Empire army book rumours

[Sylass]

Empire army book rumours

- Released first (according to Namarie) or second (according to 75hastings69) quarter 2007

- Written by Graham McNeill (Games Day Atlanta 06)

- Expect more religious iconography

- Army deal expected in December 2006.


UPDATE: The studio guy said that the empire will have elements like the 'League of extraordinary gentlemen' - guns hidden in walking sticks etc. Also the engineers can mount a "hunter killer missile" on other warmachines for a st8 one off shot. I got the impression that the empire book will incorporate multi themed lists such as engineer themed etc etc. These are only rumours though.


New models
- New plastic regiment that will let you create Spearmen / Halberdiers and/or Swordsmen. Nicely detailed and not over the top. 10 models per set.

- New plastic regiment set that will let you build Handgunners or Crossbowmen. 10 models per set.

- More add-ons to the plastic knights set (hammers, wolf pelts, panther cloaks, alternate helmets etc.) (provided by 75hastings69)

- Plastic kit that allows you to make 6 Pistoliers or Outriders. Lots of little extras and a new unbarded horse.

- New Kurt Helborg (metal mounted model)

- New Ludwig Schwarzhelm (metal mounted model)

- Either a plastic Flagellant regiment set or a handful of extra metal Flagellants

- New rocket-type war machine (probably metal)



Shown below are some concept models by Felix Panigua. The new Empire plastics may or may not look like these, though these will NOT be cast up for production.

[Avian]

Army special rules and composition
No concrete news. There has been mumblings about the Detachment rule being altered / dropped, but nothing concrete.


- Detachments
Still in the book, though may have changed slightly (source: Haquim)

[Avian]

Characters

- Empire General (new name for Elector Count)
There will be a plastic character kit, with loads of equipment options, including a finely detailed horse. Presumably makes one mounted character and one on foot, like the Orc one.


- Arch Lector
125 pts. More or less like the WD version (UK WD 304)
UPDATE: Apparently hates everyone. Prayers are supposedly better. (source: Haquim)
May ride a War Altar (source: Shoggoth)
There are now 5 different prayers. (source: Avian)

- Wizard Lord
No news.


- Knightly Grand Master
UPDATE: Apparently requires a unit of knights of the same order (source: 75hastings69)



- Captain
No news.


- Wizards
New Bright wizard on foot model. Hair looks like it's on fire.
UPDATE: This is apparently the special edition model you get in the new army box.


- Warrior Priests
New models.
UPDATE: Prayers are supposedly better and units led by a priest supposedly Hate everyone (source: Haquim)
UPDATE: Will indeed make the unit hate everyone. There are five different prayers and they have a power level of 4. (source: Avian) Taking Priests lets you take some Flagellant units as Core, either only one unit regardless of the number of Priests you have (source: Avian) or one unit per Priest you have (source: VooDooChilly)


- Master Engineer
New model on clockwork horse with longrifle. Also the Engineers can mount a "hunter killer missile" on other warmachines for a st8 one off shot.
UPDATE: The Clockwork Horse is an upgrade for an Engineer. It causes D3 impact hits when charging, adds +1 to the rider's armour save and has Movement 8
UPDATE: Pidgeon Bombs have missile weapons with a rather low Strength and do fire damage (source: Shoggoth)
UPDATE: The Clockwork horse is a mechanical creation animated by a Wizard from the Gold college, i.e. it is more like a golem than a robot. Gives the rider a 2+ armour save.
UPDATE: Apparently go up in cost and cannot take magic items. In addition to the old options he get the Clockwork Horse and Pigeon Bombs mentioned above and the Grenade-launching Blunderbuss. (source: Avian)
Pigeon Bombs inflict a number of hits determined by rolling an Artillery dice - roll a Misfire and it was a homing pigeon! (source: VooDooChilly)

[Avian]

Special characters
Apparently the Lord-level characters take up a single Lord choice each, while the Hero-level ones (such as Luthor Huss), take up a single Hero choice.


- Emperor Karl Franz
Confirmed by Gav Thorpe to be in the army book (source: unheilig)
UPDATE: May ride a barded warhorse, Imperial Pegasus, Griffon or the Imperial Zoo Dragon (source: 75hastings69)


- Kurt Helborg, the Reiksmarshal
New model.


- Ludwig Swarzhelm
New model.


- Volkmar the Grimm
UPDATE: Still has his War Altar (source: 75hastings69)
UPDATE: Is Frenzied! (source: Avian) Will apparently not get a new model.


- Balthasar Gelt
Will probably not get a new model.


- Luthor Huss
Will probably not get a new model.

[Avian]

Core units

- Halberdiers
Will supposedly be created from new State troops regiment set.
Still limited to light armour.
UPDATE: Cheaper(?) (source: Haquim)
There was a rumour, originating from the new Rulebook, that Halberdiers would have the same stats as Swordsmen, but that seems to be a typo in the rulebook.
UPDATE: One point cheaper. (source: FallenScholar)


- Swordsmen
Will supposedly be created from new State troops regiment set.
UPDATE: Cheaper(?) (source: Haquim)
UPDATE: One point cheaper. (source: FallenScholar)


- Spearmen
Will supposedly be created from new State troops regiment set.
UPDATE: Spearmen models have been spotted
UPDATE: Cheaper(?) (source: Haquim)
UPDATE: One point cheaper. (source: FallenScholar)


- Handgunners
Model of Marksman kneeling while priest blesses his longrifle has been spotted.
Expect new plastic set.


- Free Companies / Archers / Crossbowmen
May receive a new plastic set.
UPDATE: May swap their two hand weapons for a great weapon (source: Shoggoth)


- Knights
Expect some more add-ons to the plastic knights set (hammers, wolf pelts, panther cloaks, alternate helmets etc.) (provided by 75hastings69)
UPDATE: New plastic horses are amazing. Easily as big as bretonnian ones
UPDATE: There are supposedly a selection of different Orders you can upgrade them to, though no details on how this works.
Knights of the White Wolf: Now have regular Great weapons instead of cavalry hammers.
Knights of Morr: Unknown.
Two or three other orders...(source: Shoggoth)
UPDATE: Orders are represented by Magic Standards and not by options for the unit as such. Same cost as before, any unit can have great weapons instead of lance (and shield?). Upgrade to Inner Circle makes the unit a Special choice. (source: VooDooChilly, Harry)

[Avian]

Special units

- Great cannon
No news.


- Mortar
No news.


- Greatswords
UPDATE: Not 0-1, but still special. (source: Shoggoth) Possibly cheaper.


- Pistoliers
Role drastically altered with new pistol rules in 7th edition. Now more of a harassment unit.
UPDATE: Can be upgraded to Outriders, who have Repeater Handguns (now move-or-fire).
Outrider Marksman can get a grenade launcher for a single S6 shot once per battle. Move-or-fire.
UPDATE: Apparently still have the Fusilade rule, though it is not certain what it does, possibly it just lets the model fight with an additional hand weapon in close combat. (source: Shoggoth)
UPDATE: Picture of the new models seem to show a musician with a horn.


- Outriders
Made from same plastic set as Pistoliers. Carry Repeater Handguns (possibly also Repeater Pistols). Not certain whether they are a separate entry in the army book or just an upgrade option for Pistoliers.
UPDATE: Fast cavalry unless they take the option for barding (option apparently added because the old version of the minis had barding - the new plastic kit might thus not come with bitz to make barded horses). Supposedly the designers have been working on a way to give them less penalties when shooting. (source: VooDooChilly) Sources do not agree on whether or not the Outriders can move and fire.

[Avian]

Rare units

- Hellblaster
UPDATE: Apparently needs to roll to hit (unknown at which BS), but is Strength 5 even at long range. Cheaper. (source: Shoggoth)
UPDATE: Rolls three artillery dice for the number of shots. Then rolls to hit using the crew's BS of 3, getting normal penalties. Strength 5, armour piercing at any range. Misfire chart is less nasty than before. (source: Avian)


- Flagellants
UPDATE: Go up in WS, but down in T. Still Unbreakable and 0-1, but if you take a Priest in your army they are a Core choice (still 0-1). Has a "Holy hatred" special rule where they can gain more Attacks, but the unit then takes D6 S5(?) hits. (source: Shoggoth)
UPDATE: May be joined by characters. Not 0-1. If you have one or more Warrior Priests in the army, you may take a single unit of Flagellants as Core. Note that you may only ever have 1 Core unit of Flagellants, no matter how many Priests you have (not all sources agree on this). Their special Martyr ability lets you sacrifice one or more Flagellants at the start of a combat phase. You decide to kill some and then you roll a D3 to see how many that is. If you roll a 1, one Flagellant dies and you get ability #1 below. If you roll a 2, two Flagellants die and you get abilities 1 & 2. If you roll a 3, three Flagellants die and you get all three abilities.
1: Hatred of everybody
2: Re-roll failed to wound rolls
3: Gain +1 to your CR. (source: Avian, FallenScholar)
Initial rumours said that there would be a few extra metal Flagellant models, but more recent rumours suggests plastic Flagellant models (source: Harry)


- Rocket Battery [actual name not known]
Somewhat similar to a Volley Gun
UPDATE: Apparently works much like a Stone Thrower, but you roll the Artillery dice twice to see how far it scatters. Possibly it bounces along the ground as it scatters??? (source: Shoggoth)
UPDATE: Apparently similar to a mortar, but scatters two artillery dice instead of just one and is Strength 5 (with the large template). (source: FallenScholar)


- Steam Tank
Vague rumour stating that the rules are in the book and drastically shortened, indicating that the Tank may now work more like a normal unit. There have been rumours about a plastic steam tank.
UPDATE: Now more similar to a chariot, yet with steam points.
UPDATE: Stats are apparently as follows:
M: Special, WS: -, BS: -, S: 6, T: 6, W: 10, A. Special
Large target, Terror, Unbreakable, US 10 (source: Harry)
Apparently not auto-destroyed if wounded by a S7+ hit (source: Shoggoth) and with a very good armour save (source: Haquim)
UPDATE: Apparently has a 1+ armour save. (source: FallenScholar)

[Sylass]

Another new rumour from 75hastings69:

Quote

"Empire should be seeing a new unit called outriders (I think they used to be in a previous version) they are similar to pistolliers but carry a multi barelled gun. Rumour has it there will be a plastic box set that will allow you to make either unit."

Sounds pretty cool, no?

[Avian]

A little rumour from GD Chicago:

Originally Posted by unheilig

i was there.

we spent quite a bit of time chatting up gav, and reading through the new rulebook.

<snip>

Empire: no pikemen. but the renaissance look stays, just dirtied up a bit. Karl Franz will be in the empire book.

[Sylass]

Hi,

I just received a few more rumours about the upcoming Empire armybook...

• Lots of upgrades for engineers
• Outriders are rumoured to be back
• Steam Tank is rumoured to be more like a chariot now.
• Hellblaster rules are rumoured to change
• there's a rumour about a new warmachine

I'll try to find out more about all this at the german GD on Sunday.

[Avian]

Okay, by reading Graham McNeill's brain using a lump of quartz, a lead pendulum and a psychic squirrel I have gained this insight into the new Empire book:


The Clockwork horse is an upgrade for Engineers, it causes D3 impact hits when charging, adds +2 to the rider's armour save and has Movement 8.

A new weapon is a grenade launcher for the Marksman in an Outrider unit. It is S6, move-or-fire and 1 shot only.

Repeater handguns are move or fire now.

Repeater pistols can all be upgraded.

Outriders or pistoliers are made from the same box of 5 plastic models. Loads of extras. The horses are amazing, unbarded and rather big.

The Empire Soliders kit looks amazing with very discreet pennants etc. Very realistic not over the top. Looks amazing!

The new plastic general is fantastic, mostly the barded horse detail blew me away. That and all the weapon options.

The Elector Count option is now called Empire General.

Arch Lectors are in the book and I think 125 pts

All other characters remain pretty much the same.

Most troops stay same except a few more options. Halberdiers still only have light armour but can take shields, I think.

Outriders are a Pistolier upgrade.

The Steam Tank is there. The rules are simplified, though it still uses steam points.

New rocket war machine fires multi rockets somewhat like a Volley gun.

Special characters are
Kurt Helborg
Ludwig Schwarzhelm
Volkmar
Karl franz
Balthasar Gelt
Luthor Huss

Empire pay 5 points less for common magic items.

New Empire Dragon!

[Avian]

And something that might be the Empire army book cover artwork:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/downloa...5-1024x768.jpg

[Avian]

Various rumours from Harry:

Originally Posted by Harry

Yes, you heard it here first...Empire engineers are allowed pigeon bombs as an upgrade.

Originally Posted by Harry

Steam tank is in new rule book.

<snip>

It is greatly simplified and works much like a chariot......
Except it is armour plated (special rule), It has WS [sure you don't mean Toughness? - Avian] 8 and 10 wounds.

<snip>

It has no variaitions in the rule book so if you have bought your mortar version or your engineers platform you still cant use it...I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Harry

The new battle standard bearer is the nuts. No flag/banner instead a figure of death, sythe and all, with all kinds of penants and other less wholesome stuff hanging from it...on a stick!
I am assuming that this will be the limited edition in the army release but i am assuming this because i am assuming there will be a plastic character kit for Empire as there is for orcs which can be made as both general and battle standard....If not looks like Ill be forking out for the army deal.

Originally Posted by Harry

The new plastics for the empire state troops are really good. The halberds are much chunkier your not going to knock the ends off every time they go in your figure case anymore. But thats not it...its that the figures are just so much more dynamic. They look like they are fighting not marching. My favorite are the components which make them into swordsmen...arms raised thrusting from behind their shields. The shields were also interesting not soo big as before but bigger than a buckler ...somewhere in between with imbossed detail. Also whilst there are lots of bits to add on the figures themselves are not to overdone with the icons as was feared..I don't think you will be disappointed.

Oh...and the new plastic horses...both barded (again with imbossed detail on the barding) and non barded both big and chunky and looking like horses built for war......wow....But have I got alot of horses to replace.

[Avian]

More Empire news (thanks to my hunchbacked servant and a handy thunderstorm I managed to resurrect my psychic squirrel. It was last seen on the road down to the village, drooling disturbingly).


Detatchments are still in the army book, despite rumours to the contrary. Rejoyce!
(note that I don't know how much the rules have changed, if at all)


Pigeon Bombs are indeed in the book and not particularly powerful. Think of them more as a fun addition.

Clockwork Horses give the rider a 2+ armour save, not +2 as stated previously. There will be at least two new Engineer models, with various equipment.

Pisoliers can be upgraded to Outriders, who all have either Repeater Pistols or Repeater Handguns (as in 5th edition).
The pistoliers themselves are cool. They have plate armour but it's light plate looking, mainly leggings. They have heavy dust coats which make them look cowboyish but they have empire-style helmets.
The greanade launcher is like a bucket with a spiked ball loaded on the end of a pistol. The leader also has a pistol-sword type weapon which counts as a handweapon. They look very historical actually and extremely cool. They are in full gallop and the repeater guns and all the weaponry looks more refined and neat.
They may have had the option for barding.

The Dragon is a specific dragon, from the Imperial Zoo, and severaly limited in when you can take it.

The Empire General plastic kit includes options for a Battle Standard with several options, including the Morr one described by Harry. Armour looks very historically correct.

All of the new Empire units look like they would hurt anything they charged. Kurt Helborg especially is in full gallop with the Runefang now as big as a greatsword held forward - screaming his charge like the pic in the old army book. The new minis all have action poses instead of the "stately trot" of the older models.

Volkmar still has his War Altar.

The Steam Tank now works like a mix of the 5th and the 6th edition rule sets.

All the history for orcs and the Empire in new books is set after the Storm of Chaos.

[Sylass]

Empire army book preorder/release date:

Originally Posted by 75hastings69

Empire Army Box available to preorder 5th November, release date 16th December.

[Avian]

A selection of rumours I now have the time to update:

Originally Posted by Harry

A few weeks ago now I started a thread, amongst other Empire threads, about the steam tank.

It would seem much has changed...since the very early look of the steam tank rules...and as a result my post and as a result your round up is inaccurate. It has never been my intention to mislead anyone but there is always a risk of things changing before they are finalised. (if you post it very early)

With this in mind...... The Steam Tank is a follows....
M and A 'special', NO WS/BS (Not 10 or 8 as stated in my earlier post) S 6, T 6 W 10 It has the special Rules...Large Target,Unbreakable and Terror and it has a Unit strength of 10. (No 'Armour plated' special rule as stated in my earlier post.)

Originally Posted by Shoggoth

@NakedFisherman 2:fusillade works when shooting,not in charge..About magic items(if i remember)
Sword of Marbad?no
Rod of command?yes
Casket?No

@sureshot05:the eng.cannot be fielded with hellblaster or the new rocket launcher.
sTeampoints are gone...well,at least as we know them
Karl Frantz could ride a Dragon...only Karl

@Ganymed:speculum it's there
and yes..what do you hear about prayers it's correct
No weapon changes
No trace of kislev in the new armybook for the Empire,sorry

Originally Posted by Shoggoth

some answers two,the revenge

@ogre3:ther're four knithg orders,if i remeber(i've to improve my mnemonic abilities)
yes,ther's the Achlector as Lord type hero
yes:your list of heroes it's correct
No,the stank will not be crushed by a single St7 hit like chariots
in HtH multibarreled pistols work like hand weapon and are "move and fire",multiple shot x2
Pidgeons are an equipment for eng.,low stregth fire weapon (sort of)
The zoo actually doesn't give the army anything rules wise (except for the karl's dragon)
Your wondering about core,special and rare units it's good...but remeber thisutriders are just an upgrade of pistoliers (which are a special unit,you've missed them in your list)

@kedlav:free comp. are not changed in cost (but could have great weapons)

@Dragonsbane:no teutogen guard it's NOT in the list
the WW knights have wolf hammer which grants a +1St bonus in every round of combat,they don't cost less
Flagellants if you take a priest become core unit and so i think they will be useful
Greatsword are not 0-1,but theri cost seems to me unchanged

@Ultimate Nagash:yes,morr's knights will be there

Originally Posted by Shoggoth

Some answers:

@jedi152:no,there's no "witch hunter" hero in the army list..i was also looking after it but anything in the book

@Grontik:don't expect a large amount of points reduction for infantries..but expect cavalries being more expensive.

@nakedfisherman:yes..something like queen bess..but you don't throw only the artillery dice but also the deviation one (no straight line).
Detachments stay as now
and yes handgunners still have the +d6 for the first shot.
Yes,all warrior priest hate everyone.
the "mark" or the "order" to be more precise give them special rules
yes,balthasar it's in the new book
Fusillade:repeating pistols or handguns have multiple shot rule but cannot move and fire
Outriders are like an upgrade for pistoliers.Pistoliers don't have the great imperial armour so even the outriders don't wear it.

@Baindread:magic item...there are a lot a magic items...common items other than dispell scrolls and the enchanted shield cost a little less than now.Some items will be very interesting to use on the battlefield.

@captain Cortez:mortars are like now
No runefangs if i remeber correctly
No,hochland rules aren't changed
Indeed it'0s very true that empire eng. could have bomb pidgeons not very devastating but funny

@gorenut: pistoliers are still special unit

Originally Posted by Haquim

As I said before I'm pretty sure I know some of the new Empire book's changes.

-Cheaper infantry, it seems confirmed they dropped the cost of infantry units. Alberdiers still not very useful though (have got options for shields anyway)

-Detachements stay.

-Knights still core and with 1+Armor save, if you want inner circle you have to use special slots. And White Wolves are now armed with simple great weapons.

-Flagellants with "human" stats yet improved thanks to special rules.

-Archlectors much better with new prayers and special rules (hate everyone... )

-Steamthank with Th of a Dragon and a VERY low Armour Save...

These are the things I learned from a reliable source (cannot really enter in detail, for example how the flagellants get power ups, or what can an Archlector do... Let's only say the new rules are very inspiring)

Originally Posted by Shoggoth

hellbalster will have to hit for every single bullet,no more automatic hits.like leadbelchers.but with St5 even at long range..and will cost "3 orcs" less than now



Empire will be out in mid december 2006,big box and armybook...miniatures boxes will start to come out in january 2007..orcs will not get a so larga amount of new miniatures,so you could start right now to take orcs and goblin..so i think you could finish and orcy army and then goi for an Empire one

Originally Posted by Shoggoth

think about the rocket as a bretonnian field trebuchet with bounce like a cannon(so you'll get to roll two times the artillery dice and the deviation one)

good question!Flagellants have changed a lot!The point they lose from T the gain for WS.Still unbreakable,if a priest it's in the army they become core unit,still 0-1 btw.Then comes the new rule:like skaven monks with banner of burnign hatred they could gain more attacks per model but for this "holy hatred" they take a d6 hits St5,if i remember correctly

[Avian]

Found by Friendly Neighbour, here is a picture of the new Empire army deal. This is available to preorder on 4th November for 16th December (source: 75hastings69)


Contents seem to be:

- Empire General on horse + Battle standard (2 figure plastic commander box similar to the Orc one)
- Battle Wizard on foot (almost certainly metal)
- 12 Knights (seem to be the old models, but there may be a new acessory and great weapon sprue in there)
- 20 State troops fighters (assembled as spearmen in the picture, a new plastic box)
- 2x 10 State troop missile units assembled as one unit of handgunners and one unit as crossbowmen (new box, though the number of models in it is unknown, possibly it is 16 and the army box has an extra sprue chucked in)
- 20 Free Companies (seems to be the old box, or at least not very different)
- 2x 5 Pistoliers / Outriders (supposedly made from a new set with 5 models per box)
- 1 Cannon / Mortar set (seems to be old box)

In addition it will include the army book.

[Sylass]

Thanks to Grimtuff for a picture of Kurt Hellborg. The picture was taken at the GD UK yesterday.

Enjoy.


*edit*
Thanks to DjtHeutii and warhammer.org.uk for 2 additional photos of the miniature (one is a greenstuff model).

[Avian]

More rumours from Games Day:

Originally Posted by VooDooChilly

Had a good 1hr long chat with Anthony Reynolds at GD and bled him dry for as much info as possible, here's what he said and I what I can remember...

• Archlector can ride war altar
• Clockwork horse is 100% mechanical
• Clockwork horse DOES NOT cause impact hits but give a bonus to the save not as much as 2+
• Clcokwork horse has some kind of ability that enables the engineer to fire through it enhancing his accuracy
• Prayers are now 4+ but better, still cast in magic phase
• Engineers can join hellblaster and rocket launcher
• Knights are the same no special rules for different orders but each order has acces to different magic banners
• Knight sprue is the same but they are planning to relase a new one next year which has new horses and different orders bits
• Greatswords stay the same
• Pistoliers are more of a harrasment unit
• Outriders are move and fire
• They are working a way out for Outrides so they wont have too many minuses when shooting
• Outriders are Special and the plastic box of 5 can be either Pistoliers or Outriders
• Cannon and Mortar stay the same
• Steam tanks has a 2+ armour save "lots" of wounds and is toughness 6 still uses steam points to move
• Flaggelants can immolate themselves to make them frenzy and othe bonuses
• They are going to release rules later for the different variants of Steam Tank
• Hellblaster stays the same (yep, still autohits)
• New plastic kit that can be made into a Hellblaster or Rocket Launcher
• Runefang is still in, but lots of "really good" new magic items
• Griffon banner up to 55pts
• No new sculpt for Volkmar or the war altar
• Detachments stay the same but easier to read rules
• Steam Tank rules now fit on 2 pages only
• Grenade launcher for pistolier/outrider champion looks like a big fat blunderbuss
• Pigeon bombs are a ranged weapon that uses the artillery dice to work out how many hit, misfire and its a homing pigeon
• No new sculpt for Karl Franz but maybe in the future
• Karl Franz can choose to ride the dragon(normal variety) or deathclaw
• No new wizard models (apart from the fire one) but maybe a plastic wizard box with differnt bits on in the future.
• Lots of fluff in the book

And here's a picture of the new army book cover

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6...2006026jd9.jpg

Sorry bout the lack of full stops had to get it written out before I forgot it all

*edit by Sylass*
attached the cover picture...

[Avian]

More sneek pics from the GW US website.

The pictures are, in order:

- Plastic commander set
- Army book cover art
- Crossbowman concept sketch
- Handgunner concept sketch
- Reiksmarshal Kurt Helborg (2 pics)