Crom the Conqueror, Is he dead?

[kramplarv]

personally I believe Crom is removed due to the fat he is one of the most boring and uncharacterful characters of the game. He is in the same league as Grimgor.

An SC who does nthing, but jsut being a slightly better lord than the generic ones.
why is crom bring? since he is a chaos lord and no special attributes or gameplay comes with him. And a really boring and two dimensional fluff. blah.

same with grimgor. Grimgor is just a bigger, meaner black orc warbozz. Azhag the slaughterer is 10 times as cool as grimgor because of the fact that azhag is very un-orcy.

This is why i think crom is dropped. he was just as a generic lord. Nothing spectacular. Except the model. that one is an ACE

[MF3000]

re: kramplarv - so, why is crom bring?

lol ...sorry that just made me crack up. Ah hem, but I do mean it as a joke, Engrish is not my first language so I shouldn't be making jokes like that lol.

I like where you're going with the argument though... Crom was a 'character' but he's not very 'special' is he? But maybe that's the charm of ol' Crom. Unlike the four prophetic leaders in the Storm of Chaos campaign, Crom was what he intended to be - second in command to Archaon. For me, I think that makes him a very neat and concise character, as the 'yes sir' type leader going all out for his boss, Archaon. Think of him as a literary character-type, a foil, for the Archaon as well as the 'Four' - Harrgoth, Feytor, Styrkaar, and Melekh. I think you can forgive Crom for being slightly un-special as a character in that light. He is what he is, and I don't really expect his stats to change to reflect a 'cooler Crom'.

Azhag died. Grimgor didn't - Azhag is certainly one of the more different style of orc warlords, thanks to the magical crown, but ... if thieving stuff is orcy, surely being the biggest and the baddest black orc is a definite characteristic to being green and mean. But like you said, maybe the appeal of Azhag is that he is seemingly un-orcy (although I do not think so, his thieving attitude is so orcy; thievery is one of the many great reasons why orcs are prone to animosity tests).

As far as I know Crom may have been dropped for a lot of different reasons; his boss lost pretty majorly (although Crom 'drew' with the Grim-meister in battle, so maybe Crom felt that his boss wasn't tough enough for him to subvert to); Storm of Chaos effectively ended, and that rendered Crom's purpose from the major WHFB storyline; but maybe we will get Crom back.

sj

[ROCKY]

Originally Posted by MF3000

re: kramplarv - so, why is crom bring?

lol ...sorry that just made me crack up. Ah hem, but I do mean it as a joke, Engrish is not my first language so I shouldn't be making jokes like that lol.

I like where you're going with the argument though... Crom was a 'character' but he's not very 'special' is he? But maybe that's the charm of ol' Crom. Unlike the four prophetic leaders in the Storm of Chaos campaign, Crom was what he intended to be - second in command to Archaon. For me, I think that makes him a very neat and concise character, as the 'yes sir' type leader going all out for his boss, Archaon. Think of him as a literary character-type, a foil, for the Archaon as well as the 'Four' - Harrgoth, Feytor, Styrkaar, and Melekh. I think you can forgive Crom for being slightly un-special as a character in that light. He is what he is, and I don't really expect his stats to change to reflect a 'cooler Crom'.

Azhag died. Grimgor didn't - Azhag is certainly one of the more different style of orc warlords, thanks to the magical crown, but ... if thieving stuff is orcy, surely being the biggest and the baddest black orc is a definite characteristic to being green and mean. But like you said, maybe the appeal of Azhag is that he is seemingly un-orcy (although I do not think so, his thieving attitude is so orcy; thievery is one of the many great reasons why orcs are prone to animosity tests).

As far as I know Crom may have been dropped for a lot of different reasons; his boss lost pretty majorly (although Crom 'drew' with the Grim-meister in battle, so maybe Crom felt that his boss wasn't tough enough for him to subvert to); Storm of Chaos effectively ended, and that rendered Crom's purpose from the major WHFB storyline; but maybe we will get Crom back.

sj

lol ...sorry that just made me crack up. Ah hem, but I do mean it as a joke, Engrish is not my first language so I shouldn't be making jokes like that lol.

I like where you're going with the argument though... Crom was a 'character' but he's not very 'special' is he? But maybe that's the charm of ol' Crom. Unlike the four prophetic leaders in the Storm of Chaos campaign, Crom was what he intended to be - second in command to Archaon. For me, I think that makes him a very neat and concise character, as the 'yes sir' type leader going all out for his boss, Archaon. Think of him as a literary character-type, a foil, for the Archaon as well as the 'Four' - Harrgoth, Feytor, Styrkaar, and Melekh. I think you can forgive Crom for being slightly un-special as a character in that light. He is what he is, and I don't really expect his stats to change to reflect a 'cooler Crom'.

I agree, however there was no way that crom was second in command. he was archaon's "herald". as so pointed out by gw. kordel, who was far stronger than crom, was also only positioned to army battle standard bearer. I doubt archaon had any "second in commands" because its hard to find someone who could match his power.

dont forget he had many powerful generals, including, big bad 4, belakhor (technically lol), crom, kordel, and that renegade arch lector or theologist or whatever (i forgot his name but archaon defeated him and he converted to chaos).

[MF3000]

Ah you're right! I misplaced the term 'second in command' for 'herald' ... doh!

Apologies.

I've always liked Crom, he's such a cool little fellow, just out there hacking his enemy with his ax and bashing people's heads in with his shield. What else do you expect out of a Chaos warlord?

This isn't to say I like a deeper character 'complex'. This is best shown with the Four. They all have their own tragedies to show, and where as there Herald of Chaos Undivided, senhor Crom, gives off this vibe of "screw it, I'm going with Chaos and bash some heads in"; the former quartet have a story to tell, and I know that with at least Feytor he lost faith in Sigmar and the non-Chaos gods, because... well the Men that he lived were atrocious to him and his family during the 'mysterious plague'. Tzeentch as usual has its mystical and political intrigue, family killings and even the son takes over the father in the Storm of Chaos campaign (Archaon oven-bakes that turkey-devil man for being 'too slow' - geez, there's a character flaw if you ever want one). I don't remember much about the Khorne and Slaanesh heralds though... forget what their stories were.

But Crom doesn't need it because he is the atypical Undivided warrior, he likes Chaos for what it is, a sense of freedom for the selfish (and crazy) individual who wants to live big, and kill in the way... even his name is *******' awesome. Crom. Crom Crom Crom. Nom nom nom. It's just brute without going ridiculously orcish (orcdiculous?) like Grimgor Ironhide, Azhag the Slaughter, Uglub ... Ugluk... it's just Crom. Like, the sound of a shield squelching a soldier's face into the dirt.

He is what he is...

sj

[C-Coen]

He wasn't too special in terms of fluff. He wasn't too special in terms of rules. And that last thing, that's why I thought he was pretty interesting. He was a Lord special character without magic items. Pretty special, in a certain way.
Anyway, he's better off as a vampire now. I'm sure he is.

[kramplarv]

When an SC brings very little in game terms, than just another example of one-dimensional fighting power, they tend to not be used since they are seldom point effective.

compare the value of using Crom/grimgor to a standard lord of their army. Grimgor is hard as nail in closecombat, but he must have a black orc unit with him. so he adds grimgor+10black orcs+1 special slot to field. And he is on foot...

Crom; a chaos lord on foot, with nothing special except a challenge special rule. combine with he may give his marauders in the army mark of chaos undivided... well, this does not justfify his use in a HoC/BoC-army at the time being... Since it excludes dragons etc and most of the time marauders were used as cannon fodder. His challenge rule.. rather cool, but most of the time unused.

All in all, the benefits of having crom is nowhere worth the extra pöoint he costs compared to a generic chaos lord.

most of the characters in the game that does nothing major to change the gameplay of an army tends to be unused. Combine unused characters with two-dimensional hack 'n slash fluff and we have a perfect recipe for why I think crom is gone.

[Sideros Peltarion]

Originally Posted by kramplarv

When an SC brings very little in game terms, than just another example of one-dimensional fighting power, they tend to not be used since they are seldom point effective.

compare the value of using Crom/grimgor to a standard lord of their army. Grimgor is hard as nail in closecombat, but he must have a black orc unit with him. so he adds grimgor+10black orcs+1 special slot to field. And he is on foot...

Crom; a chaos lord on foot, with nothing special except a challenge special rule. combine with he may give his marauders in the army mark of chaos undivided... well, this does not justfify his use in a HoC/BoC-army at the time being... Since it excludes dragons etc and most of the time marauders were used as cannon fodder. His challenge rule.. rather cool, but most of the time unused.

All in all, the benefits of having crom is nowhere worth the extra pöoint he costs compared to a generic chaos lord.

most of the characters in the game that does nothing major to change the gameplay of an army tends to be unused. Combine unused characters with two-dimensional hack 'n slash fluff and we have a perfect recipe for why I think crom is gone.

You are aware he was only about 11 points more than a generic lord giving him +1 WS Undivided Marauders and the challenge rule. Pretty good to me. Especially as the magic shield which had the same effect cost 50/75 points (can't remember which)

[ROCKY]

Originally Posted by Sideros Peltarion

You are aware he was only about 11 points more than a generic lord giving him +1 WS Undivided Marauders and the challenge rule. Pretty good to me. Especially as the magic shield which had the same effect cost 50/75 points (can't remember which)

You must be speaking about the chaos rune shield (50points)

[Sideros Peltarion]

Originally Posted by ROCKY

You must be speaking about the chaos rune shield (50points)

That was it. And although it only works in challenges it is a lot cheaper and has the option of using the 2 weapon special attack

[kramplarv]

and having the general on foot... in an army that many units had low leadership, or were rather fast moving. such as knights. No, as a general he does not provide what is needed.

no access to S7, limited hittingpower and/or speed. and the leadership buff.

[Sideros Peltarion]

Originally Posted by kramplarv

and having the general on foot... in an army that many units had low leadership, or were rather fast moving. such as knights. No, as a general he does not provide what is needed.

no access to S7, limited hittingpower and/or speed. and the leadership buff.

Yes but the fast moving units (except Marauder Horsemen) needed his leadership less than the Warrior and Marauder units so having him on foot was not a bad thing.
He may have had less hitting power than some uber special characters, but where he was good was in reducing their hitting power. Garl Maraz? Its just a warhammer. Fighting a unit champ? Get +5 overkill. You saying that isn't worth 11 points?

[Desert Rain]

One of the things that made me like Crom was, as mentioned by others, that he didn't have all the shiny stuff and rules that all the other special characters had. He just had his ordinary weapons and a special rule that made them useful. He was a powerful warrior with his mundane stuff, not suffering from the Christmas effect that most other special characters do. And he could take on them with just ordinary weapons and that made him really cool in my opinion.

[daa6]

I'm with you Desert Rain.....


He was everything you want from a Lord.... Rock Hard in a challange "just plain GOOD" without the shiny stuff.

and an insparation to the "normal" warriors...

That is what made him so good. Because he was just that, GOOD. no tricks or special equipment, like Archon.... or even Grimnor for that reason ... !

and he did loose to Archon, BUT that was after cutting down over half his Chosen BodyGuard.... than rushing in, after the insult of Archon not fighting him straight away.... (not worthy view)...

Then his dream came true and he "appologised" the led his army, (or rather made half of it)

I Hope he's not deleted or forgotten. and as Great a Vamp as he could make with his natrual skill alone, without the Vamp boost, i hope he don't.

Although his place has been hijacked by some random dood with a flying boat..... ?

and my last point, i think he was distracting Grimnor, to stop him encourageing his waaagh, and to stop their momentom.....

And Grimnor is at least in the O&G Book.....

[daa6]

And again he does fit a role, as would Crom "especially" with the new challange bonus system !!!! he would ROCK!

[Cain-asmodeus]

[quote=Count Demandred;3060456]

Now that would be a twist and a half.

And a mighty sweet one too, got knows we could do with some extra Special Characters, I mean four of them are set at the time of Vlad (Vlad, Isabella, Mannfred the Acolyte and Konrad). The only topical one is obviously Mannfred in his powerful form. (They could just damn well re-introduce Zacharias for a start!)



May I also suggest two more special characters, Valnir the Reaper, and Count Mordrek the Damned. last seen in the old 5th or 4th editon of champions of chaos.

Valnir Is undead, returned to reap for father nurgle again, with his gatherer of souls, as he reaps he gets stronger and more deadly. He spreads plagues wherever he goes, and easily regenrates even from death.

Count Mordrek, the original Forsaken lord, his story resembles a chaos spawn / immortal champion that never dies, its curious to me if he was a vampire corrupted and damned by the chaos gods

[Cain-asmodeus]

I can imagine when he led his army to slyvania, i could imagine him fight so much that he became a Deamon Prince

Crom the Deamon King

[redshylock]

Originally Posted by MF3000

Archaon oven-bakes that turkey-devil man for being 'too slow'
sj

Now Archaon would have to think twice executing the turkey man when he got the gateway spell.

Anyway Crom is pretty much the same stereotype Chaos character like Archaon, a tough guy who don't talk much but good at killing stuff.

Crom is like Dieter Helsnicht, nothing special fluff or rule wise and he is made a SC only because he has his own model.

[Cain-asmodeus]

Im wondering, if Crom became a Deamon prince while fighting the undead, would you think he could be a Demon King?

He simply is unmatched without magic items, and if he ascended, i doubt anyone could challenge him from being King of Deamons?

[SonofBaharlu]

Originally Posted by RobC

Robert E Howard's been dead for 72 years. In some jurisdictions, his work is now out of copyright, and I'm doubtful his estate is going to sue over something that could be argued as 'homage'.

Incorrect. His estate holds all copyright to Conan and his works. Countless authors/comic books have to seek premission to use Conan/Conan's world.