread? I mean, I could add my 'perfect solution' to the game but it doesn't mean GW is going to listen or care. Can a new thread be started when another rumour actually arrises rather than all this 'I think that they should......' stuff?

Seconded. This has very literally become a wishlisting thread. Could we please move such discussion to a new thread and get on with some ON TOPIC disussion?

[tarrasque]

Originally Posted by Phelix

Man why cant we have something like Wood Elves being besieged by Tomb Kings in the next one....

because they are both race that stay in there own land? and i think tk are to difficult as starting pack

but i would love to see a tk vs... edition but only if they get a new book.

[Anton]

I'm interested in what the new O&G army book will look like. Mostly, I'd love to see pure Goblin or pure Orc armies viable. I love Goblins, and would like to field them successfully on their own.

[sulla]

Originally Posted by tarrasque

because they are both race that stay in there own land? and i think tk are to difficult as starting pack

but i would love to see a tk vs... edition but only if they get a new book.

There's no reason not to have woodies besieged by some barrow king though. That's probably what they need in the next edition TK book. A barrow king SC.

[Tokamak]

Originally Posted by -Grimgorironhide-

3. Combat res changes.
-If you outnumber your Opponent 2-1+ you get +2 instead of +1 and if its 3-1+ its +3. Max +3. Helps cheap Infantry more.
-Flank and rear charge bonuses are +2 and +3 instead of +1 and +2.
-Rank Bonuses are maxed at 4+
-Rank bonuses are based on the units base size. I.e 20mm=5 models, 25mm=4 models and 40mm=3.

I love that.

[Brotheroracle]

Originally Posted by static grass

Just have to make casting roll of 2 or less as miscast - not just snake eyes - to cut down on the IoN spam.

My feeling this will only slightly reduce the cheese factor but every little helps I supposed

Probably the best idea I've heard so far in regards to magic

[Gekiganger]

Originally Posted by Dranthar

Seconded. This has very literally become a wishlisting thread. Could we please move such discussion to a new thread and get on with some ON TOPIC disussion?

Thirded

I came to see if any more news was up about the starting sets content since harry said he thought O&G + Empire but had heard rumours of other options - instead I find people proposing how magic works and I'll be damned if I want to trawl through 300 posts of wishlisting.