Tournament Death Guard 1500

[Deus Mechanicus]

Hey yall this is a list im thinking of running in a Tournament coming up in may

Daemon Prince 175 pts
- Wings
- Mark of Nurgle
- Warptime

Typhus 225 pts
goes with
5x Chaos Terminators 230 pts
- 4x Combi-Weapons (Which one to choose)?
- 1x Heavy Flamer & Chainfist
- Icon of Nurgle

7x Plague Marines 276 pts
- Champion /w Combi-Plasma & Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

7x Plague Marines 276 pts
- Champion /w Combi-Plasma & Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

1x Obliterator 75 pts

1x Obliterator 75 pts

Chaos Vindicator 160 pts
- Daemonic Possession
- Havoc Launcher

1492 pts

The only things i have assembled and painted so far is the Daemon Prince, a rhino, one squad Plague Marines and 2 obliterators. The rest i will get when im satisfied with the list so most things are replaceable.

Any tips comments and suggestions are welcome :-)

[Sanctjud]

Didn't you have a 1750 list posted?
Why not just edit that one, and post another post or something...?

Anyway, almost the same comments:

Dp is good, but warp time is really only good if you really want it, generally you are hitting well and wounding well already, it's utility isn't as high as you'd think, but is nice as a beat stick.

Typhus is just too expensive, with no Reliable delivery into combat. Termies are not great bodyguards, and IoN is NOT competitive as the points to model ratio is just 'that' bad.
The weapon load outs are ok.

Plague marines are ok, but again, melta's are AWESOME, combi-flamers are decent, but plasma is just 'meh' IMO on plague marines. They don't benefit from a rhino as much ast the meltas and flamers.

Oblists, again, you are heavy on kill points, consolidating them is good.
Vindi: no need for havoc launcher. Keep it nice and cheap.

My 7 Cents.

[innerwolf]

I like plasma guns on Plague Marines, I even think they are one of the best plasma users on the game. Why? Feel No Pain. The odds of suffering a Gets hot! wound per rapid firing marine are 0,056. They also compliment bolters quite well.
So you made a good decision IMHO

Overall I like your list quite a lot, but I find Typhus too expensive to be killed by a random powerfist, and I usually prefer a Defiler to a Vindicator( range issues).

[Sanctjud]

Yea, FNP is nice, but not to the risk averse. Though it's less likely, WHEN (not if) it happens, that's 38 points gone.

I prefer Defilers as well, but for different reasons (less Spiky Smurf image).

My 7 Cents.

[mysterice]

Ill give you a rundown of my opinions on the list:

[quote=Deus Mechanicus;3392906]

Daemon Prince 175 pts
- Wings
- Mark of Nurgle
- Warptime

This is fine.

Typhus 225 pts

He is weak compared to the other characters. I would consider take a terminator lord w/ power claws instead.

5x Chaos Terminators 230 pts
- 4x Combi-Weapons (Which one to choose)?
- 1x Heavy Flamer & Chainfist
- Icon of Nurgle

I would make the combi weapons, combi bolters w/ maybe one or two combi meltas. The heavy flamer is fine. The chainfist I would drop. I would consider giving the Terminator Sgt. power claws or a power weapon. Is an autocannon possible?

7x Plague Marines 276 pts
- Champion /w Combi-Plasma & Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

I would drop the combi-plasma. Otherwise they are fine.

1x Obliterator 75 pts

1x Obliterator 75 pts

I would consider making these one squad to prevent one kill point.

Chaos Vindicator 160 pts
- Daemonic Possession
- Havoc Launcher

I would drop the Havoc launcher. The rest is fine. I would take the points saved by dropping other thigs and adding another Vidicator w/ Possession and/or more Obliterators.

[Deus Mechanicus]

Originally Posted by Sanctjud

Didn't you have a 1750 list posted?
Why not just edit that one, and post another post or something...?

Aye i thought the tournament was 1750 turned out it was 1500 so i modified the other list slightly. True in hindsight i could have posted in that thread.

Anyway one squad is modelled with Plamsa Guns so the first squad is set in stone. I'll look into maybe meltas or flamers, though i feel divided about the meltas since they are not a tank hunting unit to begin with.

Typhus i might drop, he was in there to give some character to the army and i thought with T5 2+ Save, FNP, Daemon Weapon and Nurgle's Rot he would wade through infantry after being delivered with the Terminators.

I'll look into some modifications and post another list here

[FaztGitz]

What might be cool is the drop Typhus and some upgrades or something to fit a LR and put your temies in that. Get some lesser daemons also for objective like a unit of 5 or 6

[Sepharine]

Originally Posted by innerwolf

The odds of suffering a Gets hot! wound per rapid firing marine are 0,056.

Could you elaborate your math perhaps.

[innerwolf]

Of course. 2 plasma shots x 1/6= 1/3 x 2/6= 1/9 x1/2 = 1/18= 0,056

where 1/6 is rolling ones at hiting, 2/6 is failing the 3+ save and 1/2 is failing feel no pain.

[Sepharine]

The chance of suffering 1 get hot result when firing twice is 10/36
After which 2/6 and 1/2 is correct. (.0463)
The chance of suffering 2 get hot results when firing twice is 1/36,
And the chance of suffering ATLEAST 1 wound out of that is
1/3*1/3*1/2*1/2 (suffering 2 wounds) +
1/3*1/3*1/2*1/2 (suffering only 1 wound because of feel no pain) +
1/3*1/3*1/2*1/2 (suffering only 1 wound because of feel no pain) +
1/3*2/3*1/2(suffering only 1 wound because of armor)+
2/3*1/3*1/2(suffering only 1 wound because of armor)=.30556 * 1/36 = .00849

Total chance of a plaguemarine dying =.0463+.00849 = .05478
Ye ye its nitpicky but its one of those things, this look correct? been a while since I math'd it up

[sun tzu]

The 2 single Obliterators are easy kill points, might be worth putting them in a single squad.

I would drop Typhus, he is a waste of points at this points level, use the points to get another Vindicator and another Obliterator.

[innerwolf]

Originally Posted by Sepharine

The chance of suffering 1 get hot result when firing twice is 10/36
After which 2/6 and 1/2 is correct. (.0463)
The chance of suffering 2 get hot results when firing twice is 1/36,
And the chance of suffering ATLEAST 1 wound out of that is
1/3*1/3*1/2*1/2 (suffering 2 wounds) +
1/3*1/3*1/2*1/2 (suffering only 1 wound because of feel no pain) +
1/3*1/3*1/2*1/2 (suffering only 1 wound because of feel no pain) +
1/3*2/3*1/2(suffering only 1 wound because of armor)+
2/3*1/3*1/2(suffering only 1 wound because of armor)=.30556 * 1/36 = .00849

Total chance of a plaguemarine dying =.0463+.00849 = .05478
Ye ye its nitpicky but its one of those things, this look correct? been a while since I math'd it up

Ok, you are right. This is more accurate( even when it comes as nearly the same ^^).
I used a simplified version.

[Sanctjud]

My view on plasma guns (as a risk averse player):
If it can happen, it will.

Melta and flamers are the bread and butter, and I usually go for them, but to each their own.

@Sun Tze: I've suggested the consolidation of the Oblits a few times, but it seems ppl here just don't like that point of view, I was even addressed as 'not a competitive player'....irked me a bit.

As for the lesser daemons, it's 7+ or bust IMO. 7 gets you the next ring in terms of charging, while holding objectives need more bodies, and 7 is a fluffy number...

My 7 Cents.

[sun tzu]

Originally Posted by Sanctjud

@Sun Tzu: I've suggested the consolidation of the Oblits a few times, but it seems ppl here just don't like that point of view, I was even addressed as 'not a competitive player'....irked me a bit.

As for the lesser daemons, it's 7+ or bust IMO. 7 gets you the next ring in terms of charging, while holding objectives need more bodies, and 7 is a fluffy number...

My 7 Cents.

Well from my view point, a single Obliterator is a easy kill point.
You would think "competitive players" would write their lists in a way that would reduce the number of kill points their lists would give to their opponents, i know i do.

I like the 7 lesser daemons idea, very fluffy

[Deus Mechanicus]

Ok here's a revised list for consideration, took most of the advice (Dropped Typhus and the Vindicator. Made the oblits one choice)

Daemon Prince 175 pts
- Wings
- Mark of Nurgle
- Warptime

Chaos Sorcerer 130 pts
- Mark of Nurgle
- Doombolt

5x Chaos Terminators 210 pts
- Icon of Nurgle
- 4x Combi-Plasma

7x Plague Marines 266 pts
- Champion /w Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

7x Plague Marines 266 pts
- Champion /w Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

2x Obliterators 150 pts

Chaos Defiler 150 pts
- 2x Extra Close Combat Weapons

Chaos Defiler 150 pts
- 2x Extra Close Combat Weapons

1497 pts

watcha think?

[Deus Mechanicus]

I recently came across a Chaos Terminator Lord box and made some minor adjustments. I think that the Lord will do more use than the sorcerer (he is only 10 pts more, droppde 2 combi plasmas to compensate). Here is the revised (and hopefully final?) list

Daemon Prince 175 pts
- Wings
- Mark of Nurgle
- Warptime

Chaos Lord 140 pts
- Terminator (Twin-Linked Bolter & Power Weapon)
- Mark of Nurgle

5x Chaos Terminators 200 pts
- Icon of Nurgle
- 2x Combi-Plasma

7x Plague Marines 266 pts
- Champion /w Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

7x Plague Marines 266 pts
- Champion /w Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

2x Obliterators 150 pts

Chaos Defiler 150 pts
- 2x Extra Close Combat Weapons

Chaos Defiler 150 pts
- 2x Extra Close Combat Weapons

1497

as per usual all comments tips and suggestions are welcome

[LeonidasL]

I take it you really want that lord and termies in the list. I would have removed them to get more troops in. With only two troops and a generally small number of models, I think that you will find it difficult to grab-hold or deny objectives. After all those two units of plague marines cant be everywhere at the same time. And although they are probably the toughest base troops in the game, they still go down like flies when they are hit by heavy weapons that wound them on 2+ (like battle cannons, lascannons, plasma cannons) or ones with high ap. 14 plague boys wont survive that long you see, and from that point on you are playing for a draw not a win.
Imo I would put either some more plague marines in, or some dirt cheap demons to keep them back and hug objectives and cover all the time. In dire need, you just drop them to the ground for that extra cover save.

[Sanctjud]

In general, <1750 is hard for Chaos. IMO.
The issue about troops as LeonidasL brought up is an important issue to address.

I used 30 plague marines at the 1675 level and I still don't think it's enough.

Even focused Small arms will get through, and there's even less room to screw up at 1500 with a chaos list, assuming you are facing an opponent with a mobile list as well, and knows how to identify errors and act on them.

My 7 Cents.

[Deus Mechanicus]

Originally Posted by LeonidasL

I take it you really want that lord and termies in the list.

No not neccesarily! Just thought it would be good with some tougher troops, remade the list again. Looks like it's close to being finalized

Daemon Prince 175 pts
- Wings
- Mark of Nurgle
- Warptime

7x Plague Marines 266 pts
- Champion /w Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

7x Plague Marines 266 pts
- Champion /w Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

7x Plague Marines 266 pts
- Champion /w Power Fist
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Rhino

3x Obliterators 225 pts

Chaos Defiler 150 pts
- 2x Extra Close Combat Weapons

Chaos Defiler 150 pts
- 2x Extra Close Combat Weapons

1498 pts

Dropped the terminators and added another Plague Marine squad and a third obliterator.

How does it look now?