Blood Angels summary

[Arbedark]

Originally Posted by captain of the 1st

why are people moaning bout meph? when he first turned up he was ws8 and pwned the stats and rules of abadon

Back when he had WS8, Greater Daemons had stats that were actually better than his...

And generic heroes had stats wildly different from normal marines.

So yeah, back in 2nd he was far less impressive when compared to the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by Keldaur

Even a primarch and the emperor were mortals, so what's your point? Just whining around on caps? Fluffwise that profile makes sense, rulewise we still gotta see it because withouth invuln save he is not that hard to take down and anti-psychic abilities hurts him a lot, something which doesn't happen to Abaddon, or a wolf lord mounted up for example.

Yes, except both Primarchs and the Emperor didn't start out with a HUMAN body which was then augmented.

I'm using caps since I assume the fact that you think S6 T6 fits "fluffwise", when a Greater Daemon of Nurgle only has S6 T6, that you skim-read or fail to comprehend things unless they are big, bright and shiny.

[captain of the 1st]

Originally Posted by Arbedark

Back when he had WS8, Greater Daemons had stats that were actually better than his...

And generic heroes had stats wildly different from normal marines.

So yeah, back in 2nd he was far less impressive when compared to the rest of the game.



Yes, except both Primarchs and the Emperor didn't start out with a HUMAN body which was then augmented.

I'm using caps since I assume the fact that you think S6 T6 fits "fluffwise", when a Greater Daemon of Nurgle only has S6 T6, that you skim-read or fail to comprehend things unless they are big, bright and shiny.

but according to the fluff when you are affected by black rage you gain some of a sanguinius' power...meph has that x10. i agree he is super hard but i think he should def be up there with abadon,calgar etc

[Arkley]

All are looking nice ... Can't wait to see Seth thou...

[Worsle]

Originally Posted by Arbedark

Except for the fact that Grey Hunters may be over-hyped on the net, but their actual effectiveness is much greater than Wolf Guard.

Uber-Grit, Wolf Standard, cheaper, doesn't require an over-costed HQ to make SCORING...

Cyclones are a lot more over-hyped than Grey Hunters. And yes, you can take a Cyclone in a Grey Hunter squad, as a Wolf Guard Pack Leader. So yeah, you're the one who doesn't have a point.

Regarding Relentless, if you put Logan with a group of Long Fangs, you are pretty much using his entire cost just to give them relentless, and a bit of combat power.

You talk about regarding Logan as the complete package, yet talk about using him to give Long Fangs relentless...

Giving long fangs relentless was an example of what he can do, and something that can be used to great effect. Giving long fangs relentless one turn does not stop him from swapping to say tank hunters the next or even swapping into a different squad. Saying all he does is give relentless is stupid as he clearly is more than that.

Maybe you did not notice but you can only give one guard a cyclone if you have 5 of them? Saying you can use wolf guard to give your hunters cyclones is competently ignoring what you would have to go though to do it, ie tank your armies effectiveness. Cyclones are over hyped? Only army where fielding them makes sense is wolves because you can mix them in with other guys, shooting terminators are totally ignored in favour of th/ss assaults.

Only thing hunters have over guard is you don't need an expensive hq to take them as troops, that is it. I even made this point already. After that for a tiny increase in cost you get better stats and better equipment options. really why are we arguing this look at the guard entry and then look at what hunters get. How is this a contest if you did not have to take logan who would be taking hunters over guard? No one.

Though we are getting further and further from the point here. The point is just saying logan costs x and has x stats but mephiston costs x and has x stats is bad logic. Not only does logan bring more to the table than just his stats, these are completely different armies. You should not just compare stats and costs between armies it does not work like that. This is why so much of the great theoryhammer of the internet is so flawed, people just get so wrapped up in silly comparisons they miss the bigger picture.

edit. The Emperor is just a human though. An very powerful one but as things stand he was also just a human with no genetic alteration as far as we know (witch is not to say it did not happen).

[AmasNagol]

Back when Meph was first around, he had the stats of a Vampire Lord in Fantasy. That was 2nd Edition where the base WS for a hard CC character was 8, same as it is WS6 these days.

[dienekes96]

It has been made very clear that some believe Mephiston is overpowered. Got it. The point has been made. The Codex is printed. It's done.

[AmasNagol]

Someone with access to the codex, can we get a photograph of Seth and some Flesh Tearers? Please. Go on! I would give you rep and stuff if we even have that on this board?

[captain of the 1st]

Originally Posted by dienekes96

It has been made very clear that some believe Mephiston is overpowered. Got it. The point has been made. The Codex is printed. It's done.

what he said.

[Arbedark]

Originally Posted by captain of the 1st

but according to the fluff when you are affected by black rage you gain some of a sanguinius' power...meph has that x10. i agree he is super hard but i think he should def be up there with abadon,calgar etc

I have no problem with him being "up there" with Calgar and Abbadon. However he is clearly MILES ahead of both of them. S6 T6 compared to S4 T4, or S4(8) T4(5)...

And one is blessed by the 4 Chaos Gods, they have imbued him with power. And he is still weaker than a Marine.

Yes, when suffering from the Black Rage you gain SOME of sanguinius' power. Sanguinius was beaten (once) by a Bloodthirster of Khorne, which means his stats should be around the stats of a Bloodthirster.

Compring Mephistons stats to a Bloodthirster, he is nearly as strong, as tough, has more wounds, higher initiative and a better save...

So yeah, silly stats for anyone except an actual Primarch, Greater Daemon, or Daemon Prince...

@ Worsle, arguing whether GH or WG are better is indeed massively OT. However the main contention isn't X cost with Y stats across armies, its Y stats for what is still a Loyalist Space Marine Character.

[massey]

Mephiston is Space Dracula. He's tougher than Abaddon. He was tougher than Abaddon in 2nd edition as well. He's always been the most powerful marine character, chaos or otherwise. So, we're all good. The king returns to reclaim his crown. Of course he's T6. You can't kill a vampire with guns.

I'm glad to see him finally return to his former glory. And I'm not a BA player.

Remember, he was a librarian, then he basically died and rose from the grave as a full-blown vampire. Strength of ten men, and all that. He's not mortal anymore. SOB is undead.

[Worsle]

Arbdark but even within loyalists chapters they are completely separate books. Sure there are similar elements but even with that the differences mean you can't just compare one unit from one book to one from an other and form a conclusion. If it was a fluff argument that is very much a different thing to a rules one and really quite subjective. I am much more interested in getting a solid codex than any thing else any way, if we get that the fluff can go sit in a corner and mope for all I care.

[Scryer in the Darkness]

Originally Posted by iseeleadpeople

Any better pics of the death company sprue yet?

More detailed detailios care of the CoolGuysWhoSitAtHome (who so outgush BeastsofWar that I'm sure my HDD is damp from playing their vids. It's just a shame they don't seem to know any technical details, like not recognising a hand flamer, not spelling "sprue" correctly and basically screwing up all the titlecards on their vid ):

Vanguard Veteran Sergeant


Death Company


Sanguinary Guard


Codex

[Azzy]

@Arbedark:
Please drop it. If you want to continue this, start a thread in General.

[MajorWesJanson]

Hmm, Overcome the Black Rage, imbued with the power of Sanguinus, a primarch (all of whom had massive psychic potential and were Created by the Emperor). If the Emperor is essentially a warp god with a mortal avatar, that makes the Primarchs like his daemon princes, imbued with some of his power. Mepheston and St. Celestine are just more Daemon princes of the Emperor, with things like the LotD as Lesser Daemons of the Emperor.


Those Axes on the SG sprue are probably the best looking CC weapon for marines GW has ever made. Can't wait to integrate them into my chapter.

[captain of the 1st]

the shoulder pads on the dc/as squad sprues are amazing! i cant wait for these...hmmm dc tycho leading some dc...

[Arbedark]

Originally Posted by Worsle

Arbdark but even within loyalists chapters they are completely separate books. Sure there are similar elements but even with that the differences mean you can't just compare one unit from one book to one from an other and form a conclusion. If it was a fluff argument that is very much a different thing to a rules one and really quite subjective. I am much more interested in getting a solid codex than any thing else any way, if we get that the fluff can go sit in a corner and mope for all I care.

So suddenly if all Black Templars got S7 T7 that would be fine? Since it's a seperate codex. Assuming they were pointed correctly.

Originally Posted by Azzy

@Arbedark:
Please drop it. If you want to continue this, start a thread in General.

Is this thread not for discussion of the new Blood Angel codex?

Is the silly statline of S6 T6 for Mephiston in the new Blood Angel codex?

Since the answer to both these questions is yes, and I am discussing Mephistons new (ridiculous) stats, no I shall not start a new thread in 40k General Discussion.

[Aenarion]

Thanks to all those who have posted pics of the new mini's, looks like my wallet is going to take a serious beating in April.

[AmasNagol]

Brilliant, there's 2 Melta Pistols AND 2 Hand Flamers on the sprue.

[Keldaur]

Originally Posted by Arbedark

Sanguinius was beaten (once) by a Bloodthirster of Khorne, which means his stats should be around the stats of a Bloodthirster.

Hmm, if you are speaking about Terra he beaten dozens of them before the Uber one. And even Horus refer to him as the most skilled combatant out of all of the primarchs due to his psychic powers enhancing him, and when he is trying to rally the primarchs in the HH he knows he can't best Sanguinius at that moment. And if you are speaking about the other one, because the bloodthirster killed 500 blood angels and the psychic shockwave is too much for Sanguinius, and the reason he does the psychic attack against the normal Blood Angels, is that Sanguinius royally messes up the Daemon before his legs are injured.

Totally OT, but your point is wrong. Even Grey knights had killed Bloodthirsters being mere mortals.

[iseeleadpeople]

Originally Posted by Scryer in the Darkness

More detailed detailios care of the CoolGuysWhoSitAtHome (who so outgush BeastsofWar that I'm sure my HDD is damp from playing their vids. It's just a shame they don't seem to know any technical details, like not recognising a hand flamer, not spelling "sprue" correctly and basically screwing up all the titlecards on their vid ):

Vanguard Veteran Sergeant
Attachment 83505 Attachment 83506 Attachment 83507

Death Company
Attachment 83499 Attachment 83500 Attachment 83498

Sanguinary Guard
Attachment 83501 Attachment 83502

Codex
Attachment 83508 Attachment 83503

cheers scryer!